Below are the HadCRUT graphs for Texas and Wisconsin.
http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcrut3/data/HadCRUT3v.nc
Texas since the 1870s.
Wisconsin since 1850.
Why do climate scientists keep spreading misinformation?
Disrupting the Borg is expensive and time consuming!
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Where’s the hockey stick? Where’s the beef? Of course, there a many different methods to reading a thermometer.
You know what’s strange here? From looking at the Texas graph, it is quite apparently that “extremes” were more prevalent then than they are now.
I was noticing the same thing with all of these graphs. I am suspecting that what we may be seeing are more the error bars in the data. I would assume that our current measurements and data gathering techniques have probably improved over time and as such the scatter has tightened up slightly. At least that would make sense to me.
Tell it to the Texas plants. The plant zones show the climate is changing. Do you think Al Gore got to every plant in Texas, and convinced them to act as if warming were occurring?
Tell it to the insurance companies. For the past decade, insurance companies have been charging a warming premium to Texas residents and businesses, because they’re already losing their shirts.
Who to believe, the plants and the guys who bet billions of their own money, or a blogger who is neither a botanist, nor an economist nor actuary?
Is that even a dilemma?
ZZZzzz……
No, I didn’t expect you to have any cogent answer. Models, as you say, are always more accurate than the actual measurements in the real world, right?
Ed, that’s brilliant! I should have seen right through Steve’s manipulation of both NCDC and HadCrut! How could I have been so blind as to believe those two organizations over your conversations with plants and brother Al? Especially when its so obvious that both of them are in the tank for Steve………..
Go here, http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/tx.html
Change the “period” drop down from “Jan” to “Annual”
click on the submit button below.
Enjoy the spankage.
Ed, I’d love to stay and chat, but I’m off to conduct some ongoing experiments with spheres on planes……. Steve does indeed make comments one could argue with from time to time(but I doubt one could prove him wrong on most of those occasions), but Steve isn’t making this up, if you don’t believe the sources presented here, then you can’t possibly believe 99% of the science of climate change.
Peace.
Note to self…… Always believe people that have conversations with plants when confirmed by Algore.
“Who to believe, the plants and the guys who bet billions of their own money, or a blogger who is neither a botanist, nor an economist nor actuary?”
Steve didn’t make up the figures; they come from HadCRUT, so when making accusations of honesty (and let’s face it, whether he is a botanist or a toilet cleaner makes absolutely zero difference as to whether he is telling the truth), try levelling them at the source.
hehehe … wow …
Forget the charts….the stations…the satellites, look at the plants. The plants tell the story…..ze plants….ze plants.
Things should NEVER change!!! Never, I say!
Are the insurance companies covering sunburn??? Never heard of heat insurance, unless, maybe, you sell ice.
Ed, you do realize those charts are from HadCRUT, so why are you ripping on Steve??
Ed:
I have done my own landscaping for over 40 years and now own a tree farm! My plants say your plants are lying to you and the insurers take every advantage they can. Also when people build in locations subject to severe weather events they should expect to lose their belongings. If it were not for the Mommy State and an insurance cushion the people would not make the stupid decisions they make today.
I found a safe bet when planting pick a colder zone because cold is more harmful to plants than warm and the hardiness zones are based on cold days. Look at the region history and prepare for the least precipitation and the coldest weather the region has experienced over the last 100 years. Then expect losses due to poor planning or bad historical information!
I have lost more plants due to cold than heat!
“My plants say your plants are lying”
hehehehe .. I like that one!
Well, Mike, don’t take my word for it. Check the entire United States.
http://www.arborday.org/media/mapchanges.cfm
And just to make easy you to whine, but hoping to increase the scientific accuracy of your whining, here’s the critique:
http://www.plantdelights.com/Plant-Hardiness-and-Hardiness-Maps/products/525/
Good advice, Mike!
But that’s completely irrelevant to the point. Weeds and especially exotics are marching northward.
20 years ago, only a couple of palms “might” survive as far north as Austin. Today you can buy five different kinds of palms in Austin nurseries and three in Dallas nurseries, all of which, now, are said to be reasonably hardy.
In Washington, D.C., the Cherry Blossom Festival has had to be moved up to avoid missing the blossoms, which now come nearly a full month earlier than when they were planted. In Texas, the bluebonnets which used to be a harbinger of warm April days break out in North Texas around the first of March, fading in the first week of April if its cool.
Austin didn’t used to be considered a “severe weather location,” nor for that matter did most of Texas. Today, it’s a different matter. Sure, insurance companies take opportunities to raise rates, but they are regulated in every state to prevent unreasonable rate increases. In Texas they made the case that climate change is dinging them, and they got the rate increases.
