JAXA shows that we should have an ice-free Arctic in about the year infinity, which is why experts keep making fools out of themselves predicting dates from 2008 to 2030. Perhaps they have invented a new kind of ice which melts below 0C north of 80N after August 15.
Another possibility would be to declare ice-free to mean the area of Alaska, Texas, California and France combined.
With so much space left in the graph why not start in the 90ies?
or shorten it and start at 2009?
Thanks for demonstrating my point!
Suppose you are driving your car at 70 MPH and you hit a brick wall. Would that affect the velocity of your car?
Lol, Steve you know they have no concept of the present participle.
Intelligence free discussions will attract more progressive OWS types into the discussion. 🙂
“The Trend Towards An Intelligence-Free Discussion About The Arctic”
It’s worse than we thought…
So what is the quickest and safest route for shipping through the Arctic right now?
http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_daily_extent_hires.png
airfreight
A far better measurement for reflecting the long-term trend in Arctic conditions is the ice volume. Extent can vary enormously in a short amount of time with one big storm, a warm spell or a cold snap. What does the graph look like for Arctic ice volume Steven?
I make fun of PIOMAS graphs on this blog all the time. It is one of my favorites. You need to step your game up a bit.
So why don’t you show ice volume graphs? BTW why did you choose 2007 (the year with the lowest ice extent on record) as your starting point on the graph above? Isn’t that cherry picking? If it is not too much trouble, could you show an ice extent graph that begins at the start of the satellite record?
I show PIOMAS graphs all the time. Ever used a search bar?
Whatever
Everyone that has been to this blog since it’s inception can see you are a Johnny-come-lately. Man, you really did just drop off the turnip truck and landed here.
Arctic Ice Death Spiral brought to you by piomas:
http://psc.apl.washington.edu/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/schweiger/ice_volume/BPIOMASIceVolumeAnomalyCurrentV2.png?%3C?php%20echo%20time%28%29%20?
Thanks for that gregole. I had seen that graph before — quite extraordinary isn’t it? And far more representative of long-term Arctic conditions that Steven’s graph.
I wonder where Steven got his graph? Normally you would find an attribution next to a graph or any piece of scientific evidence — strange that Steven’s doesn’t have one.
Yes -very extraordinary to have alarmists making up numbers. According to PIOMAS, the ice is half as thick as 2008, when Serreze predicted an ice-free North Pole.
Wow! Great opportunity for you to prove that I am making up numbers! Go for it!
ice free = whatever the alarmist wish
Reality:
ice free = ice free – not gonna happen in my life time
Of course I use a search bar Steven. I just have never seen a PIOMAS chart for Arctic Ice Extent that began at 2007 and I was wondering what “special” site you go to. I would like to compare the graphs that I am used to seeing on the internet with the ones you continually find.
Perhaps you can provide us with the website address of the graph above.
Here is the longer-term picture:
http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm
Ice extent has fallen about 40% since the 1980s.
Thank you for proving my point
You’re welcome Steven. Good of you to acknowledge that this post is intelligence-free.
I wrote this up just for you
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/08/15/trend-towards-permanent-darkness/
Here is a much better longer-term picture:
Peer reviewed study says current Arctic sea ice is more extensive than most of the past 9000 years
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/09/23/surprise-peer-reviewed-study-says-current-arctic-sea-ice-is-more-extensive-than-most-of-the-past-9000-years/
In other words: there is more ice in the Arctic, RIGHT NOW, than there has been for almost all of the last 9000 years.
Steven,
Am I understanding you correctly– did you just say that you made up data?
When I ask you where you got your graph, you tell me “Great opportunity for you to prove I am making up numbers. Go for it!”
The problem is Steven, I can’t “Go for it” and find out if you are indeed making up numbers or not until you tell me where the graph came from.
It says right on the graph what the source of the data is. You can be a hero among men by checking the data yourself and showing that I made it up. What an opportunity for you!
i am sorry Steven, I can’t seem to find it. First you say the graph came from PIOMAS and now you say it is a JAXA graph. I have gone to 5 different sites and looked through dozens of graphs, but nothing looks remotely close to what you have on screen. Perhaps you can provide the EXACT web address? This graph (halfway down) is also for the period of 2007 to 2012 in regards to Arctic Ice Extent, but it looks totally different to yours.
http://www.thearcticinstitute.org/2012/08/a-closer-look-at-2012-melting-season.html
Perhaps it is because I generated the graph from JAXA data, and it is something that alarmists don’t want you to see?
He did not say that the graph came from PIOMAS! That is blatantly false. And you brought up volume in this thread, not Steven. I doubt you will fool very many with this ridiculous routine.
RTF
Comedy routine today for our entertainment!
