There is a region of low albedo, dirty ice along the western coast of Greenland. The rest of the ice sheet is very bright white.
//ARCTIC.IO/OBSERVATIONS/8/2012-08-26/Greenland
Summer temperatures in Greenland are as low as minus 35C this week.
Weather Forecast Navy Operated, Greenland | Navy Operated Weather | Wunderground
Here’s a nice animated graph on Arctic Sea Ice Volume: https://tamino.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/piomas1.gif
Do you need peer-reviewed references showing that Greenland is losing mass? I have already provided two, need more?
It’s interesting to see what’s going on in the Arctic don’t you think?
Still can’t plant crops in Greenland like the Vikings did. But that reality from history doesn’t matter to you, eh Gond.
Yes they can and do practise agriculture in Greenland: https://www.google.com/search?q=agriculture+in+greenland
The vikings had a precarious existence that came to an end when a slight change weather came about. Just the slightest fluctuation – regardless of the general trend throughout the entire Earth – will send Greenland’s weather over the edge or give it a miniscule thaw.
Ah, yes. All those peer-reviewed papers saying that the current state of agriculture in Greenland is just as diverse & extensive as the Vikings.
The area where the Vikings lived is permafrost. Lame attempt Gond. Man, you are completely brainwashed.
The areas you link to where crops are grown are on the ocean. Currents in that area add warmth for growing those crops. It is not because of the air temperature alone. Further inland where Vikings had settlements and grew crops is still permafrost where crops cannot be grown. You are sloppy and careless in your science. And those like that with science are the ones likely to be susceptible to believing in “manmade ” global warming.
“It’s interesting to see what’s going on in the Arctic don’t you think?”
Depends on the person.
You are incorrect about Greenland: http://www.c3headlines.com/2012/08/newest-greenland-research-indicates-why-ipccs-climate-models-are-wrong-about-sea-level-rise.html
Nice sashay around the posting, don’t you think? What part of -19 degrees Celsius is it that you don’t understand?
And what part of more than 200 Gigatonnes of mass lost every year since the 1990s’ you don’t understand? I guess the sigle datapoint is so much more fascinating to you.
The part about “they pulled the numbers out of their ass”
An average is an average not a single measurement.
BTW, lovely weather we’re having in the Arctic.
Interested in buying some beach property?
Gond,
It’s all a question of consistency. Greenland isn’t going to melt away if the temperature is -19 deg. (Or are you expecting it to get warmer in the fall?)
And you can’t just talk about mass lost without indicating the mass gained. (There is an accumulation going on, too, every year.)
You should also slow down a bit before you hit the comment button; you’re beginning to lose the grammatical thread as well as the logical one.
What part about measuring the temperature at 10,482 feet do you not understand?
That’s over 3 Km above sea level
“Although the actual atmospheric lapse rate varies, under normal atmospheric conditions the average atmospheric lapse rate results in a temperature decrease of 3.5°F/1,000 ft (6.4°C/km) of altitude.”
So, at sea level that 19C measured at 3.19km… would be…. roughly 0C.
so yes, the temperature 3 kilometers up in the air over greenland is -19C.
You probably want to look at more than one station.. unless you want to be the Hansen of temperature and extrapolate all of greenland from one spot.
What part of normalized temperature anomalies is it that you don’t understand?
The vast majority of Greenland is at high altitude, and Hansen extrapolates 1200km horizontally because it he assumes that trends are independent of local geography.
I thought Hansen was the Hansen of temperature.
The Greenland ice-cap is not melting quicker, but in bursts.
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2012/08/new-paper-finds-climate-models-wrong.html
A Win-Win Resolution to the AGW Debate
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Working together we can achieve goals 1-6, instead of abandoning goals 5 and 6 for 1-4 !
1. We all want world peace.
2. An end to racism and nationalistic warfare.
3. An end to the threat of mutual nuclear annihilation.
4. Cooperative efforts to protect Earth’s environment and bounty.
5. Governments controlled by the people being governed, including
6. Transparency and veracity (truth) in information given the public.
See updated summary posted here: http://omanuel.wordpress.com
With kind regards,
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http://www.omatumr.com
“Known for its massive ice sheets, Greenland is feeling the effects of global warming as rising temperatures have expanded the island’s growing season and crops are flourishing. For the first time in hundreds of years, it has become possible to raise cattle and start dairy farms.”
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/arctic-harvest-global-warming-a-boon-for-greenland-s-farmers-a-434356.html
So Greenland is warmer than in hundreds of years then? So it seems.
