Surely it’s time for climate-change deniers to have their opinions forcibly tattooed on their bodies.
Not necessarily on the forehead; I’m a reasonable man. Just something along their arm or across their chest so their grandchildren could say, ”Really? You were one of the ones who tried to stop the world doing something? And why exactly was that, granddad?”
Wasn’t it obvious to everyone intelligent that inferior races were destroying Germany?
He further states:
You just know that in 20 years’ time, when the costs of our inaction are clear, the climate deniers will become climate-denial-deniers. ”Who me? Oh, no, I always believed in it. Yes, it’s hard to understand why people back then were so daft. It’s so much more costly to stop it now.’
That’s why the tattoo has its appeal.
I’ve been hearing the same story for thirty years, and nothing has changed. It won’t change in the next thirty either.
Nazis were sure they were doing the right thing. Psychotic true believers always do.
Glover also has the afternoon gig on ABC Sydney’s (2BL) 702. I’ve heard him refer to the ratings winner station 2GB 873 as “The Evil Empire”. Hmmm. Glover thinks himself a funny guy.
Here’s 2GB’s Alan Jones interviewing David Karoly:
http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=8984
& Tim Ball:
http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=9005
Here’s an example ABC and Fairfax groupthink.
http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/2011/06/survey-results-spun-to-fit-warmist-agenda/
This is your side of this debate, “ill wind”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmPzLzj-3XY
I’ll volunteer for nice yellow sun patch as long as I’m allowed a few minutes alone in a room with the author.
So ill, the ends justify the means? Sounds like I have heard that before. Let me think – where was it – oh yea! 1936 Germany and the final Solution! You are a good little nazi!
Ill Wind, it could also read:
“You just know that in 20 years’ time, when the costs of our actions are clear, the Warmists will become climate-denial-deniers. ”Who me? Oh, no, I never believed in it. Yes, it’s hard to understand why people back then were so daft. It’s so costly now in the face of this new Maunder Minimum’” 😉
In Washington, DC, the hottest temperature ever recorded in June was in 1872. The hottest temperature in July was in 1930. The hottest tempearature recorded in August was in 1918. The hottest temperature in September was in 1881.
So the heat records for DC’s four hottest months were set on the average over 110 years ago.
DC is just one place, but this data (plus similar data for many other cities) seems to give support to the notion that warmists are greatly exaggerating their scary scenarios.
The next thing will be to say that high temperature records before 1950 never took place. Not only hide the decline, but hide the 1930’s.
I read his article and felt the need to write to him … not that it would actually change his mind. Anyhow, here is what I wrote:
“So how about they are forced to buy property on low-lying islands, the sort of property that will become worthless with a few more centimetres of ocean rise, so they are bankrupted by their own bloody-mindedness? Or what about their signed agreement to stand, in the year 2040, lashed to a pole at a certain point in the shallows off Manly? If they are right and the world is cooling – ”climate change stopped in the year 1998” is one of their more boneheaded beliefs – their mouths will be above water. If not …”
Really? So why is the Maldives government renovating and expanding their only airport which is only 2m above sea level?
http://www.maldivestraveller.mv/details/Local+News/exclusive-designs-for-new-airport-unveiled
“But, my God, these people are frustrating”.
I feel the same way about people like you. I have a 4 year honours BSc (specialist in Environmental Science … graduated with distinction) and I used to believe in AGW … that is when all I did was listen to the news. When I actually started to read both sides of the story, I couldn’t believe just how blatantly hostile the warmist side was. What are you afraid of … that you may actually be wrong? Here is a compromise. I’ll move to the Maldives (2 m above sea level) if you agree to up and move to Greenland, Antarctica, or some other frozen hell-hole that nobody else wants to live in. By the way … at the current rate of sea level rise (1.8mm per year and falling), the Maldives airport should be firmly under water in just over 1,100 years.
If I get a reply, I will post it.
P.J I respect what you have said, actually an awful lot.
Thanks 🙂
“Really? So why is the Maldives government renovating and expanding their only airport which is only 2m above sea level?”
What do the actions of a government beureaucracy have to do with reality? You don’t explain away reality by pointing to what human beings are doing.
“By the way … at the current rate of sea level rise (1.8mm per year and falling), the Maldives airport should be firmly under water in just over 1,100 years.
“The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.”–Albert Bartlett
Here’s a clue. GRACE satellites/Greenland.
“What do the actions of a government beureaucracy have to do with reality? You don’t explain away reality by pointing to what human beings are doing.”
