Increase In Multi-Year Ice Over The Past Decade

CNN and NASA claim that the amount of multi-year ice in the Arctic is decreasing and at a record low.

Old ice is vanishing – CNN.com

As always, they are lying. There is more multi-year ice now than there was 10 years ago.

2/4/2007

2/4/2017

Eight years ago, one of Canada’s top experts said that multi-year ice is “effectively gone.”

Multiyear Arctic ice is effectively gone: expert | Reuters

There would be a lot more multi-year ice now, but large winter like storms broke up the ice in the Beaufort Sea both of the last two summers.

Government funded climate scientists and CNN reporters lie about essentially everything. They are running the biggest scam in science history. Under the Trump administration, government employees stand to make huge amounts of money by whistleblowing fraud. Contact Kent Clizbe for details.

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137 Responses to Increase In Multi-Year Ice Over The Past Decade

  1. eliza says:

    More drivel from Zeke https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-mail-sundays-astonishing-evidence-global-temperature-rise
    Notice how the Whistleblower’s name or status at NOAA is not mentioned clear proof of bias.

  2. Rich says:

    Source for the data?

  3. Griff says:

    The charts posted here do not show how old the MYI ice is…

    In 2017 there is very little 3, 4 and 5 year old ice – and what there is is often broken and thin.

    And they don’t show the situation before 2006 – to which in a decade we have not recovered.

    This is a better, accurate summary of the situation:
    https://www.climate.gov/news-features/videos/old-ice-arctic-vanishingly-rare

    “In 1985, 16% of the ice pack (relative to the total sea ice areal coverage) was four years old and older, but by March 2016 old ice only constituted 1.2% of the ice pack. First-year ice now dominates the ice cover, comprising about 78% of the March 2016 ice pack, compared to about 55% in the 1980s.”

    The situation in Febrary 2017 is not very different… most of the thickest ice looks like exiting the Fram strait before the end of winter.

    • wert says:

      “In 1985, 16% of the ice pack (relative to the total sea ice areal coverage) was four years old and older, but by March 2016 old ice only constituted 1.2% of the ice pack. First-year ice now dominates the ice cover, comprising about 78% of the March 2016 ice pack, compared to about 55% in the 1980s.”

      Take a look at http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

      It says nothing about old ice, and nothing about January. Why? If there is nothing bad to say, they will keep their mouth shut.

      (I think the current -6C here is pretty cold, I could switch with you.)

      • Sunsettommy says:

        Griff, uses a very different baseline from what Tony used. That is what I objected too.

        He starts in 1985,while Tony starts in 2006. Tony is correct in his presentation that from a LOW point in 2006,there is an increase in Multi-year ice by 2017. Griff completely avoided the accurate point, Tony made.

        Tony, a couple years ago,showed what happened to all that Multi-year ice of the 1980’s. He showed that the main loss from late 1980’s to late 1990’s, was due to wind patterns that flushed out a lot of older ice, during the WINTER time.

        It is a typically dishonest leftist warmist tactic they use.

    • Sunsettommy says:

      Griff,

      Tony made this post 4 1/2 years ago showing the big loss of older ice:

      The Dirty Little Secret About Arctic Ice

      https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/09/23/the-dirty-little-secret-about-arctic-ice/

      He long reported the older ice loss years ago, Griff.

      Now will you properly address this posts content?

      • Griff says:

        I will – see my link above about how ice thickens in the Beaufort Gyre, moves into the central arctic then is expelled through the Fram Strait. At least that’s what used to happen…

        Now the Beaufort nearly clear melts each summer so little ice from it survives into a second year. The MYI formation mechanism is broke. Now ice exits the Fram and is not replaced.

        further this year has seen record high air temps over the central arctic, with a succession of storms bringing warm damp air. There has not been heat loss at the ‘old’ rate. The ice has not thickened. The snow has further insulated the ice and reduced bottom freezing. The storms have broken up the ice.

        The ice never even froze around Svalbard… the ice in the Kara and Bering Strait has ebbed and flowed – it is thin and broken.

        In short, this ice looks likely, short of extreme conditions from now till the start of the melt season and short of a poor melt season , to produce a record low. Below 2012.

        Even if some happen chance does not produce even an average melt season, it won’t recover beyond last years level.

        • Sunsettommy says:

          Griff,

          I have seen your link,didn’t dispute it at all.

          What YOU O’ brainless one,is miss the FREAKING obvious that Tony was talking about a TEN year period from February 4,2007 to February 4,2017.

          He backed the Sea ice charts up with links,which you have yet to acknowledge.

          You never disputed Tony’s post at all,just skirt around with a totally different start point back to the mid 1980’s,which Tony talked about FOUR years ago,in a post, about rapid Multi year sea ice loss,starting in the mid 1980’s. The FOUR YEAR old Post,Tony made with a link,showing he covered that long ago.

          You finally get it…….?