So it was just as warm, or warmer, hundreds of years ago then? So it seems.
Have you read the article at your link? Greenland’s farmers consist of one guy who grows potatoes under plastic (left by the Vikings) and another who has 19 cows. It’s a pity the milk can’t go anywhere in the winter.
“The part about “they pulled the numbers out of their ass””
Ha ha, that is the stupidest and lamest thing I’ve heard in a long while, really. You’re literally out of arguments in the face of Antarctic warming. Due to the use of three independent remote sensing techniques and the independent replication of key results by other research groups this thing about Greenland ice-loss is just about as certain as things can get in geosciences. Remember this when the next Science-paper comes out in a few months, peer-review permitting – it will make the news.
Please don’t quit your day job in order to comment on Earth, climate and the geosciences, ok?
ps. Your mugshot should come up when one does a Google Image search for “denialist”, ha ha 😀
The volume of peer reviewed junk climate science would cover Antarctica. Stop being a moron.
rw: “Greenland isn’t going to melt away if the temperature is -19 deg.”
The edges melt first. It’s obviously not -19 degrees everywhere and all of the time. It obviously isn’t that cold at the glacier’s edge during summer days. The ice edge is retreating, it’s obvious that’s due to above freezing temperatures.
Steven Goddard: “Stop being a moron.”
Sooooooo professional.
Look Gaia in disguise is back.
“You’re literally out of arguments in the face of Antarctic warming.”
Says who? Dr. Steig? Is the warming you speak of the cause of an increase in ice in the Antarctic?
Overall Antarctica has warmed over 50 years by a tiny fraction but has since cooled for the last 30 years. Even the authors of the Steg paper admitted this on the Real Climate website. (It was necessary to point this out in order to explain why their study “apparently” “contradicted” other studies of the region.)
Since the Greenland was at its maximum during the LIA, probably since the end of the ice age, it would hardly be surprising if it has receded a little since.
The reality is that for the last 4000 years Greenland has been gradually colder, albeit interrupted by warmer interludes such as the MWP and RWP.
BTW according to ice core data, the MWP was 1.5C warmer than now in Greenland.
The Greenland “ICECAP” I meant!!
Gond
Even if you were right you’re still going to have to prove it is unprecedented in human history. And you haven’t even begun to do that. You haven’t even looked at the first piece of history about it. You just simply believe anything you are told by the segment of the population you have chosen to align yourself with. Please don’t try to portray yourself as unbiased. You are not. You, whether you are cognizant of it or not—and you are not, are a product of left wing political propaganda.
It seems that Greenland lost at least another 40% more ice in the 30’s and 40’s then where we are at right now, then it gained mass again till the mid 90’s and since 97 it has lost mass, seems to go in approx 30 year cycles. Those 30 year cycles being part of the bigger cycles showing even bigger gains/losses.
It appears that ice gain/loss starts about 10 years after the start of the next temp cycle of cooling/warming. If this was to hold true for this cycle we should have about another 7 years of ice loss in Greenland.
Nothing unprecedented here except to those who cling to any type of weather related event not seen in the last week to support the hype.
Some people don’t believe those cycles BaldHill. They don’t believe science. And some of them are scientists. They couldn’t recognize the data right in front of them if they saw it. They are blinded by political brainwashing. They will just laugh at you and call you a “denialist” and feel they are smarter than you. After all the scientists they listen to say man is changing climate with his pollution and something must be done immediately. Usually the thing that they want done involves lots of taxing—which is exactly what the left of politics likes. So the left of politics will never stop pushing global warming, no matter how much they have to lie to do it. They will continue the flow of money to “study” global warming. The more scientists accept that grant money the more some people think the large number of scientists involved with making a living from this money proves “manmade” global warming is real—after all there’s so many scientists studying it and talking about it—-how can so many scientists be wrong—they will say. They will continue to brainwash and raise taxes with no end.
Odd thing is there are big names in climate science who have doubts about “manmade” global warming but will never mention those doubts publicly.
In this video Steve McIntyre talks about an email from ClimateGate 2.0 where one of the big name global warming scientists talks about his doubts:
4 minute video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eToR5oOvJiU
Steven are there any recent satlite images of this area in ice land? I’m just wondering if these ice-cubes can be detected from space or if they show it ice free.
http://live.mila.is/english/jokulsarlon/
*satellite.