Do you seriously think they would be sinking close to $400 million into this project if sea-level rise was even close to as bad as the warmist side has made it out to be? Do you? By the way, what is your version of reality when it comes to sea-level rise? 3 mm/year? 5 mm/year? San Francisco under water by 2100? Give me something to work with here.
PS: I forgot to mention that the corrected algorithm still indicates a doubling from 2002-2009. It’s for a smaller volume but with an exponential increase you only postpone the inevitable by a few years.
Here’s a clue. The interpretation of the GRACE satellite data you refer to was wrong. http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iFYPF7wJrj-K5GTv1-oZsHhqrzIg
It’s been recalibrated.
No different than the UAH satellite temperature charts put out by Roy Spencer (A skeptic) which was wrong for the first ten years until it was corrected.
It has been recalculated and is much lower.
Ill Wind,
You probable missed this:
Ill Wind,
The following is an open letter to the president of the Maldives written in 2010 by the sea level rise expert Dr. Nils-Axel Mörner. His main points were:
The Maldives need to stop coral mining for the construction industry.
I sent him this….
Richard
Now that you are a laughing stock across the internet and will be targeted every time you write something stupid, why don’t you do some basic journalism and try to find out what the so called “Deniers” are saying.
I’ll give you some hints:-
– Some of the proposed remedies for Climate Change will be worse than the worst case effects
– Some of the scientists sprooking Dangerous Climate Change couldn’t pass a year 11 chemistry test, so why should we believe them
– The high priest of Climate Change, Dr James Hansen made some predictions many years ago based on the “Climate Models” we hear so much about. Why don’t you check out how wrong they are.
Or are you just another misguided propagandist?
What are you afraid of?
David Harper B.E. (Elec)
(That’s Bachelor of Engineering in Electrical & Electronics from Melbourne Uni – 4 year degree with Chemistry, Physics & Maths up to 3rd year included).
Alarmists who push this idea should have no problem with having their beliefs tatooed on them, right?
Warmists need their warmism tattooed onto them, and they need their alarmist prediction(s) tattooed onto them so they can’t weasel out of them when the predictions inevitably don’t come to pass.
People could pick from a wide selection of Hansen, Gore and Ehrlich tattoos. Rumor has it that Hansen thought it was submarines which hit the twin towers.
He should get the tattoo first as he denies that climate change occurs all the time.
You do have to talk about local sea level changes. Global is meaningless for the particular coastline that you are considering.
Michael said:
“He should get the tattoo first as he denies that climate change occurs all the time.”
Forest fires have been happening since the dawn of forest evolution which was long before Man invented fires. So what if lightning causes forest fires. Is that an excuse for man made forest fires?
Since you believe that man is changing the climate, then get on with it. What is so much different about climate change this time than it was in the past? What solutions do you propose? Should we cull the human population down to 1 or 2 billion? Or should we all go back to living in caves and grass huts? Get on with it and be specific, rather than talking in rhetorical questions about man-made forest fires.
But in the case of climate, you can only discern man’s fires by measuring against the baseline…and when we do that, man has barely lit a candle.
The fantasy of future exponential sea level rise exists ONLY because the INCONVENIENT measures of existing rise indicate NO meaningful Change. Another failure, and another dream to explain it away…….
Ill Wind,
Forest fire frequency has been in decline since the end of the Little Ice Age. It is further expected to decline if the world warms further. Amazin eh! 😉
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.2307/3237261/abstract
Michael said:
“You do have to talk about local sea level changes. Global is meaningless for the particular coastline that you are considering.”
Actually, you have to emphasize the Global rise first then the local. I know that there are fluctuations in sea level rise throughout different oceans but you have to first know how much melt and thermal expansion is contributing to the Global sea level rise.
Yes, and global sea-level rise is 1.8 mm/year … I’m packing up my family and moving to Nepal.
Sea level has fallen since the start of 2010, during the record melt year in Greenland. How much did Greenland contribute to the fall?
My understanding is that the rate has declined. Nothing significant in the long term (50 years) or even the mid term (10 years).
At this point, thermal expansion is still a major player.
I cannot get much deeper than this without research because I don’t focus on this aspect of GW; only on Arctic ice cap shrink.
You mean contraction?
Again, I forgot to mention an important point. It takes many years for water originating from one source-Greenland-to be distributed evenly throughout the Earth’s oceans.
So whatever melt there was from Greenland last year is not going to be detected on a global level yet.
Warming ended in 1998. There has been cooling since then. And if you cannot accept that there has been cooling because of statistical reasons then you’d have to agree there has been no warming, only a flattening of temperatures.
It is normal for the earth to warm and cool. It would be abnormal for it to not do that.
Ill, the sea level around Greenland should have been noticeably higher.
