Massive Arctic Ice Gain Over The Past Five Years

Arctic sea ice extent is up 40% from this date five years ago.

2012   2017

Greenland’s surface gained ten times as much ice as it did five years ago, and was the fifth highest on record.

Guest post: How the Greenland ice sheet fared in 2017 | Carbon Brief

Greenland’s most famous glacier, the Petermann Glacier, has grown substantially and steadily over the past five years.

NASA Satellite Imagery

This is a big change from 1939, when the glaciers of Greenland and Norway were facing catastrophic collapse.

17 Dec 1939, Page 15 – Harrisburg Sunday Courier

NASA responded quite predictably to the inconvenient 1930’s warmth in the Eastern Arctic – by simply trying to erase it.

Data.GISS: GISS Surface Temperature Analysis

It is also a big change from 65 years ago, when the glaciers of Norway and Alaska had lost half their mass, and threatened to drown seaports.

18 Feb 1952 – POLAR ICE THAW INCREASING

Climate scientists have responded to this years large Arctic ice gain by doing the only thing they know how to do – lie about it.

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201 Responses to Massive Arctic Ice Gain Over The Past Five Years

  1. Adamant de-Nye-er says:

    Now I am really worried about catching ancient diseases from the arctic. Reminds me of an old monster movie. I will have to use more scotch with my glacier ice water – just doing my part.

    • Colorado Wellington says:

      I would stay away from that North Pole ice water. Federal authorities say it’s a weird substance that screams and melts at 5℉. I can’t believe it’s not considered carcinogenic in the State of California. Don’t put it into your Scotch.

      • Gail Combs says:

        15 °C = 59 ℉

      • neal s says:

        And -15 C is 5 F

      • Adamant de-Nye-er says:

        Scotch, silicon, and nuclear reactions, in various proportions, can fix everything, except maybe California.

        • Andy says:

          Please use SI units, Fahrenheit was good when tricorn hats where in vogue, please hit the 20thC soon ( note C not F :p ) , maybe even a bit more modern?

          Andy

          • AndyG55 says:

            Poor andy-petal isn’t capable of comprehending both units.

          • AndyG55 says:

            Tell us , why do you come here constantly making and abject goose/moron of yourself, little-andy?

          • The Watcher says:

            In that case, home many stone do you weigh? And PLEASE make sure you drive on the left side of the road.

          • toorightmate says:

            I always use Imperial units – even for time!!!!!

          • Ed G says:

            There are those countries that use SI units, and there are those that have been to the moon.

          • H. says:

            Andy, there are two types of nations in the world: those that use the metric (SI) system, and those that put a man on the moon.

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            Huh?

            Andy [blank], I hear sniffing glue is one of those modern things but really …

          • Brian Stump says:

            Relax, you might have a coronary over the temperature scale issue.

            BTW, Fahrenheit is the official scale in the US.

          • Jimmy says:

            When airpoints are awarded in km, then I might think about it. When beer at a pub is sold by the half-liter instead of a pint, I’ll think about it.

          • Squidly says:

            @Andy

            You say: “Please use SI units, Fahrenheit was good when tricorn hats…”

            Actually, individual (whole) Fahrenheit units are of finer precision than Celsius. And sorry to burst your little bubble, but most scientific temperature measurements are done in Kelvin units and Calories, not Celsius units. I work with these things every single day (I develop firmware for energy measurement equipment).

            Furthermore, Kelvin is the “SI” unit, not Celcius.

            Kelvin (K), base unit of thermodynamic temperature measurement in the International System of Units (SI). It is defined as 100/27,316 of the triple point (equilibrium among the solid, liquid, and gaseous phases) of pure water.

            Perhaps it is you that should come on board to the 19th, 20th and 21st centuries? … or maybe just learn 1 or 2 “real” things about science before trying to lecture others.

          • Mike says:

            If God had wanted us to use metrics, there would have been 10 disciples

          • C J says:

            Bravo, Squidly!!!! Again, YOU win the internet… (at least these threads) :) LOL

          • Stan B says:

            Yeah – list every country that uses SI units and has put a man on the moon, please….

          • David Rapalyea says:

            SI = Kelven or am I missing something?

          • nearboston says:

            dividing something into 180 units makes it more accurate than dividing it into 100.

            F is better man!!

          • Antimatter says:

            Yea — what squidly said !

          • hyedenny says:

            Kelvin (nor Celsius, not Fahrenheit) is not a unit, it’s a scale. You lose.

          • Dave says:

            If you are going to use SI units the correct unit is Kelvins (K) not C. The truth is all the units are equally valid, and can be used to measure whatever you want if you know what you’re doing.

          • SGT Chemistry says:

            I use Kelvin, the REAL temperature.

        • Blackbeard says:

          If God had wanted us to use metrics, there would have been 10 disciples

          And ten hours of 100 minutes each on your watch, each minute being 100 seconds.

          And ten months in the year of 100 days each.

      • Dingbat says:

        PERFECT and I am a Scotch drinker. I never respond to any comments…could not help myself ! PERFECT.

      • Sp00k says:

        Huh? I thought California already had a Prop 65 sign for this??? failures…

      • onetermandout says:

        All saltwater freezes and melts at a lower temperature than fresh water.

        • Colorado Wellington says:

          -15°C?

          Are you expecting something like Dead Sea (342 g/kg salinity) water in the Arctic? Don’t put that into anything, man, not even margaritas! The Highlanders would beat you with sticks if you did it to Scotch and their courts would let them go free.

          If you must, Boulder vegans say you should soak tofu in that brine. They swear it makes it less disgusting.

      • GKamburoff says:

        Please outgrow your disdain for other states. Rest assured it is returned.

    • RoHa says:

      If it is good Scotch, the only thing to add to it is more Scotch.

      • USexpat says:

        Nup, all good scotch heeds to be “opened” with a splash of cool water.

      • David Rapalyea says:

        I have heard rumors that scotch is better watered four to one – volatility or somthing. LaPhroag is my poison and taken straight up its not a subtle poison either. Maybe psychadelic as, well.

        Simpler to just drink cheap ice beer.

      • Snarf Jabroni says:

        Bingo! Adding ice to GOOD scotch, whiskey, etc…is heresy.

      • Chas Farmer says:

        I say lets all take a breath, pour a single malt 20 year old scotch, and re-evaluate why the climate changers lie – before the morons try to swindle any more of my money.

        • Colorado Wellington says:

          Such is the proper use of Scotch as intended by our Maker.

        • I suppose looters lie because of algebra. Teachers argue that if A=B, B=A. Along came some French communist who assured them that property is theft. Naturally they conclude that theft is property based on that assurance. So its far from surprising they come up with other assertions just as false–unless one expects honesty from them that steal.

      • John says:

        If you have to mix your Scotch with anything, even ice, it is not good enough to drink. Neat is the only way.

    • Albert F Tacke says:

      Lol. I’m right there with you.

    • RobertM says:

      Good for you, I will have to follow a like procedure with my Johnnie Walker.
      .

    • Keith says:

      A quick suggestion to help you out, I recommend Bourbon as an alternative to Scotch, less Climate change.

  2. Gerald Machnee says:

    Waiting for Griff to say it is still melting.

    • Gail Combs says:

      WHERE IS Griff???
      Griffy and Snow White (Jimmy-boy Hunt) both should be on this like flies on a manure pile.

      What fun are these posts if we can’t beat up Griffy or Jimmy-boy?

      • Colorado Wellington says:

        Jimmy Hunt is smarting on his manure pile. Ms Griff is hiding from Islamists she told us don’t exist.

