Greenland’s surface has been gaining about 3.5 billion tons of ice per day since the first of September. This is about 50% above normal.
Greenland Ice Sheet Surface Mass Budget: DMI
This is occurring just as global land temperatures are cooling at a record rate.
www.woodfortrees.org/data/rss-land/
Meanwhile government funded experts fraudsters are telling the press that Greenland is melting at catastrophic speed.
Alert! Greenland’s Ice Now Melting At Catastrophic Speed : News : Nature World News
One of the top priorities of the Trump administration should be to root those responsible for this fraud out of government.
Sounds like lake effect snow to me……
The Atlantic Lake effect???
arctic
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Oh, another proof of extreme weather. This is caused by AGW. /sarc.
Anyway, SMB being positive hardly solves the question of total mass balance including calving. As far as I know, even under the worst and most unrealistic RCP 8.5 scenario, Greenland ice sheet takes at least hundreds of years to melt.
Basically day-to-day or year-to-year following “new melt records” is rather moot. And now we have, not a melt record but an unmelt record.
oops. in moderation. sorry for the misshit.
Well, possibly—but not as the “experts” predict.
I’ve been looking at how long-term warming/cooling cycles oscillate and would like to see more research into how warming switches over into cooling, i.e. the Vostok ice core record. It stands to reason that as the planet warms, the Hadley cell turnover moves farther north and with it, an increase in associated atmospheric humidity. Cold outbreaks combined with increased precipitation events certainly will lead to a rebuilding of higher latitude ice fields and if sufficiently large over a prolonged period of time, the increase in high latitude albedo would further decrease solar insolation. Wash, rinse, repeat, new ice age.
Not coincidentally, Robert over at iceagenow.info theorizes the same mechanism. But it has nothing to do with our thirst for fossil fuels, that’s for sure.
That could be worse. I mean, some AGW is OK, but NGW with a large, negative lagged feedback is much worse for our children.
No sarc this time.
wert, I get what you’re saying but I think Tony is countering the alarmist articles where they grossly exaggerate Greenland ice melt in a short period. That’s all.
I was looking at this myself today, and cross-correlated with the average. Our current SMB ( ~250 GT) roughly matches the late December accumulation, and that is is inspiring!
The late December average, that is.
Paging Jim Hunt, will Jim Hunt please go to the white courtesy phone. Paging Jim Hunt.
please, no, there are more than enough clueless twerps on the other thread !!
“The White Zone is for loading & unloading.
The Yellow Zone is for ….”
Unless I can’t interpret the woodfortrees link,The link with the data doesn’t match the RSS graph
It does, you just have to read the title of the graph.
It is 8 months since the peak of the El Nino so TH is looking at all 8 month changes in the RSS record.
Here is the similar graph for UAH land.
As you can see there is that similar very big change
ps.. I suspect that come November data, the 9 month change will give an even more obvious drop.
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well the little ice age has started as predicted by the astrophysicists.right on schedule.the sun not co2 governs climate
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.
While the global temperature may be cooling, it has been some 18 oc warmer than usual in the Arctic over the last months. (The cold has all moved into Sibera, which is about 18 oc below normal).
I am presuming that this warmer airmass over the Arctic can hold more moisture, and so is dumping shed-loads of snow on Greenland (absolute temperatures are still -10 oc, even with the warm temps.)
Ralph
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You have the read the text associated with the dmi.dk graph.
“Over the year, it snows more than it melts, but calving of icebergs also adds to the total mass budget of the ice sheet. Satellite observations over the last decade show that the ice sheet is not in balance. The calving loss is greater than the gain from surface mass balance, and Greenland is losing mass at about 200 Gt/yr.”
http://beta.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maalinger/greenland-ice-sheet-surface-mass-budget/
Accumulation – (Melt + Caving) = 200 Gt mass loss
Total BS
Any proof for your assertion.
Check out the dmi.dk site yourself. I provided a direct quote. Here is another.
“As mentioned, satellites measuring the ice sheet mass have observed a loss of around 200 Gt/year over the last decade.”
Please provide data for this melt and carving loss.
Or don’t, and prove you are a fool.
http://polarportal.dk/en/groenlands-indlandsis/nbsp/isens-overflade/
Absolutely NOTHING on that page, Jack all
Data. or NOT.