I wonder if Gond understands the difference between mass balance and surface mass balance (OK he can google that part) and it’s relationship to AGW theory? (He won’t find it so easy to google that part.) But anyway, he probably hasn’t finished his school homework yet because he has been too busy posting here.
“Thirteen researchers, who work with the National Science Foundation’s McMurdo Dry Valleys Long-term Ecological Research program, report in the Jan. 13 online edition of the journal Nature on both the cooling and its effects in the Dry Valleys, an a little larger than Rhode Island on the west coast of the Ross Sea.
“Dry Valleys’ temperatures dropped an average of 1.23 degrees Fahrenheit per decade from 1986 to 2000, with the greatest cooling during the December through February Antarctic summer, they report.
“Complicating the problem is the fact that all of Antarctica isn’t cooling. The Antarctic Peninsula, which looks on maps like an arm reaching from the continent to grab South America, has been growing warmer. In fact, reports in recent years that Antarctica is warming have been based on data from the Peninsula.”
Read that again. Reports in recent years that Antarctica is warming
have been based on data from the Peninsula.”
In other words, we’ve been getting distorted data!
Althoug the Antarctic Ice Sheet is twice as big as the continental United
States, the Antarctic Peninsula is only a small portion of that.
If the entire United States were cooling but Oregon was warming, would
you trust someone who told you that “the United States is warming”?
That’s the kind of misleading information that I’ve been yelling about.
It’s somewhat ironic, Steve, that you cherrypicked a single temperature point..the navy one, to state that temperatures were “as low as -35C this week” because elsewhere on Greenland its warm enough for cherries with some temperatures as high as 11C and an average of 1.9C. http://www.wunderground.com/global/GL.html
Super hot summer day at 1.9C
It’s all relative Steve. The point is you cherrypicked the coldest one of the 44 available.
90% of Greenland is ice sheet, and almost all of the stations are in the other 10%. No need to be so daft.
really? http://cires.colorado.edu/science/groups/steffen/gcnet/map.html
“as low as”
English: It’s tough, but somebody has to learn it.
“Super hot day at 1.9C”
1.9C/3.42F melts ice which used to stay frozen.
The average he is using is weighted 95% off the ice sheet. What a a ridiculous comment.
WOW GAGA in disguise, really, Tell us moreish!
Surely, and an oxy-moron on yas there, err something, with emphasis on the oxy there, Most likely. Yas know the weasel words, Right?
Its warming where?
http://www.wunderground.com/global/AA.html
Sorry, I don’t speak….whatever language that was.
Yah ya do, Maybe err something and likely and very likely, err probably! Ya bullshitter.
whatever buddy. thanks for your insightful and thought-provoking responses.
BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yeah Whatever! That;s one of your kind that post the same Bullshit here too, could be you fer all we know! 😆
http://www.english-classonline.com/#/
BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA, so yer telling me you know the difference! Interesting….
I’m sure they assumed your illiterate use of “ironic” meant your mentality was that of an Alanis Morrisette fan, & tried to use age & IQ appropriate language with you.
Yes I suppose that was a bit alanic rather than ironic but I was trying to be polite, unlike you. I could have just typed what I was thinking and said “deceitful”. do you actually have anything relevant to the point I was making about cherrypicking the coldest data point of the 44 available or are you just going to make inane and pointless comments about your perception of my IQ?
Let me explain it real simple like. 90% of Greenland is ice and there is only one weather station on the ice.
I think stark is calling a spade a spade but yas know, maybe err not, I don’t want to put words in his mouth. That’s what you people project thar! 😆
Yeah, you have any idea what the term “cherry picking” means?
What in the world? Alarmists are pissy about this post? Damn Steve, you have their panties all wadded up. Alarmists don’t realize that the rest of the world is laughing at them and their stupidity now.
What’s funny is the ones getting the most wadded up are ones that don’t know data, history, math, or simple logic of climate very well.
Lol, none of the do. If they did, they wouldn’t be alarmists.
Err not, maybe, err something, but if that is the case ya know what they would be…. 😉
“90% of Greenland is ice and there is only 1 weather station on the ice.”
Isn’t that the 1 weather station that you quote 90% of the time? 🙂
Maybeeeeeee it souuld be 100% since it is the only one there as you say… BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA
He won’t understand Me.
That was Steve’s statement not mine and implicit in that statement is that there are other weather stations in the remaining 10% of Greenland.
What’s your point Terra? Do you even have one?
Yer right AAIM, 😆
It looks like he thinks he’s making some important observation.
