Ojmjakon, Russia
http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/24688.html?MR=1
That is minus 70C.
Can you feel the permafrost melting?
Disrupting the Borg is expensive and time consuming!
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-94F
Shows you how naive I am, I didn’t even think it could get that cold!
The record breaker was -128F in Antarctica. Didn’t know that.
I can’t imagine 100 degrees below zero………………
If it’s so friggin hot up there, where is all this cold air coming from?
Leftovers from the hottest year ever in 2010.
I think all the horrible C02 mankind has pumped into the atmosphere has reached it’s solid state.
At What Temperature Does CO2 Freeze?. CO2, otherwise known as carbon dioxide, freezes at negative 109.3 degrees F
Only at 1 atm partial pressure.
-Scott
Partial pressure doesn’t change the freezing point. It affects the frost point.
So the boiling point of liquid water is 100 C in Fort Collins?
-Scott
You are mixing up atmospheric pressure with partial pressure of water. The boiling point is not affected by the humidity.
And with carbon dioxide, assuming it is well-mixed in the atmosphere, partial pressure is exactly proportional to the atmospheric pressure.
In fact, there is no “freezing point” (more like deposition here) without first defining the partial pressure of the compound of interest. The partial pressure must be defined first. That much is obvious by looking at any phase diagram:
http://www.teamonslaught.fsnet.co.uk/co2%20phase%20diagram.GIF
The freezing condition isn’t just one temperature…it’s a combination of temp and pressure.
And the appropriate definition here is 390 ppm of 1 atm (or in Fort Collins, more like 390 ppm of 0.82 atm), so you’ll have to be much colder than -109 F.
-Scott
Only in a closed system. The atmosphere is definitely not a closed system.
So at what temperature does CO2 freeze out in Antarctica?
-Scott
It freezes at the freezing point, but it accumulates at the frost point, which is much lower. When you are above the frost point, the number of molecules sublimating is >= the number of molecules freezing.
An individual molecule has no knowledge of the partial pressure.
Good, you’ve moved over to the molecular view, which is where I wanted to go next. The “freezing point” at any given partial pressure is where:
rate(sublimation) = rate(deposition)
As you’ve pointed out, in Antarctica there is deposition going on, and there is also sublimation going on. At these low pressures, sublimation is far faster than deposition.
However, even above -109.3 F, there is still deposition going on! Technically, there is deposition going on at room temperature too, it’s just a tiny amount that is far outweighed by the sublimation. Deposition doesn’t just start automatically at -109.3 F and only accumulate at 1 atm or higher partial pressure. Deposition annd sublimation always coexist, with the sublimation rate being essentially independent of the partial pressure whereas the deposition rate is effectively proportional to the partial pressure. When they are equal, that’s the “freezing point”.
-Scott
I would call that the frost point. We have many nights where the air temperature is below the freezing point of water, but no frost accumulates.
Well at this point it’s just arguing nomenclature/language.
What you call the frost point I would call the deposition point for a given partial pressure of water (basically saying that frost accumulates when the vapor pressure of water, which depends on temperature, reaches or goes below the current partial pressure of water in the air, aka absolute humidity).
Anyway, in answer to your Mike’s original question (in case you got confused by the above), CO2 frost does not form in Antarctica because the -109.3 F value is only true for 1 atm partial pressure of CO2. The actual pressure of CO2 in Antarctica is much lower, so the sublimation rate is always much higher than the deposition rate.
-Scott
I suggest a grassroots campaign to have Hanson and his cabal transferred to a research station in Alaska. Sarah will deal with ’em.
Does anyone else think a delegation from the IPCC should be despatched to observe this potentially record-breaking event first-hand?
The entire group of those that have been selected to be lead authors. They should be fitted out with the latest in “Jungle Fatigues” fit for tropical habitation!
“observe this potentially record-breaking event first-hand?”
Nah, why would they leave their villas overlooking a topless beach just to go back into reality?
You wouldn’t want this kind of thing happening
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7553/frozengore.jpg
would you?
Silly question + and I know everone will tell me the answer immediately + make me look stupid – BUT
The coldest temperature is supposed to be “absolute zero”. But why can’t you get colder than that? After all there is no maximum temp.
Absolute zero is where the molecules stop moving.
A short answer is because there is no such thing as cold, only the absence of heat.
Absolute zero is the point at which there is total absence of heat.
Not really what your talking about, but I remember reading about this in PChem several years ago. It’s not colder than absolute zero, but it is negative absolute temperature:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_temperature
-Scott
very interesting, thanks scott
Somebody must have left their refrigerator door open or something.
It was those researchers in Greenland that left the “fridge” open when they left for the winter. The warming in Greenland is driving the cold to Antarctica as cold air falls to the lowest region of thew globe before it drips off through the hole in the Ozone layer!
LOL
-94F! Are you bloody serious! Is there a typo?
The coldest I’ve ever felt was -40F. That was painful in minutes to a boy going outside in a t-shirt just to see how it would go.
Oh, but wait, this is a result of “global warming”. Haven’t you heard the latest ‘science’?
BTW, where are the global warmers? Come out, come out…………. wherever you are. You got frozen in your global warming?
Are there any “global warmers” left? lol
They all moved to Bulgaria to escape the cold. And then it got cold in Bulgaria too.
Hold it together Jim, 2010 really is the hottest year ever. Just think of that hot room in 1988. There, feel better? Maybe the next time you are in that room the AC will be on so you won’t sweat so much from the questions they’re asking about your data being different than everyone elses.
The Summit temp. record in Greenland -61 C
So a -90 F hasn’t been officially recorded in the NH since 1933. Over 77 years since that was recorded? Wow. Do you know if these recordings will be official?
Supposedly, unofficial values of -108 F were recorded there at some point.
http://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/coldest-temperature-ever-recorded.php
The thing is, the official records (three values of -90 F) were all recorded in early February, so presumably that’s the coldest part of the year there. With a full month before Feb is reached, it might yet get colder.
-Scott
I believe the record official low timperature record for Siberia is -90 set in 1933. So if these forecasts verify, a long standing record is going to be not merely broken, but shattered.
Today’s forecast has moderated a bit. They’re now calling for a low of -88F on Thursday so it appears a record might not be broken after all.
http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/24688.html