And for you education, if you are capable of being educated…
here is a graph of the Total Greenland Ice Mass since 1900
If you think it is not correct, please provide a corrected graph or STFU.
Source? A Google search reveals nothing
Andy, you better provide a google-searchable source for your post-doctorate mathematics work on orders of magnitude and graph scaling.
Then again, Jack was promised there would be no math, so Cliff’s Notes may be more practical so he can go out and play.
Several different methods have been used to monitor the mass balance of the Greenland ice sheet. The overall conclusion of all available studies is that Greenland is losing mass (Figure 1). Average ice loss increased from 34 (uncertainty interval: –6 to 74) billion tonnes per year over the period 1992–2001 to 215 (157 to 274) billion tonnes per year over the period 2002–2011. In 2012, an exceptional loss estimated at more than 500 billion tonnes was recorded. From 1992 to 2012, the contribution to the global sea level has been estimated to have been approximately 8.0 mm (6.6 to 9.4 mm) [ii]. In 2013–2015, the net loss of ice was slower than in 2012, with a total of approximately 280 billion tonnes net loss over the period
http://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/indicators/greenland-ice-sheet-3/assessment
Do check out Figure 1.
http://www.carbonbrief.org/media/434864/greenland-time-vs-mass_600x345.jpg
The accumulated monthly total mass balance of the Greenland ice sheet measured from satellites, relative to June 2006 (dotted line). This curve ends in April 2015 at the end of the accumulation season. Source: Barletta et al. 2013.
The source for the post below (https://realclimatescience.com/2016/11/greenland-blowing-away-all-records-for-ice-growth-2/#comment-36839)
A guest post from climate scientists Dr Ruth Mottram and Dr Peter Langen from the Danish Meteorological Institute.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-the-state-of-the-greenland-ice-sheet-in-2015
Jack says: “Do check out figure 1”
NASA says Antarctica GAINED ice during the period outlined in figure 1.
Greenland has been losing ice since the LIA:
“the rate of retreat of glaciers that terminated on land in Greenland underwent a more rapid retreat in the 1930s than in the 2000s”
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses
https://www.wunderground.com/climate/greenland.asp?MR=1
That is how to “hide the decline.”
No graph, just some science
A study published in Nature that used the photographs found that the Greenland ice sheet lost about 9,000 gigatons of ice between 1900 and 2010 and that the rate has accelerated in recent years. The reduction in the ice mass has contributed to global average sea-level rise of 25 millimeters.
http://www.nature.com/articles/nature16183.epdf?referrer_access_token=TSZXh4e0E9y1CO_c3njevtRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0MO3G_E31TGVUtb-at7nrYLDYiw_Hkr-xBkeD77hVYuzbfw5H7-BVRvlokUvOPEbLXj_5HPmoPYxKSzUINncBWwc1C1BMacCV7ureMwHRj9fpDHhoG3dZiU6tDP9v53AGFOrIlYXs1msh-1VOC5QJfht4XT8B88QeNEUzuXcRmYISIpBmCBqmdhEhE1PVr_Y8R9ooVnNt_0Eo0dwoF8IhAL5CAJfEZMIzJkRFG-JhkyI-opKPVh7rqbXzyUv6SQ8bA%3D&tracking_referrer=www.scientificamerican.com
Poor Jack, yes you can show these tiddling infinitesimal anomalies.
My graph is of the Total Greenland Ice Mass.
Produce a graph that shows mine is incorrect….
….. or if you are INCAPABLE.. Then Don’t.
Easy peasy.
Until then.. You are nothing but a semi-empty sack of shit.
Andy – Until you provide the source of this data and graph, it simply shows that you know how to use a straight edge.
I have shown a graph that shows yours is incorrect. here is another
https://robertscribbler.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/greenland_mass_balance.gif?w=600
What part of
“the Greenland ice sheet lost about 9,000 gigatons of ice between 1900 and 2010”
do you not understand’?
Your IGNORANCE continues to show.
That is an anomaly…
tiny and irrelevant
sort of like your brain.
produce a graph that shows my graph of Greenland Total Ice Mass is incorrect.
or STFU !!!