They like to say projection instead of prediction, It’s a Hansen thinggy errr something…. Probably err maybes! 😆
Funny how he’s not replying to me. I get that a lot.
Look at how cold chilly Greenland has made the arctic ocean.
nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/files/2012/08/Figure13.png
Projecting again?
Terra Incognita
are any of these “global warming” things you are talking about unprecedented in human history?
Irrelevant. Man-made global warming is going to destroy a pathetically fragile civilization by quickly (a few decades) changing and shifting its agricultural zones. Any NGW (natural global warming) events in the past, of any significance, occured before civilizations sprung up in earnest.
Let’s see what a consistent 30%+ crop loss per year will do to us.
Be cautious of the falling sky.
So from projection to deflection…… Ok 😉
I should start a business that sells falling sky helmets. Global warmers need it. Have to protect what little logic is left in their brains.
Are they anything like the tinfoil hats you lot wear?
Yeah Me, I didn’t expect he would address anything in the real world.
I don’t there are too many pointy heads here unlike you thar…. uk no speak sence
I haven’t been responding to you because I’m convinced you don’t really have anything valuable to say. Your consistent use of “lol” and now messing around with my pseudonym just confirms for me that you’re quite childish. If you’d like to engage in grown up conversation, act like a grown up and I’ll consider discussing things with you.
Yeah, Ok, That’s weird.
Terra Incognita
What was the point of the link? What are you meaning to connect the two?
Terra Incognita says:
August 28, 2012 at 3:46 am
Look at how cold chilly Greenland has made the arctic ocean.
===============================================================
Could you decipher this? As it is now it makes no sense. But maybe you didn’t phrase it the way you meant.
Paper finds Arctic sea ice extent 8,000 years ago was less than half of the ‘record’ low 2007 level
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2012/08/paper-finds-arctic-sea-ice-extent-8000.html
Terra Incognita,
did the world die then?
sunsettommy
Global warmers may not care about science. Your paper contains data. Data is irrelevant to Terra as he has already stated:
============================================================
Amino Acids in Meteorites says:
August 28, 2012 at 3:51 am
Terra Incognita
are any of these “global warming” things you are talking about unprecedented in human history?
Terra Incognita says:
August 28, 2012 at 4:05 am
Irrelevant.
==============================================================
Terra is a true believer. Your science will not matter to him. The real world is irrelevant to people like him. That is why the real world he sees in the posts that Steven Goddard provoke the reaction you see from him in this comment thread.
I imagine he finds a home of peace in the pretend world at RealClimate and at Joe Romm’s blog.
typo
the posts that Steven Goddard provoke
should say
the posts that Steven Goddard make provoke
====================================================================
I need to slow down. I just got off the phone with my brother. He gave me some very bad family news. It’s affecting my comments.
I hope things are ok AAIM. If not do what you need to and look after yer family.
As I previously said it’s irrelevant. There were nothing but Hunter/Gatherers back then and they were so underpopulated that they could afford to migrate when necessary.
It’s the world of civilization that we now live in and, as I previously said, shifting eco-zones/agricultural zones will create pandemonium.
And silly Chicken Little jokes and other forms of mockery won’t make that go away.
So what is it then, that you propose to do about it, Gaia in Disguise? Please tell us?
You have some strange viewpoints.
And the Chicken Little comparison is not a joke. You and your crowd are the reason that Chinese story was created. It is a warning against things like “global warming”.
You are one of the most hardcore alarmists I have ever seen. You have a deep seated problem.
Sarcasm. We’re having a debate as to whether Greenland is warming up while the adjacent ocean is undeniably warming up.
You started it! 😆
Here 😆
You say the water is warming? Well, the air is not warming. So global warming isn’t happening.
Overall ARGO buoys show the oceans are cooling. The warm currents at any given location of the world have nothing to do with what is currently, or even recently happening in climate. Currents in the oceans are connected to climactic events over periods of 100’s of years.
typo, climatic, not climactic
“overall the oceans are cooling”
garbage. doi:10.1029/2012GL051106
ARGO buoys show an overall cooling trend right now.
I see you cherry picked out a paper that agrees with you global warming beliefs.
If you have a problem with the paper, why don’t you explain how the data is unreliable. Perhaps you could put it in a paper and submit it to GRL yourself? They have used previously unavailable data in their analyses. If you are suggesting those data are unreliable I’d be keen to hear your detailed analyses?
Before ARGO there was unreliability in consistency of the data.