      • Stewart Pid says:

        I think Griff feels like he has shit for brains and is suffering from the realization of just how wrong he was and how stupid Tony and others have made him look all year. I see him posting occasionally at WUWT so a Russian satellite hasn’t hit him (dang).

      • GW Smith says:

        Perhaps they didn’t want to run the gauntlet of adolescent insults again. There are some people here who are rude beyond measure. If we were more respectful they might stick around and have a logical conversation. But, if verbal torture is all some are interested in they can go out and kick little puppies and pull wings off of flies to get their kicks.

        • Colorado Wellington says:

          Maybe, and maybe not.

          I have never had a logical conversation with Ms Griff, though. She’s not into that kind of stuff. Her modus operandi gives some justification to people who think she’s a compensated pro or semi-pro troll.

          Jim Hunt is a typical underhanded operator who is only interested in discussions he thinks he can tip his way. I don’t remember him being banned by Tony no matter what he says but I believe he got–or gets repeatedly—banned on WUWT for his tactics.

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            I also don’t remember a single CAGW believer or troll who ever commented here but was willing to denounce the favorite practice of calling their opponents deniers. People who endorse such methods of argument don’t deserve to be treated with much courtesy.

            Remember, it was not the skeptics who turned what should have been a normal scientific dispute into a political brawl with research funding withdrawals, character assassinations, career-ending attacks, hostile media campaigns and repeated attempts to prosecute them under the RICO statute.

        • Andy says:

          Sticks and stones never did me any harm. I just use a bit of science to sort it out, see below….

          I’m winning 298 posts to 0 at the moment with Gator.

          And I am being generous to the scaly one :)

          Andy

          • AndyG55 says:

            You haven’t won a single post in the time you have been here.

            You are an ineffective anti-science non-entity.

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            You think you are winning 298 posts to 0?

            That would explain a few things I noticed …

          • Gator says:

            I’m winning 298 posts to 0 at the moment with Gator.

            Another lie from Andy.

            Not Andy

          • Squidly says:

            @AndyG55,

            I think you are being a bit kind: “You are an ineffective anti-science non-entity.”

            I just call Andy what he is .. a moron.

        • Gator says:

          Yes, liars and genocidal maniacs deserve our respect.

        • RAH says:

          GW Smith.
          If they can’t take the heat…………. .
          In my military training me and my family were denigrated daily at times. You just let it roll of your back and take it for what it is.

          Nearly everyday I read or hear people like me being classified as racist Nazis in the “news” by supposed “news” people and personalities because I support the president of the United States, don’t support illegal “immigration”, don’t believe that fundamentalist Muslims can be integrated into our society, don’t believe the government has any business subsidizing abortion, am oppose a government that is always growing and taking more the wealth from the middle class, etc…

          For the most part those that come here that disagree with the views here do believe in those things. The believe in them because human caused “climate change” is the most perfect vehicle for helping to implement the lefts agenda. An agenda that if it came to fruition, I would rebel against violently using force of arms.

          That being said, I try to be respectful to posters until the time I know what their about. When I find they are about denying reality or about flaming then they get no respect.

          • gator69 says:

            I too will give newcomers all the respect they deserve, right up until they cross a line. I am too old and have too little time to spend it making nice with evil idiots.

            We have put up with this leftist doomer fantasy for far too long, and millions of people are dying as a result, enough is enough.

          • TroyGale says:

            1000 up votes RAH, there are many of us. The last laugh is indeed the best, and over the next 20 years we deniers will be having ours.
            Let’s continue to keep the UN where it belongs, in the kiddie league. It’s always been about gaining global control over the masses. Some poor twits will never understand that. They believe the UN is good for us.
            Regards

        • Gator Navy says:

          If these “warmest fanatics” would pay attention to scientific facts and stop going gaga over the 97% of their heroes that manipulate data to get the outcome that gets them more govt. grant money; then maybe they’ll get some respect.

        • angech says:

          Well said.

          • angech says:

            GW Smith says:

            Well said Mr Smith. Will make no difference.
            I understand people being hurt by intransigence and lying but it is still not a good reason to be so rude.
            It is a reason.
            Tony has unfortunately been well and truly insulted everywhere else so he must be winning his arguments to make others so aggressive.
            More arguments are won by turning the cheek than trying to outdo those hurling insults.

          • gator69 says:

            I’ve never seen an argument won by turning a cheek. Please explain.

          • Gail Combs says:

            angech,

            Leftists/Progressives/Antifa and the rest of the scum COUNT on the ‘Average Person’ “turning the cheek”

            This is THE KEY part of their fighting method.

            It is the very heart of Political Correctness and why whenever someone starts winning with facts out comes the name calling and attacks.

            It is also why President Trump won and continues to win. He is not AFRAID of Political Correctness or the left’s name calling. Instead of doing what Republicans have done since I was born, President Trump doesn’t cower when the Left fights dirty, he FIGHTS BACK!
            …….

            Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals
            “RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)”

            At present this rule is what the left is trying to pull on President Trump to chip away at his voter base. For example Breitbart is SWARMED by Urinalists, and Never-Trumpers and Trolls continually moaning how Trump has betrayed his base. Yet if you look at what Trump SAYS and has said in the past, none of it is true.

            “RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.”

            “RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)”

            We are called Deniers and Deplorables, r=are ridiculed to death and even have death threats made. Specific people like Dr Bill Gray, Dr. Tim Ball, Dr. Hopper, Dr. Bob Carter, Dr Willie Soon and many more. All lost their jobs or had attack made that were calculated to deprive them of their jobs.

            “RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)”
            ……

            FINALLY, As Gator keeps repeating the consequences of the policies of the CAGW supporting politicians is DEATH TO MILLIONS!

            That means every single one of these ClimAstrologists who KNOWINGLY LIE for money and fame are ACCESSORIES TO MURDER BEFORE THE FACT!

            Dec 5, 2010 — Britain is freezing to death
            “…The winter death toll is set to rise steeply as official figures show that nine elderly people died every hour because of cold-related illnesses last year. The number of deaths linked to cold over the four months of last winter reached nearly 28,000.

            Charities claim this country [UK] has the highest winter death rate in northern Europe…”

            3 February 2012 — Hundreds die from the cold in eastern Europe
            “….According to the Ukraine Emergency Ministry’s web site, the number of deaths had risen to 63 over the past six days in Ukraine, with 945 people hospitalised with frostbite. The extreme weather has claimed 35 lives in Poland since January 24, and 22 people have died in Romania, many of them homeless, according to Realitatea TV.

            The real death toll is likely to be much higher. Initial statistics concentrate on urban areas and neglect the large proportion of the population, often elderly and poor, living in the countryside. In addition, some eastern European countries do not collect statistics for such deaths….”

            There are many more such stories and that doesn’t even get into the starvation in third world countries caused by idiotic policies.

          • Gator says:

            Nice to have you back sis! :-)

        • AndyG55 says:

          Jimbo and griff deserve every bit of insult that is handed to them and far , far more.

          They are both low-life LYING, DECEITFUL scam-artists/trolls who deserve absolutely ZERO respect.

        • David A says:

          GW says, are rude beyond measure. If we were more respectful they might stick around and have a logical conversation”

          GE, I know you ate sincere, yet what you are suggesting is beyond their capacity. When a person males the same assertion dozens of times, has it soundly refuted many more dozens of times, and NEVER responds to those posts, along with engaging in all the behaviour CW mentions, well, they are trolls.

          A sincere assertion of contrary evidence here will get an informed response.

  3. Andy says:

    “Arctic sea ice extent is up 40% from this date five years ago.”