          Stop being so gosh darn stupid!

  4. Sunsettommy says:

    You are that dumb,Griff?

    Tony specifically states:

    “As always, they are lying. There is more multi-year ice now than there was 10 years ago.”

    Then he backs it up with data. Your reply doesn’t even address what Tony said at all.

    You are a joke,Griff.

    • Stewart Pid says:

      Griff ain’t funny enough to be a joke … more like a steaming pile of you know what.

    • Griff says:

      And I think I showed you the data which contradicts Tony.

      The sea ice extent is still at a record low level – second lowest ever recorded for this time of year. It is of record thinness. It is of record low volume. The temperature at Svalbard has been 4 degrees C within the last week (while it is still dark).

      This ice is, sadly, not recovering.

      • AndyG55 says:

        “This ice is, sadly, not recovering.”

        Yes it is.

        It recovering to the lower levels of the most of the Holocene before the LIA.

        Or are going to continue being a CLIMATE CHANGE DENIER?

        Unfortunately the very slightly lower area this year is to do with the wobbly Jet Stream trapping a “less cold” bubble over the Kara Sea, slowing ice gain in a very local area.. This affects absolutely nobody.

        Its the constant streams of bitterly cold air sweeping around the Northern Hemisphere that are the real problem, and that affect millions of people.

        Tell us griff , do you CARE about all those people suffering from this cold, old people DYING because of energy poverty.

        … or do you just care about a tiny irrelevant decrease in Arctic sea ice back towards the Holocene average?

        What a despicable piece of human scum you truly are.

      • gator69 says:

        This ice is, sadly, not recovering.

        Ms Griff strangely gets all teary eyed when she believes ice may be melting. But even sicker, Ms Griff helps starve 21,000 innocent humans every day, and does so with zeal.

        Why do leftists hate humanity? Is projection of their self-loathing?

        • AndyG55 says:

          The evil little cretin just DOESN’T CARE about the human cost of the jet stream cold patches in the Northern Hemisphere.

          All this evil slime cares about is a tiny loss of sea ice , that doesn’t affect anyone or anything, and is caused by a blocked weather system in one small location over the Kara Sea

          It really is a DISGUSTING way to look at the world, and could only come from a far-left activist/scammer, with their HATRED of the human race…… even themselves.

          • AndyG55 says:

            “It really is a DISGUSTING way to look at the world, and could only come from a far-left activist/scammer, with their HATRED of the human race…… even themselves.”

            cue… Jimbo the clown.

          • Griff says:

            Andy, the climate of the arctic has clearly changed.. there are totally new weather patterns up there.

            You could acknowledge that and provide a science based explanation which excludes climate change, if you like.

          • gator69 says:

            Andy, the climate of the arctic has clearly changed.. there are totally new weather patterns up there.

            Nope. Same as it ever was.

            Results indicate a decrease in sea-ice cover and a corresponding, albeit much smaller, increase in summer sea-surface temperature over the past 9000 years. Superimposed on these long-term trends are millennial-scale fluctuations characterized by periods of low sea-ice and high sea-surface temperature and salinity that appear quasi-cyclic with a frequency of about one every 2500–3000 years. The results of this study clearly show that sea-ice cover in the western Arctic Ocean has varied throughout the Holocene. More importantly, there have been times when sea-ice cover was less extensive than at the end of the 20th century.

            http://research.bpcrc.osu.edu/geo/publications/mckay_etal_CJES_08.pdf

            Why do you hate poor brown people Ms Griff?

          • AndyG55 says:

            “the climate of the arctic has clearly changed”

            DENIAL of CLIMATE CHANGE is your bag, griff

            You DENY anything except the last 40 or so years.

            DENY that there was a Little Ice Age causing massive expanse of sea ice, which the Arctic is still recovering from, 1979 being a peak year

            DENY that before that, there was a lot LESS sea ice than current

            Basically you DENY the whole history of the Arctic …

            You are probably the only CLIMATE CHANGE DENIER here.

          • AndyG55 says:

            DENYING the history of CLIMATE CHANGE is the only way the AGW scam can support itself.

            History destroys the “climate change™” scam/agenda

        • Griff says:

          Nobody is getting starved by climate science. Or me. where on earth does that come from??

          • gator69 says:

            Actually CAGW fearmongering is causing governments to misallocate funding that could save seven million lives every year. But because of you and the many others who want to push an agenda, those millions go without life saving food, water and medicine.

            And don’t take my word for it, take the word of a Nobel Laureate, and believer in man made global warming…

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtbn9zBfJSs

            Ms Griff, I have posted this info many times for you. It has become quite clear that you don’t give a flock about learning the truth, in fact, it is obvious that you would prefer to hide behind your lies while you continue to snuff out thousands of poor brown people daily.