Considering the different tools used to measure sea-level, the various data sets, the known difficulties attaining such precision as 1/10ths of a millimeter, its best to avoid discussing these things as factual. No one can state with any certitude what the rise rate is or isn’t or if there is even a rise rate.
The latest 2011 Church and White sea level update contains a plot of a simple average of actual real world tide gauge records, worldwide:
http://oi51.tinypic.com/28tkoix.jpg
There is no trend change. Plotted accelerations in sea level rise are not actual sea level! They are corrected sea level, ha ha, corrected in one direction only. That’s not observer bias, merely, but mite akin to insanity.
http://oi52.tinypic.com/x3e0es.jpg
“mite” = iPhone keyboard version of “more”.
stevengoddard says:
June 6, 2011 at 2:48 am
“It has been recalculated and is much lower.”
Yes the quantity is less but as I said, the rate still doubled as of the past 7 years.
Are you perhaps suggesting that the rate itself is wrong?
As there is no data from before GRACE, it is not possible to say whether the rate has increased or not.
Not necessarily on the forehead; I’m a reasonable man.
This sick man needs to have a psychological evaluation done on him. And he is a serious menace to freedom.
Problem is, there are a lot more like him who freely write the same stuff, all along believing that they are the righteous ones.
Pol Pot thought he was doing good.
@Ill Wind Blowing:
First you said, “You don’t explain away reality by pointing to what human beings are doing”, implying (from what I can gather) that sea-level rise is a problem. Now you turn around and say, “I don’t focus on this aspect of GW”. If you don’t have specifics, then why are you up to your neck in this thread?
AGW Panic – based on unfounded, unsupported assertions and wild exaggeration.
Sea-Level rise a big problem? http://theinconvenientskeptic.com/2011/05/sea-level-update-extended-revision-details/
This is a problem to those who know not a real problem.
P.J.
“First you said, “You don’t explain away reality by pointing to what human beings are doing”, implying (from what I can gather) that sea-level rise is a problem.”
I was referring to the argument you made about the airport construction somehow implying that sea level rise could not be happening. Human beings do things that are irrational all the time.
I have a feeling that this airport may last a few decades. It may even outlast the human presence on that island since the sea level doesn’t have to be lapping at their doorsteps to make the island uninhabitable. The ground water will become too saline to allow crops to grow before physical structures get inundated.
As for my weak knowledge on the issue of sea level rise, let me remind you that this thread started as an issue of someone’s idea of poetic justice. Yes, he did include sea level rise in his statement but he was speaking within a 20 year span of time.
I think in terms of how GW will affect humanity in the next several decades. In my opinion, sea level increase along with hurricanes is the least significant aspect of GW.
What is worth focusing on is how intensified rains and droughts will effect food production. I see an increasing number of crop failures, and the social disruption that follows, as the number one problem in the upcoming decade and beyond.
By the time the ocean waves start eroding beachfront property in Miami no one will care because cities themselves will be depopulated; in some cases abandoned alltogether.
I was referring to the argument you made about the airport construction somehow implying that sea level rise could not be happening.
You’re the master of putting words in the mouths of others.
The very fascists who are suing the Czech Republic over their coal-fired power plants are investing hundreds of millions of dollars exactly where they swear in a court of law that they’ll be drowning.
In other words, none of the people pushing this nonsense actually believe it. It’s just the little dupes who flap around on various message boards, quacking and barking their lord’s words.
“I was referring to the argument you made about the airport construction somehow implying that sea level rise could not be happening. Human beings do things that are irrational all the time. ”
1) When did I say that sea level was not rising? If you actually read my original post, I mentioned that sea level is rising at 1.8 mm/year, which is exactly the same as in the link that Steve posted. I was implying that sea-level rise is not a problem, and it isn’t. Now you are going on about drought and crop failures. Typical warmist … when faced with facts, simply change the topic.
2) You are right … human beings do things that are irrational all the time … like believing in AGW.
“I see an increasing number of crop failures”
In your crystal ball? Again, you state what you think will happen, but again you fail to provide any concrete facts, statistics, results, etc that would verify your assertion. When you have something, let me know.
lol, why do all that tattooing when it would be much easier to tattoo the few remaining lunatic fringe that still believe this absurdity?
suyts:
“lol, why do all that tattooing when it would be much easier to tattoo the few remaining lunatic fringe that still believe this absurdity?”
Suyts; how old are you? Let me rephrase that. How much longer do you expect to be around?
When a person starts talking like that I tell them “May you live to be as old as my grandmother and clear headed too.” She lived to be 101.
They usually don’t get it.