Mike, you haven’t lost many, if any, plants to cold that used to survive year to year, but which you now cannot plant at all because they freeze every year. Sure, you’ll lose plants to freezes, even usually-hardy plants. ( Of course, you tree farm people love it when people plant stuff that freezes — you make a lot more money reselling it, right? Or are overbroad generalities only allowed against the actuaries who study all the figures and stake billions, literally, on getting climate forecasts as right as they can?)
A lot of the trouble we see is in the wild, probably more than in cultured exotics and semi-exotics. Plants stuck in upper-reaches of the Rocky Mountains can’t move to the next-higher mountain top as easily. Check out Yellowstone NP, or Glacier, or Rocky Mountain.
Plants can’t lie, and they are not influenced by Al Gore’s movies. Living measuring sticks tend to be much more accurate than other artificial measures, especially over longer time curves.
HadCRUT shows Texas cooling over the last 150 years. Nice try though.
Steve, your run of the data you claim you got from HADCRUT shows not much warming (nor cooling) — can you explain your methodology? How could someone else duplicate your run?
I downloaded the HadCRUT netcdf file from their web site, viewed it in ncview, and clicked on the lat/long for Texas and Wisconsin .
So, your model is not based on actual temperatures in either Texas or Wisconsin, nor does your model account for differences in elevation or climate zones, right?
What model? It is surface data recorded from thermometers.
Actual readings from Texas? Or readings from the same latitude as Texas, which is what you said before?
If the latter, at what longitude?
If the latter, how is an average for a latitude not a model?
Same latitude and longitude. That sort of implies a unique location.
“Today you can buy five different kinds of palms in Austin nurseries and three in Dallas nurseries, all of which, now, are said to be reasonably hardy.”
So… no thought that perhaps nurserys could be breeding plants hardier..?
Ed, i live in Austin TX., for37 yrs. and the climate of this region has not changed one bit. It is still cool in winter, HOTTTTT in the summer, and great in the spring and fall. We still have the plants all around. If you plant something that cannot take the heat it will die and visa versa. These are verifiable and observable facts, not some plant companys thinking. What has changed were you live to make you believe the alarmist rantings about the climate?
Twenty years ago I lived in Austin near the University, and later moved out to Cedar Park. I was amazed how much cooler Cedar Park was at night – 5-10 degrees wasn’t unusual.
So, grayman, are you claiming the plant zone maps in error? Where and shy?
What has changed where you live to make you disbelieve the great consensus of plant growers in the nation? When did you become the rebel against plant zones?
Ed, I believe my eyes! Like i said, verifiable and OBSERVABLE Over a 37 year time period. Pretty much the same plants have been around. The plant growers are not always right about every plant for every zone. My question still stands, in my 48 years on this planet the climate for the different parts have not changed, what has changed in your area?
grayman, what do the Plant Zones for Austin show? You may believe your lyin’ eyes, but I don’t. Got data?
EdD:
The plant zone maps are based on minimum temperatures and the moved the zones based on imagined changes due to a warming region. If you want to waste money of vegetation go ahead and use the zone maps as a planting guide. I started doing my own landscaping with my first house in the late 60s and am still involved in selecting plants for the home I now occupy. I once bought the latest plant guide for the region and followed their advice only to replace many plants after the winter passed. While not every year as some would last for four or five years before they froze out. I started planting using a colder region and used plants claimed to be perennials in my region as annuals. I just set the plants I wanted in locations they could easily be replaced when they froze out and took care to chose trees and large shrubs that were more hardy.
Hi Steve, If you have not been here in 20 yrs; you would not recoize it mainly Cedar Park. I live out towards Bastrop, yes the UHI effect of Austin is huge. The past 20 yrs. Austin has grown 2 fold, if there is a patch of grass they will pave it or concrete it.
Ha! “why” not “shy.”
I’m not disputing HADCRUT’s temperature charts. I’m merely noting that global warming is not a phenomenon restricted to thermometers. Global climate change has real effects, and has been having real effects for decades.
Temperatures in Texas may not have changed much in the last 50 years (if HADCRUT’s charts really show that, it’s not a rebuttal to global warming, and it many not even be a rebuttal to Texas warming). Texas’s climate has changed for the “warmer” in that period, however. The evidence is there for anyone who wishes to look, in storm total energy, in plant zone shifts, in precipitation shifts.
In retrospect, I can see that massive shifts in temperature in the Gulf of Mexico, for example, might not alter Texas’s temperatures much, but could have a massive effect on Texas, especially in precipitation. That’s what the evidence shows. Plants show it, too.
