An irreversible climate “tipping point” could occur within the next 20 years as a result of the release of huge quantities of organic carbon locked away as frozen plant matter in the vast permafrost region of the Arctic, scientists have found.
Warming threat to the frozen ground of the arctic: Click here to download the graphic (80k)
Billions of tons of frozen leaves and roots that have lain undisturbed for thousands of years in the permanently frozen ground of the northern hemisphere are thawing out, with potentially catastrophic implications for climate change, the researchers said
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Amazing what nonsense one can concoct when unencumbered by reality.
And it gets published. What a scam.
It’s the Commo U.K. Independent – What else do you expect?
What’s amazing is how you will forget you ever said this in 10, let alone 20 years.
Perhaps you’ve forgotten what doomsayers have been saying for 10-20 years…
http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/paintimage834.jpg
Do you have some other specific predictions that can be falsified or proven correct? Or is all you have shouting, alarmism and faith?
As if you will care to remember those fantastic predictions of the ice cap returning to 1979 extent and thickness in a few years. That was a couple of years ago on WUWT.
As for predictions that can be quantified and proven true they have been right in front of your face all along. Don’t bother asking me what they are because if you can’t recognize them by now you never will.
BS….. you’ve never once supplied proof of that. I’ve looked and can’t find it.
190 gigatons of additional CO2 by 2200. This is recycled nonsense from the past as I recall trying to explain to a maths challenged individual just how little 190 gigatons actually is and how the Chinese will soon be adding that much CO2 over a 19 year period or less by themselves.
That is an excellent point………….
and if you include India, Russia, and the majority of countries that are considered “developing”…it will probably be around 2-3 years
Are you using Calculatus Eliminatus to figure that out?
The Carbon stores are being converted to Methane which is a far more powerful greenhouse gas (except in the alternative universe that some seem to reside in).
“frozen plant matter in the vast permafrost region of the Arctic”
Further proof that it was warmer in the past.
I’m sure these loons don’t realise what they’re saying sometimes..
Further proof that it was warmer in the past.
Reality check. Those plants would have decomposed right away if it was warm and thus would not have had a chance to accumulate to those depths in the first place.
The plants built up because the environment was cold enough to keep it from decomposing.
The plants built up because the environment was cold enough to keep it from decomposing.
Reality check. But not cold enough to freeze the ground.
Holy crap ill….!!!!! Do you read what you write?
“organic carbon” as opposed to inorganic carbon
My wife bought some “organic sea salt”. I tried to explain that NaCl . . . oh never mind.
You mean like inorganic sugar?
It’s still a step better than the “all natural” fad we endured.
“Ah, natural pop-corn, which is so utterly unlike that pop-corn that’s made from imaginary magic and alien space lasers.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSLHvZnbYwc&feature=related
Dunning Krugerites may now ridicule the basic laws of physics by claiming Methane isn’t capable of retaining the amount of energy claimed by those evil Socialist/Fascist/Marxist/Nihislist/Communist scientists.
Methane is also measured in ppb, at less than one thousandths of the levels of CO2, measured in ppm. It would take nonexistent, huge amounts of methane to even begin to match the pathetic 0.010 deg F of warming that CO2 might be contributing.
Also, the assumption, unmentioned, is that methane builds up. It, like CO2, has a fairly short half-life (CO2 is about 5 years) in the atmosphere—world methane levels have been decreasing steadily for years, except for large volcanic eruption emission events.
This is a tempest in a teapot.
Im sure you’ve (not) done the math to calculate how many gigatons of Methane released in a specific (short) period of time.
Regardless of how many “physicks” you’ve taken to-day, methane isn’t capable of retaining the amount of heat you claim it will, because it hasn’t. If it could, it would have already, ipso facto.
First, it has been found that, as permafrost melts, it does not release methane and sit there and rot. It bursts to life and becomes an active carbon sink.
Second, tipping points do not exist. If they existed, they would have already happened as it has been much warmer in the past and CO2 has been much higher than now during three periods of the last 200 years.
Tipping points are the warmists’ version of the boogeyman in the closet to scare young children; tipping points are to scare the gullible, ignorant, and yes, young children.
Right on, Higley, especially your point# 2. I constantly bring up that “inconvenient” point in discussions and blogs with AGW’ers and never have they refuted or even responded to it, usually changing the subject or flinging strawmen.
Where is the portal to your alternative universe?
You don’t even make a pathetic attempt to validate your contrarian views. What does that video show if not methane which bubbled up from a lake bed?
When permafrost melts the plant material within it’s matrix of soil and water gets decomposed by anaerobic bacteria. Are you going to tell real scientists, who know more about microbiology than all of us put together, what permafrost biochemistry does and does not do?