    Best cherry picking ever. Give me the figures how it compares to 2011 and 2013

    Andy

    • AndyG55 says:

      Like starting the bed-wetting Arctic spiral in 1979,

      wouldn’t you agree., little Andy. !

      Arctic sea ice is currently above 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2015, 2016..

      Its also considerably above the MWP levels and massively more than for most of the first 7000+ year of the current interglacial.

      There is ONE HECK OF A LOT OF SEA ICE up there.

      • Andy says:

        That was the point I was making AndyG55, thanks for backing me up. It’s been a poor summer in the Arctic so ice levels are quite well up on 2016, which would have been an interesting point in itself, rather than cherry picking 2012 like Tony did.

        Thanks for the support and agreement.

        Andy

    • angech says:

      “Best cherry picking ever.
      Give me the figures how it compares to 2011 and 2013 ”
      Sad but whenever something starts to turn people run out a cherry pick argument. Overall Arctic Sea ice appears to be on the turn upwards.
      The comment is correct.
      Come back in 1 and 2 years with your comments Andy.

    • Latitude says:

      “Best cherry picking ever”….

      Andy, how is this any different than cherry picking the lows?

    • sunsettommy says:

      Andy, you have been given the TEN year trend from 2007 which shows no change on the mean.

      Here it is AGAIN!

      http://www.natice.noaa.gov/ims/images/sea_ice_only_small.jpg

      Stop being an idiot.

      • Many thanks for that graph. I was looking for exactly that. Someone just showed me a 2011 chart with a dropoff to zero on it. But the dropoff is way out past the date the thing was produced, which makes it prophesy, not data. Is there a thermometer reading in northern Canada, Siberia or Greenland that can accessed in real time?

  4. Andy says:

    Clue, it was up by 4% in 2011 and lower by 5% in 2013. 2012 was an unusual year weather wise in the Arctic, not relevant to the dull days for the last two years.

    2017 is 7% higher than 2016 though, which is more relevant.

    Andy

    • AndyG55 says:

      The really unusual time was during the LIA and the late 1970’s.

      Extreme levels of sea ice like existed then, and still exist now, were not seen for most of the first 7000+ years of the Holocene.

      But you knew that didn’t you… so why the child-minded yapping ??

      • Andy says:

        What was the late 1970’s unusual compared to ? Some figures would be good

        Andy

        • AndyG55 says:

          They have been given many times before.

          You seem you be WILFULLY IGNORANT.

          In DENIAL of climate realty, refusing to admit facts.

          • AndyG55 says:

            typo

            You seem to be WILFULLY IGNORANT.

            Your only recourse as you dodge and weave and slither and slime, trying desperately to avoid the facts.

          • Gator says:

            Andy is completely delusional, and/or a liar. And here is the proof…

            Andy lies:
            September 18, 2017 at 8:22 pm

            I’m winning 298 posts to 0 at the moment with Gator.

            Not Andy

        • Gail Combs says:

          The rest of the Holocene.

          Temperature and precipitation history of the Arctic

          …. Solar energy reached a summer maximum (9% higher than at present) ~11 ka ago and has been decreasing since then, primarily in response to the precession of the equinoxes. The extra energy elevated early Holocene summer temperatures throughout the Arctic 1-3°C above 20th century averages, enough to completely melt many small glaciers throughout the Arctic, although the Greenland Ice Sheet was only slightly smaller than at present. Early Holocene summer sea ice limits were substantially smaller than their 20th century average, and the flow of Atlantic water into the Arctic Ocean was substantially greater. As summer solar energy decreased in the second half of the Holocene, glaciers re-established or advanced, sea ice expanded

          Ice free Arctic Ocean, an Early Holocene analogue

          Abstract
          Extensive systems of wave generated beach ridges along the North Greenland coasts show that these areas once saw seasonally open water. In addition to beach ridges, large amounts of striated boulders in and on the marine sediments from the same period also indicate that the ocean was open enough for ice bergs to drift along the shore and drop their loads. Presently the North Greenland coastline is permanently beleaguered by pack ice, and ice bergs are very rare and locked up in the sea ice. Predictions of the rapidly decreasing sea ice in the Arctic Ocean generally point to this area as the last to become ice free in summer. We therefore suggest that the occurrence of wave generated shores and abundant ice berg dropped boulders indicate that the Arctic Ocean was nearly free of sea ice in the summer at the time when they were formed. The beach ridges occur as isostatically raised “staircases”, and C14-dated curves for relative sea level change show that they were formed in the Early Holocene. A large set of samples of molluscs from beach ridges and marine sediments were collected in the summer of 2007, and are presently being dated to give a precise dating of the ice free interval. Preliminary results indicate that it fell within the interval from c. 8.5 to c. 6 ka – being progressively shorter from south to north. We therefore conclude that for a period in the Early Holocene, probably for a millenium or more, the Arctic Ocean was free of sea ice at least for shorter periods in the summer….

          This is a study from Norway and again glaciers were substantially reduced compared to the last couple hundred years.

          A new approach for reconstructing glacier variability based on lake sediments recording input from more than one glacier

          …. A multi-proxy numerical analysis demonstrates that it is possible to distinguish a glacier component in the ~ 8000-yr-long record, based on distinct changes in grain size, geochemistry, and magnetic composition…. This signal is …independently tested through a mineral magnetic provenance analysis of catchment samples. Minimum glacier input is indicated between 6700–5700 cal yr BP, probably reflecting a situation when most glaciers in the catchment had melted away, whereas the highest glacier activity [growth] is observed around 600 and 200 cal yr BP. During the local Neoglacial interval (~ 4200 cal yr BP until present), five individual periods of significantly reduced glacier extent are identified at ~ 3400, 3000–2700, 2100–2000, 1700–1500, and ~ 900 cal yr BP….

        • Gail Combs says:

          Ice cores from the Freemont Glacier show it went from Little Ice Age cold to Modern Warming warm in the ten years around 1850 — Naturally.

          ABSTRACT
          An ice core removed from the Upper Fremont Glacier in Wyoming provides evidence for abrupt climate change during the mid-1800s….

          At a depth of 152 m the refined age-depth profile shows good agreement (1736±10 A.D.) with the 14C age date (1729±95 A.D.). The δ18O profile of the Upper Fremont Glacier (UFG) ice core indicates a change in climate known as the Little Ice Age (LIA)….

          At this depth, the age-depth profile predicts an age of 1845 A.D. Results indicate the termination of the LIA was abrupt with a major climatic shift to warmer temperatures around 1845 A.D. and continuing to present day. Prediction limits (error bars) calculated for the profile ages are ±10 years (90% confidence level). Thus a conservative estimate for the time taken to complete the LIA climatic shift to present-day climate is about 10 years, suggesting the LIA termination in alpine regions of central North America may have occurred on a relatively short (decadal) timescale.
          http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/1999JD901095/full

          Dansgaard (Greenland Ice core team) noted three rapid climate collapses are linked to orbital features that diminished the radiance from the sun… Climate Crash

          Royal Meteorological Society
          Abrupt and sudden climatic transitions and fluctuations: a review: …A number of persistent oscillations exist, particularly one about 1500 years, but their amplitudes vary considerably between time periods. The Holocene appears to be no more climatically benign than the similar period in the Eemian. The importance of the North Atlantic thermohaline circulation for generating abrupt climatic changes in Europe, particularly in association with sudden pulses of fresh water, is illustrated. The concept of antiphase temperature changes between the North and South Atlantic is discussed. Externally generated abrupt climatic deteriorations owing to explosive volcanic eruptions and variations in solar irradiance are also discussed…

        • sunsettommy says:

          Stop the lying,Andy. You have been shown the figures already.