          • RAH says:

            Malaria kills more people than any other disease now, just as it has throughout mans history and it’s completely preventable. Starvation is completely preventable. Clean potable water is the single greatest need for the underdeveloped nations of the world. Had the money used on “climate change” been properly apportioned and used for those maladies/problems a lot more people would be alive today and the reduction in human suffering that would result stupendous.

          • AndyG55 says:

            “Nobody is getting starved by climate science. ”

            Now you are definitely in DENIAL, griff

            You can run and hide in your inner city basement, sneaking out for the occasion soy decafe.

            But REALITY is different.

            The AGW agenda is causing pain and human suffering around the world.

    • Griff says:

      but he does not prove ‘they’ are lying.

      • Colorado Wellington says:

        Ms. Griff, are you at least getting paid, making a fool of yourself and hustling for these people who don’t give a damn about you?

        Forgive me for being so direct with a lady but you are a sucker if you don’t pull a little bit of cash for this.

        • Griff says:

          I am not a MS, as it happens.

          I could post the snapchat evidence I suppose: one understands US male politicians frequently do…

      • Sunsettommy says:

        Griff,

        idiotically claims without evidence:

        “but he does not prove ‘they’ are lying.”

        Yes he does,but you are terrible are reading Tony’s posts.

        Quoting lines you manage to miss:

        “CNN and NASA claim that the amount of multi-year ice in the Arctic is decreasing and at a record low.”

        Backs it up with a source.

        and,

        “Eight years ago, one of Canada’s top experts said that multi-year ice is “effectively gone.”

        Backs it up with a source.

        Then he effectively show a INCREASE in multiple year ice from 2007 to 2017.

        Backs it up with Source.

        You offer lies and bullcrap.

        You are once again exposed as a world class idiot!

        • Griff says:

          And I backed my statements up with a link showing evidence from scientists who actually observe the ice.

          Recent evidence.

          Here’s another story covering this:
          https://insideclimatenews.org/news/09012017/arctic-antarctica-sea-ice-climate-change-noaa-nasa-trump

          • Sunsettommy says:

            Wow!

            You are now a proven world class moron,since the time frame is a TEN YEAR period,that Tony brought up. You never discuss that time frame at all,which is appropriate since that was the LOW point in the decade to show that it has rebounded some.

            You on the other hand have used TWO different time scales,that are not even close to Tony’s Ten years. Therefore you still have not addressed his post at all.

            Thirdly, you are caterwauling over a short term weather event,that has happened before. While it is very cold all over the Northern Hemisphere,because of the Meridional Jet stream flow.

            You are a dishonest person for claiming that Tony is wrong,without addressing what he actually said.

            How old are you,Griff?

          • AndyG55 says:

            “Here’s another story covering this::”

            Story? more like a fairy tale or science-fantasy.

            A propaganda pap opinion piece at best.

            There is one small area in the Kara Sea that is being affected by a continuing weather pattern.

            And Arctic sea ice everywhere else is doing just fine, so much so , that multi year ice has increased over the last 10 years.

            Why are you SO MORONIC as to link a very localise , but stuck WEATHER pattern with AGW.

            You have ZERO proof, NOTHING,

            just empty baseless rhetoric and arm flapping.

            And considering the damage and suffering around the world from the AGW anti-CO₂ agenda, that is pretty sickening, and ultimately quite evil.

    • Gail Combs says:

      Griffy’s problem is she is from NYC Shocker: 80% of NYC graduates unable to read

    • Gail Combs says:

      Griffy, doesn’t believe Punxsutawney Phil either.

      • RAH says:

        That’s because Phil has a much better record with his long range winter forecast than the true believing “scientists” have with their climate forecasts.

        • Colorado Wellington says:

          Ms Griff has a point, RAH. Punxsutawney Phil, the old racist, has been rumored to root for Brady, Belichick and Trump, white nationalists the whole lot.

  5. Gator says:

    WARNING: OT

    Who in the Hell blows a 25 point lead?

    Oh yeah…

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ibtimes.co.uk/hillary-clinton-gets-25-point-lead-donald-trump-latest-poll-1576340

    PS – If you know any Falcon Fans who voted for Cankles, be kind and send them non-aggressive stuffed animals and crayons with no labels. You might also want to have the authorities do a wellness check.

  6. Steve Case says:

     
     
     

                                               Good one!
     
     
     

  7. AndyG55 says:

    Holy Crap..

    Look at the FREEZING COLD ANOMALY over Alaska, Canada, and Northern Europe /Russia.

    This is DANGEROUS to the millions that live in these regions.

    Yet we have HATEFUL people like griff the moron, Jimbo the con-man, and others, worrying about a small warm patch in the Kara sea area, slowing sea ice formation.

    These guys really are the absolute very base-level of human slime and IGNORANCE..

    • Gail Combs says:

      I think I spotted Griffy and Jimmy Boy in this photo!

      • Griff says:

        And thus you refute my science based evidence of the actual state of arctic sea ice!

