Note the large amount of September 2007 ice in the Greenland Sea inside the red circle. This ice was being pushed out of the Arctic Basin and would melt in a matter of weeks.
In 2012, there is less ice in the Greenland Sea and more ice in the Arctic Basin – which is the ice we should “care about.” Just another reason with the “record minimum” is BS.
Location of the ice doesn’t mean that a record minimum in extent, area, and volume were not established. They were. JAXA and NSIDC in terms of extent, CT in terms of area, and the PIOMAS volume data are all in agreement about a record minimum.
The only ice that is important is in the Arctic basin, unless you are into meaningless statistics.
And why is CAB ice the only important ice? Methinks that any ice will reflect incoming SW radiation just fine… and it has been “skeptics” who have claimed that the low angle of the sun in the extreme north mutes the albedo effect. By that logic, more southerly ice would be more important, not less.
Who the hell cares? What difference does it make? Please explain….
It’s of no importance to anyone, it might actually be a net benefit to the planet if it continued. But to them it becomes deeply important. Reasons remain unclear, however. Something to do with Gaia I think.
It would just be interesting speculation if it wasn’t for the fact that governments are making decisions based on a belief in an unproven idea that is rebutted by natural variation.
1) The albedo effect makes ice loss a warming feedback. Less ice, more warming.
2) Water vapor feedback, ditto–water vapor is the best of all common greenhouse gases, remember? Lots more exposed in the Arctic means more in the atmosphere.
3) Loss of sea ice means loss of habitat for wildlife–yes, polar bears, but also seals. Hard to say what the loss of the top predators will do to the overall ecosystems; who knew, till we reintroduced wolves to Yellowstone, that that would bring back riverside alder populations?
4) 150,000 (or so) Innuit depend on ‘country food’ for up to 50% of their diet, so #3 will not just affect non-humans.
5) Arctic warming will–heck, has been–playing hob with human infrastructure up there, with coastal erosion, permafrost melt and more. Big expenses for residents.
6) Hemispheric circulation will be–may already be–affected. It seems likely at this point that slowing of the Jet Stream is one result of the Arctic warming. The result of that, in turn, is more ‘blocking events’, where weather systems just sit in one location for extended periods. That’s bad when precipitation is involved.
Just a quick once-over, since Squidly asked…
Steve, why are you showing a map from 25th September 2007 when it is only August currently?
Everyone download the avi file from here
http://www.iup.physik.uni-bremen.de:8084/amsr/Icefilm_Arctic.avi
and then go forward to 30th August 2007 and see at that date how little ice was being lost. Hardly any. So this claim above is false. It’s just clutching at straws and picking maps from a different time of the year to show something that is not true. Real science?
Basically you said it was not going to be a record year, it is, so now you claim it is BS. It’s called denial.
Andy
Yes Steve was wrong about this. Although usually he gets things right. But nobody has a perfect record when it comes to predicting the future, which is why I tend to reframe myself. Now if only alarmists could do the same…
What are you talking about? I am comparing against the 2007 minimum which according JAXA occurred on Sept 24.
I am referring to a prior statement you made that there was very little chance of hitting a record minimum.
Are you completely daft?
Not sure if you’re referring to me but you wanting to place $1000 bets with warmists if I remember correctly…
Still in denial. Sad to watch such pitiful efforts at denying the obvious.
Pathetic and lame.
The Arctic sea was clearly not growing until late September in 2007 it was still declining at this point in August.Those who believe in AGW cannot stand anyone looking at the data in any other way but the constrained way that they do.
Piomas is showing a new low on sea ice volume.
Steven, you are wrong with your claims about 2007, as you always are.
http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/2012/08/record-dominoes-9-piomas-sea-ice-volume.html
(warning to all regulars of this site: following this link will lead to a page that contains facts about the arctic sea ice. Beware!)
According to PIOMAS trends the Arctic will have zero ice in 2015
Your point?
August 30 arctic ice extent from NIC:
2007. 4.99 M sq miles
2012. 5.72 M sq miles
so you still found a source to cherrypick? wow!
Always good to have a second opinion, especially since the NIC charts have been analyzed to be more accurate this time of year.
Here come the Russians
“In winter, the newly formed ice actively grows up to a 1.2 meter thick layer, while the costal ice grows up to 2.0 meters. Consequently, the Arctic sea ice layer does not change significantly. Moreover, according to Genrikh Alekseev, in the summer, ice melts in various seas unequally. This year, the seas through which the Northern Shipping Route passes are covered with an unusually thicker ice layer. The Barents Sea is covered by a thin ice layer, but the amount of ice in the Kara, Laptev, East-Siberian and Chukotskiy seas exceeds the level of 2007. The conditions in the Arctic in the warm summer can be considered abnormal, but the Northern Shipping Route has not been completely freed from ice yet. This means icebreakers will be needed in the future, says the scientist.”
The extreme melting of ice in the summer 2012 is most likely the last gesture that the warming is ending. In fact, ice is a product of climate, and when comparing the graphs of the air temperature and melting ice, one can see that they coincide, Genrikh Alekseev said.
http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_08_31/Arctic-sea-ice-rejuvenating/
“In 2012, there is less ice in the Greenland Sea and more ice in the Arctic Basin – which is the ice we should ”care about.” Just another reason with the “record minimum” is BS.”
Arctic Basin sea ice area has hit a record minimum, too.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/recent365.anom.region.1.html
It looks to me like the minimum area of the ice in the Arctic Basin has dropped from about 3.25 million km^2 to just a little over 2 million km^2 so far this year, maybe a 35% drop. It looks like most of the drop has occurred since 2007, with the minumum area never returning to the pre 2007 levels at any time after 2007.
Not according to the National Ice Center, who is more accurate in late summer.