  5. frederik wisse says:

    The best ice is black ice as every Dutch skater is able to tell you . The worst ice is white salty ice as every Arctic explorer or polar bear is able to tell you . For real ice-lovers quality is paramount over quantity .

  6. Gator says:

    Nice to know that Andy is so butt-hurt from tangling with me that he must make up outrageous lies…

    Andy lies:
    September 18, 2017 at 8:22 pm

    I’m winning 298 posts to 0 at the moment with Gator.

  7. Andy DC says:

    You are mixing up your Andy’s. Only Andy DC and AndyG55 have all winning posts. Any other Andy’s are pirates and losers-cry baby, wolf crying frauds, trying to capitalize on OUR wonderful name and reputations!

  8. spren says:

    This comment is for AndyG55. I’m not saying I disagree with your claims about ice extent at other times during the Holocene, but what do you base them on. We’ve only had satellite observation since 1979, so how can we reliably state what ice extent was in previous eras? I understand that we have proxies that can show conditions over land from the past, but how could we positively know what ice conditions were over open water? I only ask out of curiosity because I don’t understand how we could definitively know those previous states.

    • Gail Combs says:

      I just posted a couple of Early Holocene Arctic Ice papers above.

      Here is another

      Abstract

      Arctic Ocean sea ice proxies generally suggest a reduction in sea ice during parts of the early and middle Holocene (∼6000–10,000 years Before the Present) compared to present day conditions. This sea ice minimum has been attributed to the northern hemisphere Early Holocene Insolation Maximum (EHIM) associated with Earth’s orbital cycles. Here we investigate the transient effect of insolation variations during the final part of the last glaciation and the Holocene by means of continuous climate simulations with the coupled atmosphere–sea ice–ocean column model CCAM. We show that the increased insolation during EHIM has the potential to push the Arctic Ocean sea ice cover into a regime dominated by seasonal ice, i.e. ice free summers. The strong sea ice thickness response is caused by the positive sea ice albedo feedback. Studies of the GRIP ice cores and high latitude North Atlantic sediment cores show that the Bølling–Allerød period (c. 12,700–14,700 years BP) was a climatically unstable period in the northern high latitudes and we speculate that this instability may be linked to dual stability modes of the Arctic sea ice cover characterized by e.g. transitions between periods with and without perennial sea ice cover.

      http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2014/03/new-paper-finds-arctic-sea-ice-was-much.html

      I can’t find the ones I was looking for — DARN

      One paper looked at the dunes along the shore another looked at seabed sediment cores and the shells of microscopic animals that is used as water temperature markers.

      A 10,000-Year Record of Arctic Ocean Sea-Ice Variability—View from the Beach

      Arctic Ocean perennial sea ice breakdown during the Early Holocene Insolation Maximum This has links to other articles.

      The ruins of a large prehistoric town was found on the shore of the Arctic sea.
      (wwwDOT)ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1078291/?page=1

      Hope that helps.

    • angech says:

      spren says:
      ” I’m not saying I disagree with your claims about ice extent at other times during the Holocene”
      In other words I do disagree with them.

      ” but what do you base them on.”
      The usual proxies for ice extent in the holocene, perhaps? But you know that.

      “‘We’ve only had satellite observation since 1979,[*Not true] so how can we reliably state what ice extent was in previous eras?”
      The usual proxies for ice extent in the holocene, perhaps? But you know that too.
      “I understand that we have proxies that can show conditions over land from the past,”
      Really?

      “but how could we positively know what ice conditions were over open water?”
      The usual proxies for ice extent in the holocene, perhaps? But you know that.


      ” I only ask out of curiosity” ”

      No.
      You appear to be asking to be difficult.

      “because I don’t understand how we could definitively know those previous states.”
      They use proxies. No one can definitely know. But the proxies allow these claims to be made.

      • spren says:

        The snark wasn’t called for. If I knew the answers to the questions I asked, I wouldn’t have asked them.

        • angech says:

          ??
          Snark?
          One can ask questions anytime.
          You disagreed in three ways then pretended to ask questions.

          • spren says:

            You’re not very adept at this reading comprehension thing. I didn’t disagree. I expressed factors that made it difficult for me to understand. Both Gail and AndyG55 responded to my questions and tried to help me, unlike you who were only interested in trying to insult me. Maybe you should join the warmist cultists as that is more in line with their style.

    • AndyG55 says:

      Icelandic sea ice records .. actual data.. tells us many things

      https://s19.postimg.org/bkgbf2prn/Icelandic_sea_ice_index_2.png

      Then there is the many different bio-data studies which all say the same thing, that Arctic sea ice was often “summer ice free” during the first 7000+ years of the Holocene, nicely displayed in simple graphical form in this graph adapted from Stein et al 2017.

      https://s19.postimg.org/vgdnb299v/Arctic-_Sea-_Ice-_Holocene-_Stein-17.jpg

    • BruceC says:

      We’ve actually had satellite observation since 1973 spren, but its so inconvenient for the cause ;)

    • sunsettommy says:

      Here is one for you,

      New Paper Indicates There Is More Arctic Sea Ice Now Than For Nearly All Of The Last 10,000 Years

      http://notrickszone.com/2017/03/02/new-paper-indicates-there-is-more-arctic-sea-ice-now-than-for-nearly-all-of-the-last-10000-years/#sthash.M55SKVGs.dpbs

    • sunsettommy says:

      Another one for you,Spren:

      Taylor & Francis online

      Birds and Climatic Change

      Kenneth Williamson (1975) Birds and Climatic Change, Bird Study, 22:3,143-164, DOI: 10.1080/00063657509476459

      Published online: 24 Jun 2009

      “HISTORICAL REVIEW

      Between 1000 and 1300 average summer temperatures were about 1°C higher than today, with the mean annual temperature higher by perhaps 4°C in a largely ice-free Arctic. Eric the Red, a renowned world citizen of that time, has been much maligned as the first progressive publicity man for giving Greenland a false image in order to attract settlers; but in truth, the southwest of that vast country was warmer and greener by far than at any time until the Field fares Turdus pilaris arrived there in the mid-1930s. The sea-temperature of the Atlantic was higher than it has been since, and there appears to have been none or very little ice to hinder the Vikings’ communications between Iceland, Greenland,Newfoundland and Labrador (Mowat 1965). Indeed Brooks (1926) considers that the polar ice-cap may have disappeared entirely during the summer months, to build anew each winter.”

      http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00063657509476459

    • sunsettommy says:

      The rest here at the forum,it is a growing list:

      https://ai-jane.org/thread-14533.html

    • Good point. What I have observed since 1977 is that intellectuals of the looter persuasion have mystical faith in what they are conditioned or predisposed to believe. Even when you have them dead to rights with photos of hot air exhausts blasting thermometers, temperature graphs showing decreases over time, newspaper items and engineering measurements… they blink and the thing vanishes. It’s like arguing with a Larry Niven Nonesuch. Yes they delight in changing the subject to farfetched and unverifiable claims buried in Antarctica, but only if those match the predisposition. So why bother? Warmageddon Millerites must first show me Tony’s graph of temperatures since 1920 is fake. Then we’ll count out money, settle up, and argue about betting odds on other stuff.

  9. Chris Long says:

    Funny, the MSM is still spewing Arctic ice is retreating at record rates.

  10. Whisky Tissue says:

    http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

    Sea Ice 3rd Lowest EVER recorded.

    • tonyheller says:

      Total BS. You have no idea what you are talking about.

    • AndyG55 says:

      Sorry, whiskey soaked moron…

      2017 level is currently above 2007, 2008,2010, 2011, 2012, 2015 and 2016

      It is also significantly above the levels of the MWP…

      and FAR above the levels of the first 3/4 or so of the current interglacial.