Of course you are. You know better than anyone who contradicts the slightest point you make.
You may thus ignore the video below which shows what happens to permafrost when it melts. After all, you ignored the last video which shows ignited methane leaping up in a column of flame 6+ feet high.
Nothing is real in solipsistic wonderland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKyRHDFKEXQ
Methane contributes almost nothing to the greenhouse effect on earth
IWB, the permafrost has been melting since the end of the LIA…….. get a grip and catch a clue. Jeez man, are you one of those that believes every blathering idiocy that comes from the warmista scietifica?
I read recently the “as the tundra warms, the tree-line will advance north by up to 500 km in the next 100 years”. That’s 5 km each year. Pretty fast movers, those trees. I also read, which is more relevant, that as surface permafrost melts, low scrub grows, shielding the soil from the sun, and preserving the permafrost below. Ultimately of course, the lower permafrost will melt, but it’ll be a much slower process than claimed by some.
If the tree line advances 500km in the next one hundred years it will reach where it was during the MWP! That would be nice!
“After all, you ignored the last video which shows ignited methane leaping up in a column of flame 6+ feet high.”
What, is that supposed to be scary or something? I do that in the chemistry class I teach … put 30 mL of methanol or ethanol in a 20L plastic jug, swirl it for a mintue, then ignite the vapor with a burning splint and voila … a column of flame shooting up to the ceiling (over 6 feet).
Seriously Ill Wind, I’ve seen those two videos before, several times – they are old news. Like every other AGW scare, it is worse this time … it is scarier this time … it is happening faster this time … it is accelerating, blah, blah, blah. Paranoid?
I’ve seen people ignite swamp gas (on TV). Who cares? The hysterics and drama of the warmists is tedious to say the least. Let me know when something actually happens in this long sequence of promised interdependent unlikely to near impossible events.
IWB – If you are right the release of methane would have caused runaway warming in the MWP.
As it did not, you clearly need to go back to the drawing board.
The recovery from the last glaciation or any of the previous ones would have tipped the planet into a runaway situation.
Methane, truly the creation of the DEVIL!! We are all DOOMED! DENIERS and other non-believers must REPTENT!
In Dry Valley, located in the heart of Antarctica they found plants they dated to 38 million years ago that were freeze dried and have not thawed out to this day.
IWB is still FOS regarding the natural carbon cycle and the effect of heat and cold. Cold restricts the biotic activity that produces methane and warm allows the growth of biotic material that will eventually decompose releasing methane. Living in a temperate hard wood forest I see it every year.
To add to that, many of the glaciers that have melted in recent years have revealed tree stumps. Well Ill Wind, how did those tree stumps get there?
Ill Wind
I appreciate you coming here to display your Noble Cause Corruption.
Empiracal evidence shows that CAGW is a non-issue.
I personally do not know if you benifit from the corruption of science but obviously you continue to defend this false religion.
Do you believe in the hockey team and, in essence, the socialist agenda that CAGW depends on?
I served twenty years for my country and I believe in democracy and individual freedom. I have seen not one issue based on empiracle evidence that suggests that emmission of CO2 will cause catastrophic warming.
Maybe you have been brainwashed by indoctrination in the cult of guilt but do not continue to push your corrupted beliefs on others.
I have not seen a single point you have ever made on this blog that would support my reconcideration of CAGW.
People of your ilk tread on the very fabric this nation was founded on and you either better step up your game and provide appropriate evidence that CO2 will cause the oceans to rise 3 meters or temps to increase 3C or 5C over the next 90 years or find another cause.
I find it laughable that leftists do not consider the negative effects of taxing the very fuels that have resulted in the capability to have a green movement. It is cheap energy that drives people out of poverty and you would rather drive the poor deeper into poverty with wind turbines and solar. The only crime against humanity is the idiot left wing green know it alls with no true compassion for his fellow man.
“It is cheap energy that drives people out of poverty”
If only the greenies would get this point.
No one (other than the blind idiot followers of the high priests of AGW) doubts that it has been a lot warmer in the past. Whether it was 1000 years ago, or 1 million years ago, the earth was warmer in the past. If there was indeed a tipping point, it would have been reached then, and the world would be a burnt out cinder now (since once the tipping point is reached, there is no going back).
But the reality is that it has been warmer, it has been colder. And the cycle of life continues. let them argue that we are warming the planet. But only fools and idiots argue that we are approaching an intractable tipping point.
He who names himself “ill wind” cannot but help obsess about methane emanations, and I’m not making a joke.
No, he thinks he is being a cute Timothy Bottoms (I wonder where Bottoms is now that Obama is outbushing bush?)