        I will post some kittens which also prove climate change, as well as the science, if you like.

        • gator69 says:

          Science says there is more ice in the Arctic now than the average of the past 9000 years.

          Results indicate a decrease in sea-ice cover and a corresponding, albeit much smaller, increase in summer sea-surface temperature over the past 9000 years. Superimposed on these long-term trends are millennial-scale fluctuations characterized by periods of low sea-ice and high sea-surface temperature and salinity that appear quasi-cyclic with a frequency of about one every 2500–3000 years. The results of this study clearly show that sea-ice cover in the western Arctic Ocean has varied throughout the Holocene. More importantly, there have been times when sea-ice cover was less extensive than at the end of the 20th century.

          http://research.bpcrc.osu.edu/geo/publications/mckay_etal_CJES_08.pdf

          What is your point Ms Griff? Going for eight million this year?

          • Griff says:

            The times at which sea ice was low were when the earth’s orbit tilted the N hemisphere fully toward the sun during the summer -one phase of a Milankovitch cycle.

            That effect is not in operation today, yet we clearly see the lowest sea ice level since the Eemian.

            We clearly see less sea ice in this cycle than at any point in the 20s through 40s iteration.

          • Gator says:

            Bullshit Ms Griff.

            Are you afraid to pull the trigger yourself? Is this why you use pseudo-science to kill poor brown people?

          • AndyG55 says:

            “That effect is not in operation today, yet we clearly see the lowest sea ice level since the Eemian.”

            What a load of monuMENTAL steaming BULLSHIT !!

          • AndyG55 says:

            Arrctic sea ice is nowhere near the summer ice free of much of the first 3/4 of the Holocene.

            You are LYING through your arse, yet again, griff.

            You are a LIAR, and an anti-human piece of slime.

        • Sunsettommy says:

          Griff,

          as usual you whine over a weather event of several weeks,while ignoring the many times posted published research, that today’s Ice cap is much larger than average, for the current inter glacial period.

          Gator, posted another example here that you will ignore,because you are warmist cult moron.

        • AndyG55 says:

          Griff, is just a low-life, low-intellect, anti-human, Climate Change DENIER.

        • pmc47025 says:

          Griff, you appear to be completely immune to logic, common sense, and evidence. Your “my science based evidence” statement gave me a chuckle, thanks.

          • Griff says:

            Glad to be of service.

            Why are people getting so worked up at being contradicted by evidence, do you know?

          • pmc47025 says:

            Griff, I don’t know why you get so worked up when contradicted by evidence (increasing multi-year-ice area for example).

          • AndyG55 says:

            You have produce ZERO evidence of anything except a know weather even.

            Nada.. EMPTY.. SOULLESS.

          • AndyG55 says:

            typo correction

            You have produce ZERO evidence of anything except a known weather event.

    • Gail Combs says:

      Jimmy Boy,
      In Jolly Ole’ England…

    • Griff says:

      Ironically your posted chart illustrates the 50 degree F over the North Pole.

      If that isn’t an anomaly and a clear sign of climate change… ???

      • gator69 says:

        What kind of idiot thinks climates are stable? Oh, yeah. A genocidal idiot.

      • Colorado Wellington says:

        Ms. Griff! How do you do?

        Have you been watching daytime TV science shows again?

        • Griff says:

          And exceptional record warmth at the North Pole.

          It is more extraordinary to have above freezing temps in the dead of the winter night at the North Pole than to have this ‘exceptional’ cold weather event.

          • AndyG55 says:

            “to have above freezing temps “.

            North Pole is currently around -30ºC, just like most of Russia, Alaska and Canada

            You are a LYING piece of human excrement, griff.

      • RAH says:

        It’s not a sign of anything but weather! Geez that is like saying that the forecast high of 61 F we have here in Central Indiana for today is an indication that winter is over. Never mind the fact that the forecast for tomorrow is snow for tomorrow.

        It takes a particular kind of blindness to have lived on this planet for a time and not noticed that when a cold front approaches it often pushes the warm air in front of it and thus it is often the warmest just before it gets cold or at least much cooler.

        In a way the planet is just like the human body. Certain areas in the body that are very vascular and have little or no fat radiate the bodies heat most effectivly. Your forehead uncovered by hair is one of those places. Think of the planets poles as it’s foreheads and the atmosphere as the fat and a various currents running towards or around the poles as blood vessels. The atmosphere is thinnest at the poles and there are the various currents carrying warm water from the tropics towards the poles or around them. Thus that is where the heat is most efficiently radiated to space.

        • Griff says:

          When the weather sets in into a new pattern over months and yeas, then it is more than just weather.

          Svalbard has seen 75 straight months of abnormally high weather, unseasonal rain, lack of sea ice.

          • AndyG55 says:

            YAWN !!!

            Like that never happened before the Little Ice age

            You are DENYING CLIMATE CHANGE, yet again, griff

            You TOTAL IGNORANCE of Climate History makes you look more and more like an uneducated moron with each post you make.