Steven is trying to be the straight guy! Whatever still does not get it!
What has happened in Arctic ice since 2007 is an inconvenient truth for global warming alarmists.
So they will incessantly start at 1980. That starting point makes them feel better. Such a nice sense of false security for them.
Well actually 1979 is the year where the reference should start at as that is when the satellite pictures became available. And, as you well know, the longer the time line, the higher the confidence.
That is complete nonsense. There is excellent satellite data going back to 1972, when sea ice extent was much lower than 1979.
Actually you are correct about satellite pictures beginning in 1972, but apparently incorrect regarding sea ice extent being lower before 1979:
[1] A 30-year satellite record of sea ice extents derived mostly from satellite microwave radiometer observations reveals that the Arctic sea ice extent decreased by 0.30 ±
0.03 106km 2/10 yr from 1972 through 2002, but by0.36 ± 0.05 106km 2/10yr from 1979 through 2002, indicating an ACCELERATION of 20% in the rate of decrease. http://www.atmos.umd.edu/~kostya/Pdf/Seaice.30yrs.GRL.pdf
And, of course, we all know what has been happening with sea ice extent since 2002.
Perhaps, Steven, you can make up one of your graphs to help your readers understand what has been happening to Arctic sea ice since 1972?
You have no idea what you are talking about. The 1990 IPCC report showed 2 million km^2 gain from 1974 to 1979
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/04/25/rewriting-the-history-of-the-arctic/
It is not me Steve who is doing the talking, it is the paper I referenced. BTW I did look at your reference. What happened to the data for 1972 and 1973 on that Goddard graph with red circles? And I do agree with you, the NSIDC graph does show a steep drop in ice extent from 1969 to 1974
That is the graph from the IPCC report. They don’t have satellite data prior to what is shown on the graph.
When Climatologist George J. Kukla of Columbia University?s Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory and his wife Helena analyzed satellite weather data for the Northern Hemisphere, they found that the area of the*ice and snow cover had suddenly increased by 12% in 1971 and the increase has persisted ever since*. Areas of Baffin Island in the Canadian Arctic, for example, were once totally free of any snow in summer; now they are covered year round.
http://seeker401.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/time-magazine-june-1974-another-ice-age/
The 15% graphs are telling. They don’t show the dramatic loss the 30% graphs show. The 30% graphs are just showing they were broken up into 15% by the storm. The loss of ice was not a loss of ice. It was just a breaking up of 30% concentration into the next increment, i.e., 15% concentration.
But I think that what I just said will be completely incomprehensible to global warming/Arctic ice alarmists. They’ll just say “1980” over and over.
Link to graphs
http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/sea-ice-page/
If an Icecap in the Arctic thaws, and then freezes over again, does it make a screaming sound? 🙂
Richart T Fowler,
I am sorry to have to correct you, but please look at Steven’s comments on Aug. 15 at 5:51pm and 6:45pm. Steven is clearly talking about PIOMAS graphs.
But that is irrelevant now as Steve just admitted at 1:41am on Aug. 16, that it was himself who created the graph. I wonder why Steve’s graph for Ice Extent from 2007 to 2012 is tilted upward whilst all other data has the tilt going the other way? For example: http://www.thearcticinstitute.org/2012/08/a-closer-look-at-2012-melting-season.html
Are you easily confused?
Some people are simple concept challenged. And he doesn’t know what he’s doing.
Why ask me? After all. I didn’t post a graph that was at first a PIOMAS graph (it wasn’t) then a graph available through a simple search (it wasn’t) then it became a JAXA graph (it wasn’t) and now (finally) has become a Steven Goddard graph.
You make it confusing Steve.
I’m starting to think that you might be a bit mental.
Whatever
Reading comprehension classes are available.
Thank you. Did you get a bulk rate?
Whatever
What other names do you post comments under on the internet? You seem very, very familiar.
Steven,
You say the nicest things. And you make up really good graphs too.
Lol, you think Steve just makes them up? Whatever, the numbers are freely available to anyone.
Lol, you think…..
He thinks? Don’t be so sure.
Well, as a point of fact, Steve did make up his graph as he himself stated at 1:41am on Aug. 16. And of course the numbers are freely available. We can even use 2012 numbers now or numbers for any years before 2007 (for some reason, Steve left these off his graph), although that would make the trend line look very different to Steve’s one above.
We could even use freely available numbers to make a graph for ice volume which would be a much better reflection of actual Arctic conditions.
If you continue to be an idiot you are going to be spam.
Whatever
you may have overlooked this question above:
Do you post comments under other names on the internet? Again, your comments are very familiar.
No reply at all. That smacks of guilt. So you are using more than one name to post comments. That is the same as cheating at solitaire.