Vostok ice core data
http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/06/29/human_cause-3/
Over the last sixty years, atmospheric CO2 has risen almost 50% higher than at any other time during the last 400,000 years. However, temperatures at Vostok during that time have been flat to down.
The implication is that climate sensitivity is zero, and that past (lagging) changes in CO2 are are due to outgassing and absorption of CO2 by the oceans.
Changing Tides: Research Center Under Fire for ‘Adjusted’ Sea-Level Data
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/06/17/research-center-under-fire-for-adjusted-sea-level-data/#ixzz1Pk1j7PV9
We need a thread on ocean acidification………………I’m sick and tired of it
Then Don’t go in the water!! 😉
There’s also the flawed meme that temps in the far past have gone up, followed by CO2 800 years later but CO2 then somehow reinforced the warming. However, there is no sign of any step up in temperature rise when the CO2 effect is supposed to be “kicking in”.
ps since CO2 is going up…whatever happened 800 years ago??
Medieval Warm Period 🙂
Om, temperatures fell first, and then dragged CO2 levels down…..
How can temps fall when CO2 levels are high?
Because CO2 doesn’t drive temps.
Clear flaw in the AGW argument.
“(…) temperatures (…) have been flat to down.”
Huh? You lost me there.
Long term temperatures have been declining for almost 8,000 years with short warming periods. We have not achieved the warmth of the MWP yet which was cooler than the RWP. Each warm period has been cooler than the one before and the cold periods get colder.
Based on regional biological activity in marginal regions.
Temperatures have not risen in East Antarctica
East Antarctica is Not in any way shape or form Marginal and has probably not been for 38 million years. I was referring to the area around the Arctic Ocean and the Higher elevations in the world where glacier ebb and flow.
At Vostok.
Like where they found forests under the glaciers and farms where permafrost is now.
Hmm, I think we’re referring to Antarctica.
But, yes, towards the other pole, we found all of that neat stuff.
This poses an interesting question or two.
First, I’ve as much faith in ice cores as I do tree rings. Less actually. Given the properties of H2O and its propensity to change states…….gas, liquid, solid. Knowing that melt/freezing isn’t the only method to which this occurs……(damned meds I can’t think of the word right now!!!!) and given that ice moves, how is it that someone believes by looking at the molecular make up of a core that it is representative of that place and time? It is almost certainly not. Unless Vostok is the only place known to be static in its H2O make up in relation to place and time. And then, of course, where would you find something to compare it to? Greenland? ahahahahahahahhaahhaha!!!
For those wondering what I’m babbling about…….. gases get trapped in ice(solid water) Various isotopes are unique to various gases in certain states and conditions. So, the theory is, at Vostok, it snows, traps gases. and stays that way, in perpetuity, until some simple minded person calling themselves researchers drill a core and believe the sample is representative of that place in time and then apply the information, unique to that place and time, to attach significant meaning of that information to the globe during the time they believe it was when the gases and isotopes of the molecules got frozen.
Damn meds…… I hope I’ve articulated the ludicrousness of ice cores properly, but I fear I haven’t.
On the linked page they have a CO2 and Temperature graph near the bottom of the article… looks really bad till you realize that the apparent “correlation” shown in their graph ended about a year after their graph ended… update that sucker with the last ten and a half years of temperature and co2 data and a new view will become apparent… correlations falsified by that darn pesky mother nature… always on her balanced path… can’t she get with the co2 climate doomsday rapture program so greenpeace and hansen can pump up the bank account faster?
Apples and Oranges! Proxies provided by trapped gasses in the ice cores and historic measurements taken at that site.
sublimation
the MWP reference should be investigated : what if CO2 is truly increasing today because it was warm 800 years ago, just as it always happened in the ice cores?
In my mind climate sensitivity must be zero or less than zero, otherwise we would have positive feedback. None of the previous cycles in the ice cores show any trace of positive feedback.
On another matter, does anybody know anything about adiabatic lapse rate. Is it affected by pressure? I’ve different calculations, one that suggests it is and one suggests it isn’t?
You seem to miss the blatantly obvious. Climate sensitivity is sensitivity to any forcing, not just CO2. Climate sensitivity applies to solar forcing and every other forcing. Therefore if climate sensitivity were “zero” there would be ZERO fluctuation in the paleo record of temperature. The Earth’s temperature would be in a long term steady state. The Vostok chart you post clearly shows that’s not the case.