Yeh Ill, I really don’t want to live to be 101, but my perspective may change if I get to 100.
You didn’t like my comment? It easily mirrors Glovers. Fact is Ill, I’ve been listening to this doomsday psycho-babble nonsense for most of my life. And, in spite of all the dire predictions, wasted time, energy and money, nothing has happened. And nothing will. The polar caps are still there, not that it would mean much if they weren’t. The poley bear has exactly the same population it did 30 years ago. Storms aren’t getting more frequent and more intense, droughts and floods are occurring at the same rate they’ve always been.
More, in spite of the ever increasing rate of CO2 emissions, the earth hasn’t warmed in over a decade. I’d probably take the dire predictions a bit more seriously if the warmistas had ever been correct about anything, but they’ve constantly and consistently gotten it wrong.
And now someone advocates tattooing non-believers? Naw, tattoo the people that refuse to acknowledge reality……….it wouldn’t bother them, they’d just will the tats away like they do when the earth refuses to cooperate. But, I’m entirely behind marking down for posterity, exactly who was advocating what and why. I’m very sure once all this madness is done and we can start calculating the immense losses incurred because of this misanthropist advocacy, the people will want their pound of flesh. And, if there is to be justice, they should have it.
Leftists with fading tattoos are just projecting! Peer pressure forced them to get weird permanent body markings, ones that destroy their career and romantic potential, so they wish the same fate upon skeptics. They also wish we would become sickly and anemic vegan hypochondriacs who have frighteningly beautiful nightmares about industrially monstrous flickering towers placed by aliens on the sides of all of our formerly pristine mountainsides. Since the future hasn’t happened yet, their motivation to tattoo us lies very much in the present state of affairs, not those if the future. Utopia in the present was denied them, after the best ten years of their lives were sacrificed for it. Their sodden castles failed to rise so they are so very angry, at who? At you!
GW causing more intense storms? Another unsupported assertion; in fact, it is wrong.
http://www.appinsys.com/GlobalWarming/TornadoLies.htm
GW is not a problem. It is perceived as a problem. To perceive it as a problem requires equal parts exaggeration, willful ignorance, and a vivid imagination for disaster pornography.
Those advocating GW alarm make videos showing children being blown to bits and think that witty. Referring to informed individuals as boneheads and recommending mandatory forced identification by tatoo is reprehensible; but I’m sure some think it is just as witty and clever as depicting innocent children being blown apart.
I don’t like tattoos. But to mark me as a heretic I would accept an exile to where I will surely die when the Great Flood happens. A nice oceanfront spot, and for added punishment, a long wide beach which will offer me no protection from this rise. And make it someplace warm to give me a good taste of AGW hell.
I suppose I can provide the cool drinks myself but, if I deserve that kind of cruel reminder of what ice was, I will accept that too.
And I promise I will spend my days monitoring the climate, particularly any nice puffy white clouds drifting by in a tropical blue sky, so that I can become re-educated.
Bali sounds like a nice Gulag. Please send me there next November. I deserve it.
Careful you don’t get blown up at a club.
Al Gore’s beachside mansion will do for me.
I like your idea. The warmists should create a resort… err I mean gulag in some future AGW hell hole like, for example, CanCun or Hawaii to sequester all us “deniers”. We’ll all meet our deserved fate when the sea level rises and basically surf board… err I mean waterboards us for our eeevill ways or we may fall victiom to all of that “extreme” weather, which we know always accompanies warm climates like that of CanCun. That’ll learn us.
Speaking of irrationality,
see the rabid Palin haters in the comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS4C7bvHv2w
AAIM,
Try to imagine for the moment, just for fun, the spontaneous combustion that will occur if/when this thing hits the newstands …
http://designedbynatalie.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/timemagazinecoversarahpalin.jpg
There would be a countrywide shortage of alcohol and Prozac the following day.
(NOTE: not my creation nor did I find it, credit goes to some great FReeper here!
Steve, It appears I have a comment stuck in moderation here.
(I pasted the link here multiple times so the filter would catch this comment)
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/06/06/nazis-take-a-new-form/#comment-62566
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/06/06/nazis-take-a-new-form/#comment-62566
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/06/06/nazis-take-a-new-form/#comment-62566
June 6, 2011 at 9:00 am
CAN SAVE IT? THANKS
AND PLEASE DELETE THIS ONE
If crimes of inciting physical violence don’t apply To what “Richard Glover” is doing.
Then can I have the same freedom? please? oh Waite I do.
By “crimes of inciting physical violence” I mean I want to punch the fucker in the teeth for not being funny or even showing any attempt at being funny. I actually read his unfunny slime and he had the courage to click the post button? Who would find his article funny? some old Nazi from ww2 would say “zat waz a goot one”? Fuck him and the donkey he didn’t ride in on.
