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Jun 5, 2009
Serreze: I have yet to lose any sleep over what is talked about in WattsUpWithThat or any other similar blog that insists on arguing from a viewpoint of breathtaking ignorance.
Disrupting the Borg is expensive and time consuming!
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” breathtaking ignorance” . . . finally, something that Serreze knows about..
Oh oh!
Data manipulation required from Rapid Response team
a quick downside up should work…no one will notice that surely:-)
Who is breathtakingly ignorant now? I assume that is a rhetorical question.
Look at Figure 2.2.
http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/reportcard/sea_ice.html
also:
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/indicators/snow-ice/sea-ice.html
also:
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/indicators/snow-ice/sea-ice.html
and – re: multiyear sea ice:
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/indicators/snow-ice/sea-ice.html
And volume:
http://psc.apl.washington.edu/wordpress/research/projects/arctic-sea-ice-volume-anomaly/
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/grl.50193/abstract
Would you care to make a prediction for Sept 2013 extent, based on these data?
Top scientists say that the Arctic will be ice-free this summer.
Who am I to argue with such brilliance?
Top scientists say that the Arctic will be ice-free this summer.
==========
Julienne said anything smaller than Egypt….would be ice free
Egypt is 1 million sq/km
You haven’t addressed my question. I’m not interested in old news articles and bold predictions. I am interested in current trends, and your triumphant claims that imply sea ice is recovering.
Would you like to put a wager on whether mid-September Arctic sea ice extent will be more or less than the 2012 extent on the same date?
September Arctic ice extent is a fool’s game. It depends on many flaky unpredictable factors.
NSIDC shows that MYI has been increasing for four years. If that trend continues, then September extent will follow.
Steven seems to have touched a nerve.
Eco worriers are never interested in old news or past predictions because of their track record of being constantly wrong.
PIOMASS is a model. Come back when you’ve got some actual measurements.
Grant, how would you explain the discoveries of ancient manmade tools and tree stumps under today’s retreating glaciers? That proves it was warmer than today.
Of course it’s been warming, it’s a natural thing since the Little Ice Age ended.
Now who is breathtakingly ignorant?
…and, according to DMI, Arctic temps are STILL below “normal” by severl degrees. http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php
If the 2013 ice extent follows the 1990s mean, it will be very interesting to see that the warmists say—or don’t.
Steven – I think you well know that late summer sea ice extent is the most reliable indicator of warming. Winter and spring extent mask important variables such as ice volume, and the amount of more stable multi-year sea ice, as my origninal links clearly show. I’m afraid you are being quite disingenuous.
I think you well know that late summer sea ice extent is the most reliable indicator of how much ice there is at the time the measurements were taken. Nothing much else.
No it isn’t. Summer temperatures north of 80N have been below normal for the last decade. The low summer ice extent was due to unusual amounts of winter MYI transport out the Fram Strait starting in 1988.
grant u said “the most reliable indicator of warming” … what warming? Arctic warming, GLO-BULL warming etc?
What about Antarctica sea ice …. is that a “reliable indicator” of warming also?
Have a great weekend folks.
Grants are indeed Halting now that the CAGW myth has been busted.
😀
Summer ice extent is the most reliable indicator of warming because he says so and to suggest otherwise would be disingenuous.
>grant holt says:
May 31, 2013 at 4:34 pm
Who is breathtakingly ignorant now? I assume that is a rhetorical question.
There has been no significant global warming for about 15 yrs, so if arctic sea ice has been melting, then let’s not worry that global warming has caused it. Does that make sense to you?
Cults die hard. The necessary “adjustments” will see to it that the ice trend remains on target to ice free…. until they run out of ice to “adjust” into oblivion. Then, with the arctic looking much as it has for decades, it will be fun to watch the squirming… Deceit has a way of coming back on you.
Remember the last time the ice was close to the mean at this time of year? NSIDC pulled a rabbit out of the hat to make sure that didn’t happen.
How much of the world’s ice is Arctic sea ice?
~ 0.01%?
How much of the world’s ice is all the Antarctic land and sea ice?
~ 90%?
The former is shrinking, the latter is gaining.
How is that a reliable indicator of warming?
How much of the world’s ice is Arctic sea ice?
~ 0.01%?
Oops! I think that should be 0.1%…..average 10 million sq-km x average 2.5 metres thick = 25,000 cu-km
Total Antarctic ice is only 900 times greater volume. Not 9000. Silly me.
Less ice is good. Lets hope it keeps gradually melting but sadly that may not happen.
You’ll notice that the last “average” they show is the 2000’s.
They’re afraid to post the 2000-2010 averages.
True, it might show a lower line, but it also might show that 2011 thru 2013 are close to (or exceeding) that average.
Above all else, they can’t show that anything attached to the climate is “average”.