      Why do you choose to display your basic IGNORANCE so wantonly ?

    • See what I mean? They whip out–not data–but “an analysis” from the National Socialist Ice Data Center and a drawing of purple lines with assertions. My dog dug a hole in the yard, which irritates my wife. But trying to drag that dog by main force to LOOK at the damn hole is as easy as vaccinating a full-grown horse–or getting Zeke Hausvaterland to look at Tony’s temperature charts for the same thermometers as in 1920. Econazis–exactly like the dog that dug the hole–will look at all sorts of things, but NOT Tony’s temperature chart. It’s a replay of “Eco-hysterics and the Technophobes” for the past 45 years!

    • Gator says:

      Which NFL team came in third?

    • Gator says:

      Time to tax the Sun…

      NASA’ Goddard’s Institute for Space Studies explains that the warming of the Arctic is due to 5% more solar radiation being absorbed since 2000. CO2 is transparent to the incoming warming visible radiation that warms the earth and oceans. CO2 traps a small amount of outgoing IR between 13 and 18µ, wavelengths that don’t penetrate or warm the oceans. NOAA and NASA appear to understand the real cause of the loss of Arctic Sea Ice, incoming solar radiation. The one thing they don’t and can’t do is explain how increasing CO2 can somehow make more visible radiation reach the oceans and surface of the earth. If you can’t explain how CO2 can warm the oceans, you can’t blame CO2. If people want to know the truth about Climate Change and its causes, they simply have to watch NOAA’s videos and NASA’s graphics and take them at their words. Visible radiation is warming our oceans, no more explanation needed. CO2 simply isn’t involved.

      https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2017/12/13/noaa-and-nasa-admit-the-sun-not-co2-is-causing-the-arctic-sea-ice-to-disappear/

  11. Captain Michael Larkin says:

    The hottest decade of the twentieth century was the thirties, their records still beat anything since, so of course the ice melted, and this was before jet airplanes, hundreds of millions of cars, semi trucks, our Navy, our Air force, and farmer plowed with horses. So you still believe in anthropological warming?? And the tooth fairy?? WTFU!

  12. tom laser says:

    I have a spin on the whole bogus “climate change” scenario that you all are going to love!

    There will never be a “tidal rise” like the global warming theorists state, it will never happen, want to know why? (You all will know this well)

    It is because since the 1930’s, numerous countries have been damming up fresh water to use for very large populations. Remember 1930’s Hoover Dam? Lake Powell? Just between the 2 of them, there’s a massive amount of water held back from the oceans. And don’t forget China’s 3-gorges dam. Yes, we will be going into another ice age soon, due to higher water vapor concentrations and storms in the atmosphere.

    But, hold on: There will be an incredible amount of erosion as the oceans carve out their coastlines. This and hurricanes cannot be stopped and will always be recurring, until the earth dies. No way for humans to stop any of it unless about a billion people die and stop using and drinking fresh water. World War may bring the rising tides then, but not until all that happens.

    • David A says:

      Tom, I looked at the total human made water storage capacity several years back. Sorry I do not remember the numbers but it is very small relative to the size of our oceans.

  13. Vuil says:

    I blame Donald Trump. ……… What’s that you say …..?

  14. JustThisGuy says:

    Re: receding glaciers
    How do glaciers form?
    By colder temperatures ALONE?
    What if the polar regions had decreases in precipitation?
    Less snow must result a smaller glacier. Taken to the extreme, no snow for a long enough time means no glacier.
    Is there a way to attribute the portion of glacier shrinkage to less precipitation?
    [This is a legitimate query, free of any agenda]

    • David A says:

      Yes in some areas where land use has affected precipitation like Japan. AFAICT there has been very little change in global precipitation.

    • Gail Combs says:

      You can look at these maps for the last 130,000 years ( click on maps on left to take you to more information or larger maps.) link
      AND NOTE THE POLAR DESERTS.

      Also:
      Climate Crash: Abrupt Climate Change and What it Means for our Future (John Henry Press, 2005), by John D. Cox documents the initial discovery of Abrupt Climate Change (ACC) as described by Dr. Richard B. Alley
      “…The ice that had formed from falling snow during the transition from the last of the cold, dry, windy ice ages to the first of the warm, wet calms of the modern 10,000-year-long Holocene climate is 1,678 meters, just over a mile, down the GISP2 core….

      “‘You did not need to be a trained ice core observer to see this,’ recalled Alley. ‘Ken Taylor is sitting there with the ECM and he’s running along and his green line is going wee, wee, wee, wee – Boing! Weep! Woop! And then it stays down.’ Dust in the windy ice age atmosphere lowered the acidity of the core to a completely new state. ‘We’re just standing there and he just draws a picture of it,”‘Alley said.”

      . ‘I think we cheered,’ recalled Alley, ‘and then we were all a little sobered. Because it was just so spectacular. It was what we’d been looking for, and there it was, and then we’re sitting there. Holy crap.'”…

      “In the GISP2 science trench, the tray holding the section of core rolled down the assembly line and then it was Alley’s turn at the ice. “It slides across in front of me and I’m trying to identify years: ‘That’s a year, that’s a year and that’s a year, and – woops, that one’s only half as thick.’ And it’s sitting there just looking at you. And there’s a huge change in the appearance of the ice, it goes from being clear to being not clear, having a lot of dust.”…”

      An interesting theory…
      “…. This graph demonstrates that every Interglacial warming period was preceded by at least 10,000 years of dust storms (red line). In scientific journals it is sometimes claimed that this dust was derived from retreating ice-sheets leaving a barren landscape. But as we all know, plant recolonisation with grasses is likely to be rapid after ice sheets retreat, and so this explanation is highly improbable. Besides, it is indisputable that each dust era preceded the end of the Ice Age by some 10,000 years, rather than occurring during the Interglacial glacial retreat period.
      So what caused the dust-storms, that reduced the albedo and allowed the Ice Ages to end? Fig 8 gives us the answer, because it also shows that CO2 levels during each Ice Age came all the way down to 180 ppm (green line), and that is dangerously low for plant life. CO2 is probably the most important gas in the atmosphere, because it is an essential plant food. Without CO2 plants die, and if all the plants die then the entire world ecosystem dies with it….”
      —- Albedo regulation of Ice Ages, with no CO2 feedbacks.

      This is somewhat supported by a couple of papers I list below.

      • Gail Combs says:

        There is another more subtle aspect to the CO2 starvation level and that is partial pressure.
        Impact of lower atmospheric carbon dioxide on tropical mountain ecosystems

        …. Carbon limitation due to lower ambient CO2 partial pressures had a significant impact on the distribution of forest on the tropical mountains, in addition to climate. Hence, tree line elevation should not be used to infer palaeotemperatures….

        Effect of Low Glacial Atmospheric CO2 on Tropical African Montane Vegetation

        Abstract

        Estimates of glacial-interglacial climate change in tropical Africa have varied widely. Results from a process-based vegetation model show how montane vegetation in East Africa shifts with changes in both carbon dioxide concentration and climate. For the last glacial maximum, the change in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration alone could explain the observed replacement of tropical montane forest by a scrub biome. This result implies that estimates of the last glacial maximum tropical cooling based on tree- line shifts must be revised.

        Eco Physics Lab PDF

        …While [CO2] does not vary with elevation, CO2 partial pressure decreases in proportion to total atmospheric pressure. Under modern conditions, partial pressures of CO2 at high-elevation sites are 10–30% lower than at low-elevation sites, producing an even more conservative comparison between glacial and modern conditions….