Jack, your cited “Greenland ice sheet lost about 9,000 gigatons of ice” would not amount to a pimple on the total Greenland ice mass (~2,600,000 gigatons). A graph of the Greenland total ice mass from 1900 to 2010 (and beyond) would look like a straight line (as AndyG55 posted).
Still waiting for evidence that current melt rate is unprecedented in recent geologic history (~15K years?).
gees pmc, ya gave the game away.
You’re no fun ;-)
For your further education.
Greenland sits on a volcanic region. Moving magma under the surface causes huge gravity fluctuations.
The so-called mass loss is measured using the GRACE (Gravity based) system
Grace was proven monumentally WRONG over Antarctica, almost certainly because of the volcanic activity under the Antarctic.. especially the Western Peninsula.
In other words, the measurement is HIGHLY suspect.
So, find some other data.. Or DON’T.!
DMI uses CryoSat data.
Data.. you have produced none.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/2016GL069666/asset/image_n/grl54619-fig-0002.png?v=1&t=iy6ipwqa&s=09330d27b1e34c51d14dda98e5d396f05787136f
“We map recent Greenland Ice Sheet elevation change at high spatial (5 km) and temporal (monthly) resolution using CryoSat-2 altimetry. After correcting for the impact of changing snowpack properties associated with unprecedented surface melting in 2012, we find good agreement (3 cm/yr bias) with airborne measurements. With the aid of regional climate and firn modeling, we compute high spatial and temporal resolution records of Greenland mass evolution, which correlate (R = 0.96) with monthly satellite gravimetry and reveal glacier dynamic imbalance. During 2011–2014, Greenland mass loss averaged 269 ± 51 Gt/yr. Atmospherically driven losses were widespread, with surface melt variability driving large fluctuations in the annual mass deficit. Terminus regions of five dynamically thinning glaciers, which constitute less than 1% of Greenland’s area, contributed more than 12% of the net ice loss. This high-resolution record demonstrates that mass deficits extending over small spatial and temporal scales have made a relatively large contribution to recent ice sheet imbalance.”
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2016GL069666/full
so a 3 year study… roflmao !!
you have GOT to be kidding. !!
Let’s look at the Total Greenland Ice Mass from 1900 to now to get a better idea of what’s actually going on.
Or we could look at the area over the longer period of the Holocene, to get some actual PERSPECTIVE.
Perspective that is totally lacking in the AGW-scam that you so worship, even though it is well into zombie stage.
Perhaps you could even explain why the SMB was more less in the 1940’s despite there being no anti-CO2-scam
We HAVE read the DMI site.
In August 2015 DMI had:
“Greenland Accumulates a Massive 200 Gigatonne of Snow and Ice in 2015″
However the site has since been ‘corrected’ to be more ‘politically correct’
(wwwDOT)dmi.dk/en/groenland/maalinger/greenland-ice-sheet-surface-mass-budget/
………………
Why has Antarctic lost land ice (only in certain areas)
Researchers Find Major West Antarctic Glacier Melting from Geothermal Sources
Antarctica Active Volcano found beneath the ice
Frezzotti, M., Scarchilli, C., Becagli, S., Proposito, M., and Urbini S. (2013) A synthesis of the Antarctic surface mass balance during the last 800 yr The Cryosphere, 7, 303-319, doi:10.5194/tc-7-303-2013
Final Paper (PDF) http://www.the-cryosphere.net/7/303/2013/tc-7-303-2013.pdf
Δ solar spectrum==> Δ Ozone ==> Δ THE BREWER-DOBSON CIRCULATION ==> Δ Regional atmospheric circulation ==> Δ windiness ==> Δ wind driven Antarctic Circumpolar Current ==> Δ Antarctic ice ==> Δ ENSO (El Nino/La Nina )
Go educate yourself:
THE BREWER-DOBSON CIRCULATION
Regional atmospheric circulation shifts induced by a grand solar minimum
An explanation of the connection between wind and the Antarctic Circumpolar Current by a Phd Physicist.
link
“A team of researchers looked at the solar influence on Southern Hemisphere Westerly Winds (SWW). These winds influence rainfall patterns and ocean currents in the Southern Hemisphere…. The end result is they find that the westerly winds shift northwards towards the equator during lower solar activity, and conversely move southwards towards the poles during higher solar activity. The shifting wind patterns move the rainfall. An effect is apparent in records for the last 3,000 years.”
link
Oh, and it is the ANTARCTIC not the arctic that determines glaciation.