Ill wind blowing, you need a lesson in history. Glover is another believer of the principle “Do as I say, not do as I do” & your support for his POV is as reprehensible as that view expressed by Sidney Godolphin Osborne in his letter of November 16th, 1849, to The Times, in support of the behaviour og the Earl of Lucan.
“Lord Lucan is [he wrote] eminently a practical man; that which he determines to do he sets about at once, suffering no expense of pocket or popularity to interrupt him. He is one of the few landlords left in the West of Ireland who reside on and perseveringly endeavour to improve their property. He has been one of those who, finding their estates occupied by masses of small tenants, the majority of whom could not pay rent or taxes, and were in fact paupers, looked the matter in the face and saw that he had the option either of allowing them to remain, and thus to self confiscate his whole property, or of removing them by legal process, and have at least the forlorn hope that should better times arrive he might have this property prepared for a more wholesome system of occupation. I, it is true, have heard him called by very hard names; he has earned himself the character of ‘a great exterminator’ … I saw sufficient remains of his exterminating system, in the shape of roofless cabins and roofless villages, which I was informed were on his property, to make my heart bleed for the suffering these evictions must have created… But if I saw this, I saw also, what is not often seen in Ireland, the so-called exterminator giving his every effort, at any cost, to lay the foundation of a system of cultivation which should give to a future generation, if not to this generation of peasantry, comfortable dwellings, with fair wages for fair work as farm servants, in place of the precarious livelihood that had been the peasant’s lot as an occupant of the land himself … I could have wished and prayed from my heart that the stern law of necessity had not driven him, and many other landlords, to the defence of their property by a course which has wrung the hearts and kindled the worst feelings of hundreds of their fellow creatures… I can believe that had Providence not blighted the potato … the system of extermination would not have been carried out in the hurried manner it latterly has been, and the transition of the peasantry from the condition of small owners to that of hired labourers would have been attempted with more deliberation. Three successive years of famine, however, brought the struggle between poverty and property at once to a crisis…
Now, Sir, if a Landlord is to be found resident … cultivating large tracts of land in the best possible manner … he does appear to me to deserve no little credit … It matters not whether he is a popular or an unpopular man, what his creed, what his station; there he is, having weathered so far the storm, always called up by one who, careless of present odium, aims at a given end however painful the means of its attainment, and halts not until he as attained it.”
http://www.victorianweb.org/history/famine2.html
Glover seems to consider himself a nice person, in a similar manner to Sidney Godolphin Osborne.
“SGO was genuinely a philanthropist, but how little he felt for the Irish people! He was genuinely a liberal but how little he foresaw! He felt no more responsibility for the fate of the doomed and wretched masses of Ireland than the Earl of Lucan. The population of Ireland had to be reduced, that was clear, and as a humane man he felt regret that an unavoidable necessity should also be painful, but he felt no more. What happens to the rabbits when the warren is cleared? What happens to the rooks when the trees are cut down? Somehow, somewhere they disappear — and so must the Irish.” ————- Lucan & Osborne can be likened to AGWarmist watermelons.
Ill wind blowing, Glover is paid to be a scumbag arse wipe, what’s your excuse?
…well as long as those pro Climate Change have a similar tattoo so we know who blew our money on subsides destined for the already rich, on flimsy and manipulated data.
Fair enough right?
Not to much too ask surely?
I don’t need it on my body, it’s on my car. There you can read:
” I love CO2 ”
and also the GISP2 Greenland ice core graph
http://www.iceagenow.com/2010—where_does_it_fit_in_the_warmest_year_list-9099th.htm
————————-
more global warming from GISS
Reykjavik Iceland 1901 – 2011
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=620040300000&data_set=2&num_neighbors=1
Perhaps we could tattoo warmists with a wind turbine tattoo. That way when their grandchildren are living in a maze of turbines and solar panels with random lights and heat, it will be easy for the children to identify those who created this dark world.
Whatever the truth about world climate trends, why are so many people on one side of the debate continually toying with the idea of violence against their opponents? Again and again imagining – out loud and in the public arena – what they or some nameless actors might do to the Deniers. There seems to be a fascination with ideas of violent retribution; it seems like a meme that these people cannot let go of. And it’s hard to believe that in these imagined scenarios there is not some hope of their coming to pass. In some ways it’s like members of a mob egging each other on.
Perhaps the ultimate question is whether such actions are compatible with a genuine concern about determining the truth of the matter. And about doing what’s right. History suggests they are not.