          • RAH says:

            OH, so the whole Arctic is at Svalbard now?
            Haven’t you ever noticed that global “climate change” is constantly moving around? Today at Svalbard, tomorrow somewhere else, the next day somewhere else. You people have been chasing a ghost for years because the hypothesis was falsified when the permanent upper tropospheric “hot spot” never showed. You remind me of people that watch “Ghost Adventures” and “Chasing Big Foot” and take it to heart. Walking around in the dark jumping at every little sound and feeling. Always chasing spirits and strange creatures but never producing hard evidence of their existence but still forever claiming that their out there and will be found.
            And what is “abnormally high weather”?

          • AndyG55 says:

            One small patch which has been almost constantly under the “less cold anomaly”

            As you can see, the rest of the Arctic is its normal FROZEN WASTELAND

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            And what is “abnormally high weather”?

            RAH,

            Poor Ms Griff got it all mixed up and had to run back to her burning chicken anyway but I can answer your question.

            This is high weather any way I look at it:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3nbehfHbDc

      • Sunsettommy says:

        No it is WEATHER,which has happened before.

        Weather and Climate are two different things.

        Climate is always in a state of Change,therefore what you write childish.

      • AndyG55 says:

        You are a MORONIC IDIOT, griff. .

        The WEATHER event of the wobbly Jet Stream is an absolutely normal, variation of the climate up there. Nothing to do with “Climate Change™” with a trade mark.

        And NO-ONE lives there, so it doesn’t matter, and even if Arctic sea ice along the Russian coast does drop to a lower level, that is NOTHING BUT BENEFICIAL for all the people up there

        The place where people do live are getting many degrees BELOW normal freezing winter temperatures.

        That is dangerous.. But you just DON’T CARE do you,

        You truly are a low-life piece of human excrement, griff.

        • Griff says:

          The jet stream changes are down to a warming arctic.

          So are there beneficial effects occurring or not?

          I am puzzled as to what you actually believe is happening up there – is it recovering, getting colder or warming permanently to give beneficial effects (e.g an annually open and ice free NW passage as there has been over the last 10 years)

          I am concerned a destabilised artic circulation pattern will cause severe weather of all sorts which injures people.

          Parts of Svalbard had to be evacuated last autumn, for example, because of unusual and heavy rain events causing landslides.

          The natives of Greenland are giving up their huskies because the winter ice is unreliable. are you not concerned for their welfare?

          • AndyG55 says:

            “The jet stream changes are down to a warming arctic.”

            BULLSHIT !!

          • AndyG55 says:

            “The natives of Greenland are giving up their huskies because the winter ice is unreliable. are you not concerned for their welfare?”

            You mean they may have to live more like the Vikings?

            And wtf has giving up Huskies got to do with welfare?

            Its not like people DYING from cold due to energy poverty, is it, you slimey anti-human cretin.

          • BruceC says:

            “an annually open and ice free NW passage”

            You mean “open and ice free”like this?

          • BruceC says:

            And this?

          • BruceC says:

            And this? (BTW ….. this is a PORT!)

        • AndyG55 says:

          “an annually open and ice free NW passage as there has been over the last 10 years”

          MORE BULLSHIT !!

  8. Griff says:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/dinograndoni/arctic-sea-ice-russia?utm_term=.yeYganZ40#.iyBYJq9Py

    “By the end of the century, oil tankers and cargo ships, with only the occasional help of icebreakers, will safely ply Russia’s Arctic coast for more than half the year if global warming continues unabated, a group of Russian scientists say.

    The study, funded by the Russian government, was released by the journal Environmental Review Letters on Monday evening. It comes as a powerful North Atlantic storm is poised to smash into the Arctic Ocean for the third time this winter, perhaps pushing its temperatures above the freezing mark — also for the third time — in a year that has already set records for limited sea ice.”

    • gator69 says:

      How does this help save the 21,000 innocent humans that your alarmist priests are helping to starve to death today?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtbn9zBfJSs

      Or do you not care about poor brown people Ms Griff?

      • Griff says:

        I’m sorry but that’s just made up nonsense… no one is starving 21,000 people through acceptance or practice of climate science.

        • Gator says:

          Talk about your holocsust denier! What a POS Ms Griff is.

          Ms Griff, your denial of the leftist genocide is not surprising, your kind has been anti-human for well over a century. This genocide is not modeled, it is numbered in human corpses, thanks to the CAGW scam, and there is a special place in Hell for you Ms Griff.

          But be sure to keep up the deadly work denier of life, it makes your team look like Nazis, and makes sane people run the other direction. You will do more to destroy the fallacy known as CAGW than I could ever hope to, through your disregard for human life.

        • AndyG55 says:

          That’s it griff, run and hide, accept ZERO RESPONSIBILITY for the continued DENIAL of solid electrical power to third world countreis.

