If there really are more molecules of H2O in the atmosphere than there used to be, that would mean that the total weight of the atmosphere is greater than it used to be – even if the density is lower. More total weight means higher average atmospheric pressure.
I have been doing some investigation of this and have found no evidence so far to support an increase in atmospheric pressure. Is anyone aware of any studies on this subject?
Might an increase in H20 in the troposphere also increase its average height?
It would have to.
Sorry this is OT but in a previous thread you had responded to my post on the potential for vast sums of energy from Methane Clathrates so I thought you might be interested in this.
http://thegwpf.org/energy-news/5614-the-methane-hydrates-revolution-successful-natural-gas-extraction-test-is-a-qgame-changerq.html
It seems the only limitations of man continue to be those that are self-imposed and propagated by fools like Paul Erlich. 🙂
Sundance, that’s an awesome article. Add that to the recent shale break thru and it’s clear we have no energy shortage. Time for everyone to start asking questions.
Not necessarily. Gravity only extends out so far. Increasing water vapor should mean the atmosphere becomes denser, and therefore pressure should increase. Either that, or the pressure on the inner area of the atmosphere increases to push out the outer vapor into space and then the balance is re-established, but I don’t think there’s enough pressure the vapor in the inner area could exert to overcome gravity holding in the outer layer.
I thought a Recent article stated NASA has recorded clouds shifting lower in the Troposphere in the last decade. This seems clear evidence of cooling.
http://ossfoundation.us/projects/environment/global-warming/southern-oscillation-soi
http://www.awi.de/en/news/press_releases/detail/item/folgt/?cHash=1b63419646171417ea4df6002b4d1b5d
http://cookislands.bishopmuseum.org/showarticle.asp?id=18
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2010/05/
Steven, I posted a several links that might help….barometric pressure charts
check moderation hell….
If there is an effect, it would be tiny and negligible compared to numerous other factors, and probably not measurable given the signal-to-noise ratio. I have no idea if there are studies, and if there were atmospheric pressure readings across the globe for many years. My guess is that the accuracy of the pressure sensors over the years would be poorer than that of simple thermometers, and that the data would be useless (even moreso than the corrupted incomplete repeatedly-adjusted temp record).
The simple observations that baseball flight distance depends mostly on velocity off the bat, ball spin (thus altering the trajectory), altitude (e.g. you don’t want to be a pitcher in Denver), wind direction and speed, relative humidity, absolute temperature, in no particular order.
There is very accurate barometric pressure data going back at least 60 years. A 10% increase in H2O would be very noticeable.
So would a 10% increase in temperature (and I’m talking Kelvin).
What is the purported increase in the amount of water vapor in the air (conservative and alarmist estimates)? Given the tiny temp increase over the 60 years, is the increase in water vapor that much? I don’t know.
This seems to be an interesting thought experiment.
Increasing temperature won’t increase the average pressure. The pressure is determined by the weight of the atmosphere above you.
I meant a 10% increase in temp would be noticable, as compared to the 1 degree magnitude claimed by AGW alarmists.
Temperature is a factor in the ideal gas equation –> (P1*V1)/T1 = (P2*V2)/T2. There is a direct relationship that as temperature goes up, within a closed-in area, since the volume is constant, pressure must also go up. We could debate whether the atmosphere is “closed-in”, since it is open to space, but it does have a limit of area of only so far as the earth’s gravity extends… but I wouldn’t know how much atmospheric pressure is needed to overcome that gravity.
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=active&tbm=isch&tbnid=QYyHDCOkXu-6yM:&imgrefurl=http://www.sciencemag.org/content/327/5970/1219/F3.expansion.html&docid=WJENUM7-1T1PAM&imgurl=http://www.sciencemag.org/content/327/5970/1219/F3.large.jpg&w=1280&h=759&ei=xbaiT6joJ4am9ASako30CA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=100&vpy=241&dur=3249&hovh=173&hovw=292&tx=46&ty=190&sig=104274783103247965050&page=1&tbnh=125&tbnw=211&start=0&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0,i:88&biw=960&bih=689
it comes up in google search….but the link is broken when you click on it
http://tinyurl.com/
lol 🙂
water vapor and barometric pressure history graph……
http://objectivistindividualist.blogspot.com/2010/10/water-not-co2-controls-earth-ir.html
Steven just in case you didn’t see these……looks like water vapor is falling
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/06/18/a-window-on-water-vapor-and-planetary-temperature/
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/06/21/a-window-on-water-vapor-and-planetary-temperature-part-2/
As I pilot I recall we were taught that dry air is denser than moist air. Dry air most definitely provides better lift than moist air. The primary constituents of the atmosphere, nitrogen molecules (which are composed of two nitrogen atoms) and oxygen molecules (composed of two oxygen atoms), are both heavier than water molecules. So an increase in water vapor will, counterintuitively, result in a decrease in absolute pressure.
The density decreases, but an overall increase in H20 would cause the thickness of the atmosphere and the average pressure to increase. With lighter molecules you need more pressure to achieve the same density.
http://www.climate4you.com/
So during the cold part of the ice age with sea level 120m lower and most of the moisture locked up in land ice and more dust in the air , atmospheric pressure at sea level in the tropics would be higher.