“Lack of sustained observations of the atmosphere, oceans and land have hindered the development and validation of climate models. An example comes from a recent analysis which concluded that the currents transporting heat northwards in the Atlantic and influencing western European climate had weakened by 30% in the past decade. This result had to be based on just five research measurements spread over 40 years. Was this change part of a trend that might lead to a major change in the Atlantic circulation, or due to natural variability that will reverse in the future, or is it an artifact of the limited observations?”
http://www.argo.ucsd.edu/
Your paper uses ARGO but also uses these past unreliable methods.
From your paper:
“The warming can only be explained by the increase in atmospheric GHGs”
Your paper excludes the sun for reasons I’m sure they thought were good reasons. But other studies show the sun has warmed the earth more than some scientists have accounted for.
These arguments about ocean temperature trend always go in these same circles.
You don’t know about other papers that don’t say the same things the paper you linked to says because you haven’t searched enough to challenge it to see if it is wrong. You seem to just accept that man is changing climate.
uknowispeaksense
I have looked at more than you have. That is all. I am showing you things you didn’t know about. You think you have it all tucked away. I am showing you that you do not.
No, I have an open mind and I’m waiting for you to fill it with your independent analyses of how the previously unused data presented in that paper is unreliable. You made the statement, back it up.
There’s the deflection again….
What I replied to you was completely meaningless as I thought it would be. You went back to a broken record reply.
Your paper says it’s man that made the oceans warm. That’s what you want to believe. Have a nice night.
The Arctic ocean itself is not warming up.It is the INCOMING warm waters from the North Atlantic and Pacific ocean that is warming part of it.
Yeap, that’s half the reason. And why should that be if the Earth’s oceans are cooling off as is commonly claimed on this site?
ARGO buoys show the oceans are cooling overall. why don’t you know that? This site is not claiming it. The real world data is showing that.
“typo, climatic, not climactic”
Are you sure it’s not Freudian?
Are you?
It would be Freudian if it was in your case not in mine.
Why?
Ask someone that can help you understand.
Amino Acids in Meteorites says:
August 28, 2012 at 4:13 am
You say the water is warming? Well, the air is not warming. So global warming isn’t happening.
Overall ARGO buoys show the oceans are cooling. The warm currents at any given location of the world have nothing to do with what is currently, or even recently happening in climate. Currents in the oceans are connected to climactic events over periods of 100?s of years.
Reply
Amino Acids in Meteorites says:
August 28, 2012 at 4:16 am
typo, climatic, not climactic
uknowispeaksense says:
August 28, 2012 at 5:03 am
“overall the oceans are cooling”
garbage. doi:10.1029/2012GL051106
Amino Acids in Meteorites says:
August 28, 2012 at 5:04 am
ARGO buoys show an overall cooling trend right now.
Amino Acids in Meteorites says:
August 28, 2012 at 5:08 am
I see you cherry picked out a paper that agrees with you global warming beliefs.
uknowispeaksense says:
August 28, 2012 at 5:24 am
If you have a problem with the paper, why don’t you explain how the data is unreliable. Perhaps you could put it in a paper and submit it to GRL yourself? They have used previously unavailable data in their analyses. If you are suggesting those data are unreliable I’d be keen to hear your detailed analyses?
Amino Acids in Meteorites says:
August 28, 2012 at 5:13 am
Before ARGO there was unreliability in consistency of the data.
“Lack of sustained observations of the atmosphere, oceans and land have hindered the development and validation of climate models. An example comes from a recent analysis which concluded that the currents transporting heat northwards in the Atlantic and influencing western European climate had weakened by 30% in the past decade. This result had to be based on just five research measurements spread over 40 years. Was this change part of a trend that might lead to a major change in the Atlantic circulation, or due to natural variability that will reverse in the future, or is it an artifact of the limited observations?”
http://www.argo.ucsd.edu/
Your paper uses ARGO but also uses these past unreliable methods.
Steven do you see the out of sequence on the post here? I’ve seen this before…
sometimes comments get like that because it takes time to type some out. others are typed quickly and entered before the longer ones are finished. so they end up seemingly out of order, ….i think.
15 to 20 minutes out of order?
I don’t know
I don’t either.
The most sensible thing you’ve said. Well done. I think the sequence problem comes from AAIM addressing me by responding to himself. I see it in my inbox and respond. It all ends up all over the place.
I doubt it. But then you are too much a moron to understand it.