          Run in DENIAL that huge amounts of money have been totally wasted on the AGW scam, money that could have been used to help lift third worlds out of poverty and starvation

          You truly are a DISGUSTING piece of human excrement, griff.

          You are among the LOWEST OF THE LOW.

        • gofer says:

          “The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can’t let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US.
          We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are.”

          – Michael Oppenheimer,
          Environmental Defense Fund

        • gofer says:

          That is the goal…

          “The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can’t let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US.
          We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are.”

          – Michael Oppenheimer,
          Environmental Defense Fund

    • Sunsettommy says:

      Ha ha ha,

      it is obvious you didn’t read the “study” since it lacks demonstrated forecast skill and based on unverified models.

      Try reading, The Scientific Method instead.

    • AndyG55 says:

      Thanks for the GREAT NEWS griff.

      This drop in sea ice will be a MASSIVE HELP to Russian northern commerce.

      The tiny drop in Arctic sea ice from WEATHER EVENTS this year hurts NO-ONE, because it is so localised in an area where people don’t live..

      The REAL ISSUE is the massive cold sweeping around the northern hemisphere affecting MILLIONS of people in Alaska Canada, Northern Europe, Russia.

      See all that purple on the image below, that is 10-20C BELOW NORMAL WINTER TEMPERATURE.

      People will likely die, and will certainly struggle..

      But you DON’T CARE, do you griff… so long as you can get in a meaningless and irrelevant sea ice scare word.

      You are truly a heartless piece of low-life human slime.

      • Griff says:

        You accept then that Russian science is accurate in its belief that the ice will continue to decline and open these seaways?

        Because if you do you have to abandon any pretence that the MYI ice is increasing or that there will be as much ice in the future as even 2007.

        This Russian effort is not for one year with ‘weather anomalies’ but for an arctic where there is a sustained and lasting drop in ice levels.

        • pmc47025 says:

          Griff, did you actually read the “Russian science” study? It’s based on CMIP5 SIMULATIONS, garbage in, garbage out.

          http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa5841

          • Gator says:

            Griff cares more about modeled ice than human life. He calls Bjorn Lomborg’s TED talk “nonsense”, and offers no rebuttal, just denial of hard facts and life saving resources.

            Safe to say we can write Ms Griff off as s complete nutcase, and Nazi.

          • Griff says:

            The Russians, you will note, are basing their economic development and military operations on it and other climate science. I note that Putin is not shutting down his scientists or disputing their methodology.

            The Russians can add up the trend from the observed rate of change as well as what they get from any modelling.

            I see no evidence that the ice is stable or increasing. Certainly none presented by commenters here.

          • Gator says:

            Ms Griff must be really madz at those poor brown people. Caring more for meaningless ice than human life is about as mentally ill as one can get.

          • AndyG55 says:

            griff, then why are the Russians massively beefing up their icebreaker fleet.

            One study using FAILED climate models, mentioned in a far-left rag, is meaningless.

            … even if it does show a picture of Putin with a polar bear.

            You truly are a gullible, child-minded little people hater, aren’t you griff.

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            But how do you know she doesn’t mean well, Gator? Doesn’t she have the right to protect the lebensraum?

          • Gator says:

            Ah! I did not realize that leftists considered the poles as their lebensraum. So they are afraid of poor brown people, and use ice to starve them, and to keep them at bay. I never knew!

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            The North Pole is the Leftists’ promised land, the magic kingdom of free stuff.

          • Sunsettommy says:

            pmc47025,

            I already pointed this out to that leftist moron tool,that the Russian models he drools over,lack demonstrated forecast skill, since it can’t be tested,it can’t be verifiable,can’t be modified,since it runs to year 2100.

            That is why I brought up the scientific method statement. All else is JUNK SCIENCE!

          • Gail Combs says:

            Arctic Warming
            In 1972

          • Gail Combs says:

            Arctic ‘Warming’
            in 2017 is similar to 1972 — B–F—Deal!

        • AndyG55 says:

          The study was done using 5 Chimp models..
          It is MEANINGLESS.

          Real data shows MYI is increasing. Get over it.

        • Sunsettommy says:

          “You accept then that Russian science is accurate in its belief that the ice will continue to decline and open these seaways?”

          Bwahahahahahahahahahahahah….!!!

          How can you say that with a straight face,Griff?

          They used the CMIP5 modeling program to year 2100,just 83 years into the FUTURE!!!

          You have no identifiable critical thinking skills visible,Griff. There is no way you can test this, since you will be long dead,as well as the fools who wrote yet another junk science paper.

          You are also too dumb to realize that more and more people are laughing at your strident stupidity everyday.People in a couple blogs ask about you often now,wondering when you would post another comical comment for them to laugh over.

          Go take some chemistry,Meteorology and engineering classes,fill that empty head with some real brainwaves.