        That means if the CO2 level is around 210 ppm you can kiss trees and other C3 plants growth much above sea level good by and that is most of the earth. CONTINUED

      • Gail Combs says:

        Perhaps the most critical point is brought out in this paper (Trees and most food plants are C3 not C4 so this speaks directly to food sources for humans and many other species)

        Carbon starvation in glacial trees recovered from the La Brea tar pits, southern California
        La Brea, CA, elevation is 63 meters or 207 feet above sea level.

        Lower CO2 levels PLUS lower moisture with a boot from glaciation did however lead to the evolution of C4 and CAM plants which use a different but more energy expensive chemical pathway to conserve water.

        Carbon dioxide starvation, the development of C4 ecosystems, and mammalian evolution

        The Evolution of C4 Photosynthesis

        So as the CO2 and moisture disappears during glaciation you are left with trees and other C3 plants along the coasts and then grasses (C4) and deserts AND WIND… Another subject the ClimAstrologists neglect.

    • Blackbeard says:

      It NEVER snows in Antarctica, yet somehow two miles of ice leaped out of the ocean onto Antarctica.

      The basic “explanation” for the Ice Ages is that the entire Earth just got really cold for some reason, and then miles thick glaciers formed. But if it gets really cold, there is NO PRECIPITATION. So how does all that snow fall on the land and turn into glaciers?

      Also, the COLDEST land in the Northern Hemisphere, Siberia, has NEVER HAD ANY GLACIATION, while North America and part of Europe were buried in miles of ice.

      Someone explain that to me.

  15. Ave says:

    All due to global warming! Hahaha

  16. Bill Smith says:

    The fourth angel poured his bowl on the sun and it was allowed to scorch them with fire.; they were scorched by the fierce heat…Rev 16.8 Al Gore’s scam about climate change netted him, they say, $100M. Al Gore’s movie, An Inconvenient Truth (sic) has already been ruled by the British High Court to be a ”propaganda film” that contains multiple misstatements of fact.
    Nobel Laureate Prof I. Giaever calls current beliefs as pseudo-science clap trap.In 2012 Obama ignored this advice. Chemtrails are the furtive actions to watch.
    Taxes collected by some countries on climate change issues are said to have gone into the coffers of the Illuminati towards their dream of a world dictatorship.

  17. Ken says:

    These climate change people make me cringe. Humans have existed for a tiny tiny speck of time on this planet. We have no idea of what is “normal’. I live in Indiana in the states. We know from geology that Indiana has had glaciers, a rainforest, and been covered by sea water. Can someone please tell me which one is normal?

  18. the blame-e says:

    Sea levels actually rising instead of falling like we have been told all along by all these professional politicians and their wholly owned scientists.

    The simple explanation: “It’s Trump’s fault.”

    Now the Artic is actually growing more sea ice instead of less as we have been told by all these professional politicians and their wholly owned scientists.

    The simple explanation: “It’s Trump’s fault.”

    If I was being lied to as much as these professional politicians and their scientists are, then I would view all these Climate Change and Global Warming accords and agreements, and all the expensive steps that musts be taken for what they are — pure, crass, cynical, political attempts, using any excuse out there (the weather this time), to add yet another revenue stream (because taxes are never enough), just so these professional politicians and their scientists can fund their endless wars, can kick back and not have to do any real work, and satiate their endless greed and avarice for fat pensions and free health care for themselves.

    The simple explanation: “It’s Trump’s fault?”

  19. Jeffk says:

    “Melting permafrost unlocking diseases” LOL !!
    More like unlocking new cures for cancer, etc. but we can’t let that get into the press release!

  20. Chuck Pace says:

    The mere fact that those who espouse this nonsense are ramping up efforts to actually go after and punish the so called deniers, is all you need to know about this evil Progressive religion. It is a vehicle for Tyranny pure and simple.

  21. ALEX RYNKIEWICZ says:

    the glaciers on Greenland are 5 miles thick—idiot press—when have the fake news press even showed the 5 mi thick glaciers on Greenland—

  22. Al Bore says:

    Are all of the polar bears dead yet?

    • Adamant de-Nye-er says:

      Amazingly, polar bears evolved to survive in their changing environment. Funny how they were able to do that in just a few short years, and all without government intervention.

    • Colorado Wellington says:

      This polar bear became a victim of global warming and died in 2013.

      Photographer Ashley Cooper said that “it was very sad and very moving to see”.

      Climate scientists Michael E. Mann and Albert A. Gore Jr. are also very sad because other polar bears didn’t die and failed to comply with the prediction of the catastrophic demise of the whole species. Nobel Prize recipient and celebrated zoologist Dr. Gore was so moved by this misfortune that he refused to include polar bear animations in his latest movie.

      Polar bear biologist Dr. Susan Crockford documented the whole sequence of tragic events in her video The Death of a Climate Icon.

  23. dudefromDixie says:

    Wow, I can finally sleep well again. What a bunch of fooey. So even if CO2 is increasing, and even if it is affecting the weather, and even if burning fossil fuels is partly to blame, we are not going to wake up one morning and find the world has ended. Man can find rational ways to cope and deal with the problems without giving up our lifestyle. For those climate change doomsayers out there I’d be much more worried about the collapse of western civilization from liberalism, muslim terrorism, or nuclear proliferation in the middle east or NK than I would be about global warming.

  24. JC says:

    Storm coming next week, not to worry, we will send a bus for you. NOT.

    You can just lay down like a sheep and be eaten with no complaint or you can chase off a bear like a crazy ally cat. Attitude.

  25. Vince says:

    Posting inconvenient FACTS will soon be punishable by death if the global warming Nazis get their way.

  26. Al D says:

    I hope Trump sends out an honest team to thoroughly investigates the ice buildup on both hemispheres. I don’t want Trump to backtrack on our withdrawal from the Paris Climate Accord. Those bloodsucking globalists owe us enough as it is for all we’ve done for them during the last century.

    • Gail Combs says:

      President Trump likes to play with his enemies.

      For example, just before DACA was to go to court (and get shot down) he ended DACA with a few months leniency for the NON-CRIMINALS. (He always said we would start by deporting the criminals illegal invaders first so this is NOT a change, only a reasonable approach.)

      Then he lobbed the DACA grenade right into the lap of the Uni-party (Republicans and Democrats) by saying it had to be legislation not an E.O. to be Constitutional. (Realize Cantor got creamed in an election because of Amnesty. Most voters HATE Amnesty and Illegals are one of the major reasons Trump was elected.)

      Then he rubbed salt in the Republican’s wound by meeting with the Democrats and getting a 3 month and not the desired 18 month gov. spending extension. (18 months puts the budget and dept ceiling mess AFTER the 2018 elections.)

      Now that grenade just went BOOM! all over Nancy Pelosi. Snicker.
      When you do a faked demonstration set-up, make sure the ferals you are using don’t have a DIFFERENT AGENDA. Other wise telling security to stand down just might not be such a good idea.

      Nancy Pelosi’s Dreamers turn into La Raza SCREAMERS DEMANDING amnesty for ALL. —OOPS. Not good Optics Nancy and it made it onto Tucker Carlson’s show. 😸
      Perfect Electoral Optics – Nancy Pelosi Ambushed by Angry Screaming “Dreamers” – Security Escort Away From Stage

      Speaking of Trump, Ben Garrison does another great cartoon:

      https://i2.wp.com/www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2017/09/15/20170918_swap.jpg

      • Mark Fife says:

        Exactly! And Scoop Head Schumer thought he an MacBotox Pelosi had scored big. Really!! You just spent over a year trying to convince everyone Trump is a Nazi white supremacist radical Christian fundamentalist Satan worshiping misogynist from the KKK who must be resisted as a moral imperative and anyone who associates with him is the same or worse. Mainly taking this approach to appeal to the most intolerant and unforgiving people on the planet, the oh so tolerant and inclusive progressive left. Then what do you do? Sit down to have tea and crumpets with the Satan Hitler Televangelist incarnate, make nice, and offer him concessions! Nobody but nobody turns on and eats their own like the SJW class.