Effect of the Drake Passage on the Cenozoic Glaciation of Antarctica
Effect of Drake Passage on the global thermohaline circulation
Decadal Changes of Wind Stress over the Southern Ocean Associated with Antarctic Ozone Depletion.
Orbitally paced shifts in the particle size of Antarctic continental shelf sediments in response to ice dynamics during the Miocene climatic optimum
Gail
A search on your claim:
“We HAVE read the DMI site.
In August 2015 DMI had:
“Greenland Accumulates a Massive 200 Gigatonne of Snow and Ice in 2015″”
reveals exactly one hit.
“1 result (0.63 seconds)
Search Results
#TalkAboutIt: Climate change sceptics versus the scientists (correcting …
joannenova.com.au/…/talkaboutit-climate-change-sceptics-versus-the-scientists-correct…
Aug 25, 2015 – … 2015 at 8:59 am. A headline you will not see in popular press: “Greenland Accumulates a Massive 200 Gigatonne of Snow and Ice in 2015″.
Jack, if you are not aware of Winston Smith’s job. I suggest you read 1984.
We see changes WITHOUT notation all the time. One of the reasons we now take screen shots.
Let’s see your screenshots, please.
Gail – are you Winston Smith? Waiting on screenshots.
Still waiting for screenshots.
Still waiting for a graph that shows this graph is incorrect for Greenland Total Ice Mass.
If you haven’t got the ability to produce one, you really should stop making a fool of yourself.
Still waiting for the verification of the data in that “graph”.
Until that is done I can only assume that it is totally unmitigated cow dung.
Still waiting for you to show where it is incorrect.
Can you .. or NOT.!
Very pathetic of you..
The data is everywhere, you even keep pointing to some of it.
You just have to be intelligent enough to figure out how to use it.
Waiting… waiting…
pmc47025 Says
“Greenland has been losing ice since the LIA”
You had better tell Tony that. His headline says otherwise.
I have not said anything about the Antarctic. But Greenland ice sheet losses far outweigh Antarctic ice sheet gains.
https://nsidc.org/sites/nsidc.org/files/images/cryosphere/sotc/shepherd2012merge.png
The headline looks accurate to me. Your link to figure 1 shows Greenland and Antarctic ice “loss”. According to NASA, the Antarctic part of figure 1 is wrong, doesn’t give me much confidence in the Greenland chart.
Tony forgot to account for calving and ocean melt.
Data.. do you have any.. or NOT. !!
The satellite data account for ocean melt and caving.
The SBM is based on modelling and odes not do so.
Read this from the good folks at DMI
https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-the-state-of-the-greenland-ice-sheet-in-2015
carbon briefs.. lol
Get a serious reference.
GRACE is gravity based and was proven monumentally WRONG over Antarctica.
DMI is using ESA data from CryoSat, not GRACE.
http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/CryoSat/CryoSat_reveals_recent_Greenland_ice_loss
Did you bother to read the carbon brief interview with the folks from DMI?
They explain that the SMB graph used by Tony above is based on modelling using a very few number of stations and does not account for calving and ocean melt.
The Heartland / CATO / Heritage fossil fuel scam just got a kick start.
Jack,
I don’t think (?) anybody is arguing the posted headline and chart include ocean melt and calving. DMI has measured Greenland SMB the same way (hopefully) for several years running, and, this year, Greenland is gaining ice faster than any other charted year. How is that possible with CO2 at incredibly high (0.04% vs 0.028%) levels?
Any evidence showing the 2000s melt is more, uh, severe than previous melt cycles?
Also waiting for Jack Ass to divest his life from all thing fossil fuel.
Maybe he should stop eating all food with carbon in them, as well.
Fossil fuels built the world’s developed countries, wind and solar are environmentally and economicall destroying them
But in the USA at least the renewables anti-CO2 scam IS OVER. :-)
Sanity has prevailed.
If I wanted propaganda pap, I would read sewers like carbonbreifs.
I want facts, like the facts as shown on the Greenland Total Ice Mass graph…
which, incidentally, you have proven you cannot contradict… because you aren’t even bright enough to figure out what it means.