    • Gail Combs says:

      It is changes in the solar radiation wavelengths that cause the shifts in the jets from zonal to ‘loopy’

      This is the chemistry:

    • Gail Combs says:

      ΔSolar UV(1)(2) ===> ΔOzone (3) ===> ΔStratospheric Temperature(4) ===> Δtropopause height(4) + Δ wind strength of jets(5) and motion**(6) + Δstrength of the stratospheric vortex (7)(8) + ΔOzone hole (9)

      (Δ = Changes in)
      (**Blocking phenomenon = Loopy jets)

      REFERENCES:

      (1) NASA 2007 before the deep solar minimum.: ” In recent years, SIM has collected data that suggest the sun’s brightness may vary in entirely unexpected ways… “We have never had a reason until now to believe that parts of the spectrum may vary out of phase with the solar cycle, but now we have started to model that possibility because of the SIM results,” …
      “Between 2004 and 2007, the Solar Irradiance Monitor (blue line) measured a decrease in ultraviolet radiation (less than 400 nanometers) that was a factor of four to six larger than expected.”
      (wwwDOT)nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/solarcycle-sorce.html

      (2)NASA 2009 “…A 12-year low in solar “irradiance”: Careful measurements by several NASA spacecraft show that the sun’s brightness has dropped by 0.02% at visible wavelengths and 6% at extreme UV wavelengths since the solar minimum of 1996….” science(DOT)nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/01apr_deepsolarminimum/

      (3)Solar Spectral Irradiance Data

      Research and Applications
      Because of selective absorption and scattering processes in the Earth’s atmosphere, different regions of the solar spectrum affect Earth’s climate in distinct ways. Approximately 20-25% of the Total Solar Irradiance (TSI) is absorbed by atmospheric water vapor, clouds, and ozone, by processes that are strongly wavelength dependent. Ultraviolet radiation at wavelengths below 300 nm is completely absorbed by the Earth’s atmosphere and contributes the dominant energy source in the stratosphere and thermosphere, establishing the upper atmosphere’s temperature, structure, composition, and dynamics. Even small variations in the Sun’s radiation at these short wavelengths will lead to corresponding changes in atmospheric chemistry. Radiation at the longer visible and infrared wavelengths penetrates into the lower atmosphere, where the portion not reflected is partitioned between the troposphere and the Earth’s surface, and becomes a dominant term in the global energy balance and an essential determinant of atmospheric stability and convection.
      lasp(dot)colorado.edu/home/sorce/data/ssi-data/

      (4)Changes in Ozone and Stratospheric Temperature
      http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/features/200402_tango/ozone_temperature_graph.gif

      The graph above shows total ozone and stratospheric temperatures over the Arctic since 1979. Changes in ozone amounts are closely linked to temperature, with colder temperatures resulting in more polar stratospheric clouds and lower ozone levels. Atmospheric motions drive the year-to-year temperature changes. The Arctic stratosphere cooled slightly since 1979, but scientists are currently unsure of the cause….
      (wwwDOT)giss.nasa.gov/research/features/200402_tango/

      (5)CHARACTERISTICS OF THE GENERAL CIRCULATION OF THE ATMOSPHERE AND THE GLOBAL DISTRIBUTION OF TOTAL OZONE AS DETERMINED BY THE NIMBUS III SATELLITE INFRARED INTERFEROMETER SPECTROMETER

      Ozone is an important atmospheric trace constituent. The depletion of solar radiation between approximately 2000 and 3000 A is the result of strong absorption by ozone in the ultraviolet wave-lengths. The energy absorbed in this process is the prime source of thermal energy in the stratosphere. Because of this, ozone plays an important role in the large-scale motions of the atmosphere….

      ….A strong correlation was found between the meridional gradient of total ozone and the wind velocity in jet stream systems…..

      CONTINUED

    • Gail Combs says:

      (6)Top-Down Solar Modulation of Climate: evidence for centennial-scale change

      The work presented here is consistent with the interpretation of a recently reported effect [25] of solar variability on the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) and European winter temperatures over the interval 1659–2010 in terms of top-down modulation of the blocking phenomenon [52, 53]. In fact, Woollings et al [26] show that the solar response pattern is, despite being similar in form to that of the NAO, significantly different in that it reaches further east. These authors also show that open solar flux has a much stronger control over blocking events in this sector than the previously reported effect of F10.7 [55]. There is seasonality in the solar responses reported here. This is expected as modulation of upwards-propagating planetary waves in wintertime, and the associated stratosphere– troposphere interaction, is most widely believed to be the key mechanism [8, 11]. In addition, the tropospheric signature is a response of the eddy-driven jet streams, and these are at their strongest and most responsive in winter. While the results are presented here as annual means, the regression analysis was actually carried out on monthly mean data and thus takes this seasonality into account. The seasonal evolution of the F10.7 cm flux regression was described in detail by Frame and Gray [53] and this was not significantly affected by using either the open solar flux FS nor the cosmic ray flux, M, instead of F10.7.”
      http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/5/3/034008/pdf/1748-9326_5_3_034008.pdf

      (7a)The NAO Troposphere–Stratosphere Connection “Using monthly mean data, daily data, and theoretical arguments, relationships between surface pressure variations associated with the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO), tropopause height, and the strength of the stratospheric vortex are established.”