Try to find corroboration for this claim today.
lol, Bored, Ed? I’m awestruck that you would remember this one of many conversations and months later come back to snark! Very nice.
In the mean time, there’s other topics a little more current……
I live in Texas. Who could forget some group of people claiming that there’s no warming, if you live in Texas?
Besides, I didn’t turn off the tickler. Somebody else posted something.
Not bored — hoping you guys will see fit to eschew the manifold errors of your denial, and lend a helping hand. Hope isn’t the same thing as boredom.
Tell us about the heat in Texas during the 1950s.
Ed, email HadCRUT and ask them if they think their graphs for Texas are accurate………..
…..that’s the group of people claiming that there’s no warming, and the guys that see fit to eschew the manifold errors of their denial, ….. if you live in Texas?
Steve only posted their graphs…………….
Heat in Texas in the 1950s wasn’t this bad, Steve. Why do you ask?
Latitude, I was under the impression Steve made the graphs; that’s how they show above:
http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/screenhunter_71-apr-25-10-22.gif
I’d be happy to read the statement from HADCRUT that temperatures are not rising in Texas. That’s not what the last two decades show at all. That’s not what the actuaries say who argue for insurance rate increases to the state insurance commission. That’s not what the plant zone charts say.
So let me be skeptical here: The charts come from HADCRUT? Where’s the URL?
Right …
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/08/07/summers-in-texas-have-warmed-by-a-blistering-0-0-degrees-over-the-last-century/
Ed, check the front page……….Steve made a post just for you
Ah good old Ed.
I thought you told me a few months ago that all the snow above Lake Powell would not make any difference to Lake Powell.
You guys don’t remember anything right, do you?
Steve, we’re experiencing extreme heat well above the average for the past century — 8 of the last 10 record heat waves have been since 1960.
We’re in the 37th consecutive 100+ degree day in Dallas. Five days to a new record (set in 1980), and the forecast is for ten days of 100+degree temperatures.
AP reports:
(See the AP story at many places, including Boston.com — it’s datelined San Antonio.
Already the drought is more severe in more places than the 1950s drought. The 1950s drought did not come with temperatures this high, nor high temperatures for this long.
So, we’ve got a perfect non-storm of extreme conditions, conditions predicted to become more frequent due to global warming (climate change if you prefer).
So, I stand by my original criticism of your chart coupled with the implicit claim that there is no noticeable or notable warming. Average temperatures over a year may have risen only slightly, but the temperatures are rising, higher than the 20th century averages, and we’re seeing the weather extremes that such global warming is expected to produce. Minor warming, on average, can mean disaster.
Agriculture zones, insurance actuaries, temperatures, extreme weather all offer evidence that your interpretation is in error — are you sure you copied the data correctly from HADCRUT? Did you happen to see how they interpreted the data?
14 people are dead from the extended extreme heat in the Dallas area alone. This isn’t material suitable for jokes or snark.
What
That proves it. Weather is climate.
To plants and animals, yes, it is. You really are a bit of a novice in science, aren’t you?
A crop plant that can handle 100 degree heat, AND is drought tolerant, can do okay in normally dry Texas summers — making money for farmers. But put together a string of 15 days when the high is above 100, and you’ve got a need for a different crop. Water may be fine, but the plants die, the farmer loses a crop, and maybe his farm.
One year in 15, maybe not so bad. Five years since 1998, it’s too much.
In this case, weather extremes, repeated, become climate. The damage is due to climate change, but the farmer is still just as bankrupt. You can average temperatures across the state for all the centuries you wish, but the farmers are still going belly up.
Dear Ed,
If you really believed that the Earth was warming, and you honestly believed that humans were the cause, you would be a complete idiot to post on the internet using a computer powered by electricity.
You are actually causing the Earth to warm.
You. Personally. Yes, you are the actual physical cause of the warming.
I mean, unless you think it’s all hogwash, in which case, rave on, brother. Keep posting stuff that even you don’t believe. We’ll be happy to have the laugh. 🙂
I don’t want to diminish the tragedy of 14 deaths from the heat but what about this?
Winter of 2011 in the UK alone – “Yvonne Doyle at the Department of Health has predicted up to 40,000 excess winter deaths this year thanks to the prolonged cold spell.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10619380&pnum=2
Now was that cold winter an instance of global warming, global cooling, climate change or weather? Hard to say but weather in the UK used to be so cold people could skate on the Thames. I’m not convinced man caused either that or the terrible heat in Texas these days.