Homer Simpson has nothing on Jack Ass when it comes to DUMB. !!
DMI says:
” The calving loss is greater than the gain from surface mass balance, and Greenland is losing mass at about 200 Gt/yr.”
http://beta.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maalinger/greenland-ice-sheet-surface-mass-budget/
Meanwhile you claim:
“Greenland is gaining ice faster than any other charted year.”
““Greenland is gaining ice faster than any other charted year.””
Which is TOTALLY CORRECT, it is.
Do you have data for this year that shows calving and melt loss.
Again , I await a graph/data for Greenland Total Ice Mass that shows my graph is incorrect.
Either produce one, or DON’T, and be shown a fool.
Cow dung until data verification is provided.
So you admit you can’t actually do the maths needed to VERIFY my graph.
So hilarious..
You will forever be marked as a mathematically inept fool.
Congratulations. :-)
You are so DUMB that you don’t even realise what the graph is telling you.
So sad.. so pathetically ignorant. :-)
Waiting for you to correct my graph.. or keep running away.
Look at the chart and compare this year with previous years. Are you a moron or a bot (or both)?
Given that it doesn’t include ice losses by calving icebergs and ocean melting, the surface mass budget (SMB) is usually strongly positive at the end of the year. 2015 was no exception – gaining around 220bn tonnes of new ice – but this is below the average of about 290bn tonnes. In the record year in 2012, the surface mass balance at the end of the year was approximately zero.
The surface mass balance (SMB) isn’t the full story, of course. To calculate the total mass balance, we will need to wait for the satellite results to gauge how much ice has been lost through calving icebergs and ocean melt.
Satellite observations over the past decade show that the calving loss is greater than the gain from surface mass balance – and Greenland is losing mass at about 250bn tonnes per year.
Here is a graph of the Greenland Total Ice Mass since 1900..
You have yet to provide a corrected graph if you think it is wrong.
Keep avoiding Jack Ass.
Any comment on why glaciers retreated faster in the 1930s than the 2000s? Maybe the peak melts are part of a multi-decade cycle (hint hint) and CO2 actually inhibited the melting in the 2000s – seems at least as plausible as some of the alarmist BS I’ve read.
Clarification:
Any comment on why [Greenland] glaciers retreated faster in the 1930s
North America did have regional hot spell in the 1930’s. The rest of the earth did not.
http://myweb.wwu.edu/dbunny/pdfs/CO2_past-century.pdf
The whole Northern hemisphere did. Why are you continuing to post mis-information.
THE SCAM IS OVER..
…. you don’t need to do it any more.
It looks like the dbunny pdf I linked has a graph labeled “global temperature”, looks more like US temperatures (NH) when comparing to other web sources.
Jack Dale says:
“North America did have regional hot spell in the 1930’s. The rest of the earth did not.”
Bovine Feces!
The ClimAstrologists LIE by omission!
Forgotten: Historic hot temperatures recorded with detail and care in Adelaide [Australia]
Note the spike in the Adelaide record for the 1930-40s
This Don Easterbrook?
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/06/02/don-easterbrook-caught-in-a-li/
deltoid.. propaganda pap,
Easterbrook corrected a graph and removed all the mis-information.
I am invoking Mark Twain’s axiom
http://tinyurl.com/c7zej7q
We don’t like having to argue with stupid people, but you keep coming here.
But you will not wear us down.
Have you figured out any correction to this graph yet ???
Or are you too stupid??
People who say things like “I am invoking Mark Twain’s axiom” are usually insufferable dumb pricks. The rest of us don’t “invoke an axiom” when we quote someone’s humorous insight.
And through all his furious commenting he didn’t show a single sign that he understood your graph, did he? Or did I miss it?
Nope.. he remains wilfully UNAWARE.
Quite bizarre really, Its not as if enough hints weren’t given.
Oh well, you can lead an alarmista to fact…
… but you can’t make it comprehend.
While you are at it, you can explain this graph, which looks at the longer history of Greenland ice area, and explain how it supports the AGW warming scam.
Also the actual COOLING of Greenland temperature from 1930 to 1990
And the Greenland temperatures over the Holocene, which clearly show we are in a cold period.