        Meanwhile, most Trumpers I think understand he can’t move ahead fighting both Democrats and the even more despised Rinos and other never Trumpers. They proved that this summer with Obamacare. The republican elite in the Senate love Obamacare, big government, and corruption just as much as the elite Democrats. They are all one and the same.

        • Gail Combs says:

          Yes, And the Deplorables are already making plans to give the RINOs the boot during the primaries.

          So far I have gathered this info:
          Go to this link and get involved and complete the form to be a volunteer.
          http://citizensfortrump.com/get-involved/

          —> beapc.com. The website gives links and is a good resource that people can use to get involved at the local level.

          (wwwDOT)fairus.org/legislation/federal/115th_legislation
          FAIR, the Federation for American Immigration Reform is a non-profit, non-partisan organization of concerned individuals who believe that our immigration laws must be reformed. If you aren’t familiar with Fair they have 1.3 million members and 50 organizations.

          GOP leadership must go…
          http://theresurgent.com/gop-leadership-must-go/

          http://www.votemaga.com
          is being built by T_Donald Reddit kids to share info about candidates running in 2017 and 2018 primaries.

          President Trump has already shown if a Republican (Flake) refuses to support the party platform, HE will refuse to support that Republican when he comes up for re-election.

          • Gail Combs says:

            And just in case you were curious

            Republican Party Platform 2016
            “With this platform, we the Republican Party
            reaffirm the principles that unite us in a common purpose.”
            … RIIIiiiight, tell us another one.

          • Mark Fife says:

            “What the GOP leadership is committed to, is being re-elected. That and bringing in bucket loads of campaign cash. Toward that end, they resist any vote which will potentially endanger their standing in DC.”

            Change this to GOP and DNC leadership and you have it almost completely described. Add “cashing in by any means” and you have it. Look at Obama, the anti Wall Street champion of the oppressed, cashing in on book deals and speaking fees. He is nothing more than Bill Clinton Jr.

  27. Al D says:

    Yes, the climate will change. If the leftist minions who fall for the lies being dished out by their heroes really believe them, they should be calling for a reduction of land, sea, and air pollution. That excludes CO2, of course, which is necessary for plants and bacteria that depend on it for their very existence. The very best way to deal with the pollution problem is population control. Just what do they think will happen if the population of the U.S., Canada, and Europe is allowed to double during this century, even under strict pollution control?

  28. Ice Bergenstein says:

    when Hurricane Irma was bearing down upon me, i was listening to the Tampa NPR station for updates and they were doing a fine job with direction, windspeed et….. oh, but wait, what’s this? they have a guest on who’s pushing “global warming” WHILE THE HURRICANE IS ON THE GROUND IN FLORIDA. no more up-to-the-minute, potential life-saving hurricane track, nothin…. it was like they were saying: “well, global warming deniers, y’all are going to DIE NOW because of your stubbornness.” i was mad and called the station and curse the hell out of them.

    so, why are the global warming hoaxers so intent on fudging data and lying to us about this nonsense? so that they can override our laws and constitution with international treaties, THAT’S WHY. if successful they will use it as a precedent to destroy our entire bill of rights. no free speech, no guns, no NUTHIN and as an added bonus, they can carbon tax individuals and give that money to a fabricated international agency.. “no taxation without representation” will be gone.. THAT’S THE SCHEME! and they are so dead-set on this goal that they will LIE AND SKEW DATA to alarm people into accepting this idiocy. a white back on this same NPR (National Propaganda Radio) station they actually had a guest on who claimed that “global warming” would cause the earth to become unstable on its axis and wobble. the depths of their skullduggery in this regard have no bounds….

  29. Paul says:

    From the comments I have read on this site, either for or against the idea of man made climate change it appears that most here are kneeling down at the alter of Scientism rather than actually participating in science.

    • Gail Combs says:

      “….most here are kneeling down at the alter of Scientism rather than actually participating in science….”

      What in Hades are you talking about? Many of us here are degreed scientists and engineers and I for one have worked in my field for over thirty years. I read science papers for a HOBBY instead of watching the Boob Tube.

      Now if you have something intelligent to say, say it instead of spewing Bafflegab.

      • Colorado Wellington says:

        From the tone of his comment it appears that Paul had already said the most intelligent thing he could think of …

    • Gator says:

      The word is “altar” genius, and many of us here have scientific training, I was a climatology student right after the ice age scare and right before the great global warming swindle.

    • sunsettommy says:

      Paul,

      Why is it always so hard for people like YOU,to post a detailed comment over something you object to?

      • Gail Combs says:

        People like Paul only have ‘sound bites’ and FEEEEEeeeelings. The have no real understanding of the subject they passionately protest about.

  30. SAMURAI says:

    Arctic Ice Extents and Greenland Land Ice are closely correlated to PDO/AMO 30-yr warm/cool cycles.

    From around 2019, both the PDO and AMO will be in their respective 30-year cool cycles and Arctic Ice Extents will slowly recover by around 100,000 M^2/yr for the next 30 years and return to their late 1970’s levels…

    The Arctic Sea Ice loss from 1980 was almost entirely caused by the PDO entering its 30-yr warm cycle in 1980 and the AMO warm cycle which started from 1994…. CO2 levels had almost nothing to do with it…

    It’ll be interesting to see what excuses Leftists come up with to explain away the Arctic Ice recovery that’s already started… I’m sure they’ll be hilarious.

    • Gail Combs says:

      OH, I am SO looking forward to the turning of the PDO and AMO combined with a sleepy sun AND President Trump. Karma is a real Biotch!

      http://appinsys.com/GlobalWarming/PDO_AMO.htm“>Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) + Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO)
      “…The following figure shows the combined effect of PDO and AMO on drought in the United States…”

      • spren says:

        While I understand your sentiments, living in New England won’t necessarily be much fun when things turn colder.

        I actually wish the warmists were correct that we were going to continue warming (despite having to listen to their shreiks ). I could wear short sleeves all year and not get gouged on bills for my heating oil fillups. We are already colder than I like and the thought of it becoming even worse is very depressing.

        • Gail Combs says:

          I got smart and Hubby and I moved out of the Boston area to the Research Triangle Park area of North Carolina. It is just north of where it gets insufferably hot and just south of where it always snows.

          If you look at the environment for North Carolina
          “…28,000-25,000 14C y.a.; shortly before Last Glacial Maximum. In the eastern USA, conditions may have been generally drier than today. A xeric scrub cover existed in Florida at this time, instead of the present forest (Watts & Stuiver 1980). In Maryland (38N, 75W) pollen evidence indicates pine-birch barrens or spruce parkland dominating after 30,000 14C years ago (Wells 1992 p.612), and it is possible that most of the eastern USA had an open wooded vegetation cover at this time.

          Delcourt & Delcourt (1981) give a summary map for the eastern USA at 25,000 y.a., showing spruce and jack pine forest extending south to about the latitude of Washington DC, and thinning out into forest-steppe west of the Mississippi River. A mixed cool temperate forest belt seems to have existed across the south Appalachian region. From South Carolina southwards to northern Florida, oak-hickory and southern pine forests are suggested as having survived….”

          https://web.archive.org/web/20160528141643im_/http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/NAm2825kyrsm.gif

          “This vegetation map showing the eastern USA during the period 28,000-25,000 14C y.a. has been compiled by Paul & Hazel Delcourt. An ice sheet already covered most of Canada and extended south of the Great Lakes. Boreal conifer woodlands and forests predominated in what is now the cool temperate forest zone, and the cool and warm temperate forest belts were compressed southwards….”