      (8)Quasi-biennial oscillation and solar cycle influences on winter Arctic total ozone

      Abstract

      The total column ozone (TCO) observed from satellites and assimilated in the European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts since 1979 is used as an atmospheric tracer to study the modulations of the winter Arctic stratosphere by the quasi-biennial oscillation (QBO) and the solar cycle. It is found that both the QBO and solar forcings in low latitudes can perturb the late winter polar vortex, likely via planetary wave divergence, causing an early breakdown of the vortex in the form of sudden stratospheric warming. As a result, TCO within the vortex in late winter can increase by ~60 Dobson unit during either a solar maximum or an easterly phase of the QBO, or both, relative to the least perturbed state when the solar cycle is minimum and the QBO is in the westerly phase. In addition, from the solar maximum to the solar minimum during the QBO easterly phase, the change in TCO is found to be statistically insignificant. Therefore, the “reversal” of the Holton–Tan effect, reported in some previous studies using lower stratospheric temperature, is not evident in the TCO behavior of both observation and assimilation.
      onlinelibrary(DOT)wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2013JD021065/abstract

      (9)Climate System Response to Stratospheric Ozone Depletion and Recovery

      Compared to well-mixed greenhouse gases (GHGs), the radiative forcing of climate due to observed stratospheric ozone loss is very small: in spite of this, recent trends in stratospheric ozone have caused profound changes in the Southern Hemisphere (SH) climate system, primarily by altering the tropospheric midlatitude jet, which is commonly described as a change in the Southern Annular Mode. Ozone depletion in the late twentieth century was the primary driver of the observed poleward shift of the jet during summer, which has been linked to changes in tropospheric and surface temperatures, clouds and cloud radiative effects, and precipitation at both middle and low latitudes. It is emphasized, however, that not all aspects of the SH climate response to stratospheric ozone forcing can be understood in terms of changes in the midlatitude jet. The response of the Southern Ocean and sea ice to ozone depletion is currently a matter of debate. ….
      (wwwDOT)columbia.edu/~lmp/paps/previdi+polvani-QJRMS-2014-inpress.pdf

    • Gail Combs says:

      So what do the ‘Loopy’ Jets, that ‘warm’ the Arctic and sent blasts of cold down to Asia and North America mean???

      WELL Griffy, it DOES NOT MEAN Gore Bull Warming!

    • Gail Combs says:

      IT’s THE SUN!

      The sun just went through a Grand Solar Maximum, the highest in 3,000 years which has just ended.

      PAPER: Usoskin, I.G., Hulot, G., Gallet, Y., Roth, R., Licht, A., Joos, F., Kovaltsov, G.A., Thebault, E. and Khokhlov, A. 2014. Evidence for distinct modes of solar activity Astronomy and Astrophysics 562: L10, doi: 10.1051/0004-6361/201423391.

      SEE: A History of Solar Activity over Millennia

      • Gail Combs says:

        Corresponding change in Total Solar Insolation. (Note it is dropping off.)

      • Gail Combs says:

        Corresponding change in Ozone levels.

        • Sunsettommy says:

          Gail,

          You expect a science illiterate,read all these dangerous science stuff?

          Griff, might pass out!

          • Gail Combs says:

            That is my hope.

            This where the sun’s energy WAS… Cycle 24 was a wimp and Cycle 25 will be even worse.

            And speaking of Russians.
            Top scientists of Russia’s most prestigious academy say global warming is ending.

            The Voice of Russia report translated in English:

            Global warming is coming to an end: In the coming years the temperature over the entire planet will fall and the cooling will provide a character of relief. This is the conclusion reached by Russian scientists from the Physics University of the Russian Academy of Science.

            Also Russian solar physicist Habibullo Abdussamatov predicts another Little Ice Age within the next 30 years.

            GRAPH: Total Solar Irradiance

          • Gail Combs says:

            From Habibullo Abdussamatov Paper:
            (Note he is in Agreement with Usoskin et. al.)

          • Gail Combs says:

            Giffy, will be very happy with the temperature drop this Top flight Russian Scientist is predicting… Until she has to buy food.

          • Gail Combs says:

            Dr. Habibullo Abdussamatov is head of the Space Research Laboratory at the Pulkovo Observatory and head of the Russian-Ukrainian project Astrometria on the Russian Segment of the International Space Station. He holds two patents for scientific inventions and is the author of more than 160 scientific publications.

            His presentation at the International Conference on Climate Change The Beginning of the New Little Ice Age

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