“I don’t either.” and you left out “of”. “You’re too much (of) a moron to understand it” Would you like me to provide you with the link to the online English course again?
uknowispeaksense
You hit below the belt. You are so typical of global warming believers. You are juvenile.
No, I said it right the first time and if you had the understanding to try to correct Me, then you understood what I said the first time ya Moron.
And yeah I forgot! BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA! YA Moron
AAIM, that is not hitting below the belt, that is deflecting yet again. 😉
It was below the belt. It was dirty pool.
And I do agree, it was deflecting tactic. But still, it was out of line.
Dirty tactics AAIM is making statements and then refusing to back them up and then accusing me of deflecting to deflect. Irony perhaps or more deceit? I offered you some peer reviewed evidence and you made the claim that the data they used was unreliable. I asked you to back up your claim. I would have let it go except a large part of the data they used was previously unavailable. It isn’t asking too much for you to demonstrate how that data is unreliable. Your refusal and constant ducking and weaving just demonstrates that you don’t know what you are talking about. The grown up, mature thing for you to do is say “I don’t know.” If this is what has you so butthurt then it is you that is acting juvenile. But if you really want juvenile behaviour, look no further than your friend with his comments like this “And yeah I forgot! BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA! YA Moron” and his multitude of other inane comments. Perhaps you think that sort of behaviour is mature? it would explain much. At some point, you will have to pull your head of the sand and accept that everything all those very smart people have been saying for so long is actually correct. They are after all, the real experts, who do actually know what they are talking about and back up their claims with analysis and evidence.
It was just trying to do what it could to stop the bullshit it was pushing to stick to it’s self. Deflecting! 😆
“Yeap, that’s half the reason. And why should that be if the Earth’s oceans are cooling off as is commonly claimed on this site?”
Oh my gawad are you that dumb?
The Arctic waters are normally colder than the Atlantic and Pacific waters thus by default they are going to be warmer.
Great post from WUWT.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/08/27/sea-ice-news-volume-3-number-11-part-2-other-sources-show-no-record-low/#more-70029
Anthony did a good job with introducing the more accurate system now in use.
It’s telling that alarmists can’t understand how it wasn’t melt that caused the drastic drop in ice measurement. It was a storm that broke up ice into concentration smaller than 15% as detected by satellite measurement. If it was melt the melt would have shown up in all the ice not just in the area of the storm—that’s what alarmists can’t understand.
And here they thought they had a big victory from that drastic drop. That feeling of victory is why so many of them have recently shown up here.
yep 🙂
When oceans warm,heat from within the earth contributing?
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/182702-Global-Warming-in-the-Arctic-Or-Simply-Massive-Under-Sea-Volcanoes-
OMG!!! That means that the land surface is being warmed up the the heat radiated by the water that is being warmed up by those massive underwater Arctic volcanos!!!
At the end of the day,with only about 1% of our oceans floors actually been explored,HOW DO THEY KNOW HOW MUCH CO2 IS COMING FROM WITH IN THE EARTH?HOW MUCH HEAT IS COMING FROM WITH THE EARTH INTO THE ATMOSPHERE?
There are several weather stations on the Greenland ice sheet but perhaps they don’t transmit their data live on the internets. This is one of the the reasons why we know Greenland has been warming up so fast.
http://cires.colorado.edu/science/groups/steffen/gcnet/map.html
http://jupiter.geus.dk/promiceWWW/home.seam
The Vikings only managed to grow small enclosesures of barley limited to the area they could irrigate. For ‘vegetables’ they gathered edible wild grasses, berries and some seaweeds. The idea that they grew ‘crops’ is insane and is not born out by any of the evidence.
In fact it has only very recently been proved conclusively that they even grew barley.
These days it’s becomin gpossible to grow cabbages and some hardy root vegetables.
Grapes have also been grown in England without a break (except between the wars) since at least the 6th century and are still grown in Yorkshire today. There are far more vinyards in the country (around 400) then ever before in history. The fluctuations on the fortunes of the industry have far more to do with politics and economics than climate. After 1066 for example there was no demand for English wine as it could now be imported freely from France.
The recent great boom in English wines took off in Hampshire, where I was brought up, in the 1960’s as the climate warmed and is still growing today.
It’s an insult to people like me who were involved in the business to see so much nonsense talked about English vinyards by people who clearly have no idea what they are talking about.
By the way Steve – I see your prediction about the Arctic ‘recovering’ turned out exactly as I told you it would. No doubt you will be able to tell everyone about the ‘record growth’ next month.
See you same time next year.