          Compiled by Jonathan Adams, Environmental Sciences Division, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Oak Ridge, TN

  31. hyedenny says:

    Kelvin (nor Celsius, not Fahrenheit) is not a unit, it’s a scale. You lose.

  32. Simon Platt says:

    This business about the surface mass balance at Greenland: is that graph telling me that Greenland has gained snow at least almost every year since 1981, and lost snow never or almost never during that time? That Greenland has been gaining snow consistently and continuously for at least 36 years?

    • Gail Combs says:

      The second graph shows gain and loss throughout the year. “Greenland’s surface gained ten times as much ice as it did five years ago” refers to the net amount of ice at the end of the summer melt season.

      • Simon Platt says:

        Yes. But it seems to me that the right-hand side is always higher than the left-hand side, even in the extreme case of 2011/12, which I think means that Greenland has never lost ice, year-on-year, for at least the last 36 years.

  33. Dave says:

    SI units for temperature are in K ( Kelvin) not C or F. They are equally valid measurements.

  34. I’m not going to lie, global warming would put me out of business. This is awesome news for my business of taking Ice off Roofs

    • Gail Combs says:

      Fred, I doubt you will be going out of business any time soon.

      • Fred says:

        I actually own a snow removal website also, and all this global warming talk really gives me anxiety, it’s like a plan global eletist have to put the snow plow guys out of business.

        • Gail Combs says:

          Look at it this way, it will put your competition out of business before they even start.

          March 23, 2017 Russian Scientists Dismiss ‘Global Warming’, Predict Decades Of Cooling

          Australian Scientist, Dr David Evans also predicts cooling The Notch-Delay Solar Theory: Natural influences mostly explain recent global warming. The 2020s will be cooler than the 1980s.

          Main Message

          Global temperatures will come off the current plateau into a sustained and significant cooling, beginning 2017 or maybe as late as 2021. The cooling will be about 0.3 °C in the 2020s, taking the planet back to the global temperature that prevailed in the 1980s. This was signaled (though not caused) by a fall in underlying solar radiation starting in 2004, one of the three largest falls since 1610 when records started. There is a delay of one sunspot cycle, currently 13 years (2004+13 = 2017).

          Please note that even if this solar hypothesis and prediction prove to be wrong, the identification of the errors in the conventional climate models and the finding that carbon dioxide is not the main cause of recent global warming are still correct.

          And for a smile:
          https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7BTnRqeqVxo/Usw2ugazZ8I/AAAAAAAA2Vw/Up68eQgj6Aw/s320/mother_nature_denies_global_warming.jpg

        • Gator69 says:

          How does one remove snow with a website? I mean, I know it can be done with computer models..

        • Gail Combs says:

          Fred,
          If you need a pick-me-up, go to the Ice Age Now Website. Robert Felix lists the cold events that never ever make it into the news.

          Robert gives Tony a shout out for this article.
          “Thanks to Tony Heller for his unceasing work in exposing the global-warming fraud.”

          Robert also has up this :
          “…Mexico Should Beware the Little-Ice-Age Cycle

          According to research by Dr. Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera of the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico, falling solar radiation indicates that our planet is now entering a mini ice age, a mini ice age that will last between 60 and 80 years….’ link

        • Colorado Wellington says:

          Fred, stop fretting and look at the new opportunity like an entrepreneur. A rational response is to hedge your bets and diversify.

          You must start a venture to build settlements in the Arctic for the few breeding pairs of people that will survive after global warming kills off the remaining billions. In the meantime, while we are still transitioning to subtropical weather in the Arctic, your current business can keep clearing the snow for them.

          It’s a win-win for you.

  35. Psalmon says:

    Good mention and reference of this story by Rush Limbaugh toward end of the third hour today. Truth is getting out. Keep up the great work!

  36. Ron Oates says:

    Mark Fife says: “Yet some really cool people speak over a I,IV,V major progression by smoothly segueing between major and minor pentatonic. Now that is major coolness. And minor as well.”

    Bubble-bursting time… The really, really cool people speak over a 1, 6m, 4, (4/5 5) and sometimes over a 3b, 2m, 6b, 7b and back to the 1.

  37. Eliza says:

    Farenheit is far more precise than metric. All broiler chicken hatcheries everywhere use Farenheit

    • Gail Combs says:

      Celcius
      Boiling water = 100
      Freezing water = 0
      (100 divisions)

      Farenheit
      Boiling water = 212
      Freezing water = 32
      (180 divisions)

      AND the weather bureau LOVES to convert from F to C and then back to F to ‘adjust’ temperatures by using rounding errors. Found that out a few years ago.

  38. Kingbum says:

    If the Arctic Sea Ice was indeed in a death spiral and there was no hope of recovery you’d think in 5 years we would pass the minimum extent mark set in 2012 right? Especially if 2016 and 2017 are the two hottest years ever we should have blown past that record, if what we are being told makes any sense at all. That’s not what happened at all. In fact instead of using the commonly used extent metric let’s use volume. 2012 minimum was approximately 3500km^3……2017 was approximately 4500km^3…..again a pretty big gain on the widely accepted record. So I ask again where is all this supposed heat energy? The ice doesn’t lie….It showed we warmed up from 1979 to 1998….It showed a leveling off to a steady melt to 2012….Now it’s showing an attempt to recover which means it’s been cooling off in reality in recent years

  39. litesong says:

    AGW denier liar whiners often compare 2012 Arctic sea ice loss because, that year, unusual wind directions transported lots of sea ice out of the Arctic before it melted. It was remarked about by compilers at the time. AGW denier liar whiners have been whining about 2012 every since.

  40. litesong says:

    Here’s yer answer Kingbum:
    2017 Arctic sea ice VOLUME was ~ 5000 cubic kilometers. Arctic sea ice average VOLUME for the 1980’s was ~ 15,200 cubic kilometers. Arctic sea ice VOLUME loss was ~10200 cubic kilometers. The energy needed to melt such a volume of ice is ~ 35 times the annual energy consumption of the U.S. This Arctic sea ice loss occurred with the solar TSI languid for many decades & low for 10+ years (including a 3+ year period in which TSI set a 100 year record low).

    • AndyG55 says:

      lite-of-brain obviously knows NOTHING about cycles such as the AMO. Thinks the ocean heated in the tropics doesn’t have a lag time.

      Obviously just another PIG-IGNORANT fool that doesn’t know that current Arctic sea ice levels are still in the top 90-95% of the extent of the last 10,000 years after a RECOVERY from the EXTREMES of the LIA and late 1970.

      There is NO EXCUSE for your IGNORANCE, lite-of -brain.

      Your IGNORANCE is YOUR choice.

      You could fix it , if you had the brains to do it…..

      …. so looks like you are out of luck. !!

    • AndyG55 says:

      “The energy needed to melt such a volume of ice is ”

      ROFLMAO

      That volume of ice MELTS and REFREEZES every year, you MORON

    • AndyG55 says:

      And you do know that the so-called “mass” is based on a highly AGW biased model, don’t you ???

      Or are you IGNORANT of that as well.

      Stick to EXTENT or AREA.

      And be very glad the world isn’t still back in the LIA.

      Bet you live in some warm inner city latte ghetto, don’t you.

      Fossil Fuel heating in winter.?

      A bit of honesty to yourself., if you are capable of it.

  41. Robert Pastor says:

    Dam those plastic straws

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