COI | Centre for Ocean and Ice | Danmarks Meteorologiske Institut
The sun is getting lower in the sky now, and temperatures near the North Pole have been record cold this summer.
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Arctic cooling is caused by Arctic warming is caused by Arctic cooling is caused by Arctic warming is caused by Arctic cooling is caused by Arctic warming is caused by Arctic cooling. And also: SUV’s. Just so we’re clear.
Just to be more precise, a melting artic ice cap is caused by polar bears staining the sea ice yellow.
…and red and brown. 25,000 polar bears lowering Arctic albedo with each and every kill, urination and defecation.
You sir have just made an excellent case: we need to take out the bears to save the Arctic.
😉
Due to our SUV’s and other fossil fuels the world is experiencing runaway warming, and THEY can’t have that happen. However, coal burning and other soot in the atmosphere makes the world cooler, and THEY can’t have that happen. So what THEY really want is a world that is less warm, but still warmer than it is cold.
Oh, and 6.5 billion fewer humans to inhabit the earth would be nice as well.
I hope that is perfectly clear what the AGW folks want on their Christmas list. Oh, wait Christmas is banned too, my bad….
Well put, Bob. The warmist loons blame Chinese coal for the “missing heat.” Or they say that the missing heat has sunk into the deep oceans. Whatever, the demon of the day is coal because in America coal causes warming, so in the US let’s snuff out the coal industry, and all its jobs and power generating capacity. But Chinese coal is fine, Chinese coal cools.
China is also developing all kinds of nuclear and other energy technologies, why we retrench. We’re losing our way, China is going to surpass us, and maybe threaten us, while our sanctimonious goody-two-shoes leaders think it’s dandy to just sit their twiddling their thumbs and fiddling while our country hits the skids.
The Warmists may blame Chinese coal for the “missing heat” but soot on Arctic sea ice should cause warming?
It’s funny how during the ‘cool’ late 1960s and early 1970s the Arctic was warmer. You really do have to wonder what warm air has to do with Arctic sea ice melt.
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/plots/meanTarchive/meanT_1958.png
i SAW A FAMILY OF BEARS DRIVING AN SUV IN THE ARTIC..I’M SURE THATS IT..
Reggie said the ice melts from the bottom and many others have said the heat is hiding in the ocean and Michael claims the oceans are getting hotter and bigger and so the record cold is meaningless as the goal posts have been moved (again) …. sarc if any can’t tell 😉
For once I’ve been quoted correctly. The oceans are indeed getting hotter and bigger. Check the trend from 1955-2008:
ftp://ftp.nodc.noaa.gov/pub/data.nodc/woa/PUBLICATIONS/grlheat08.pdf
A more updated version (complete with error bars — imagine that!) can be found at:
http://oceans.pmel.noaa.gov/
Oh, about those units: those big, scary zetajoules (Joules x 10^22), that are used both in the Levitus et al document (see Michael’s link, above) and at the NOAA PMEL site, are equivalent to about one one-thousandth of a degree C of ocean heating. In other words, about 0.12C in 20 years. A closer look at the data shows that only 0.8 zetajoules of that warming has occurred in the last 10 years. That’s something less that 0.001C, and since that’s within the error bars, there’s no way to say there’s been any warming of the ocean in 10 years. Maybe, maybe not, but any change one way or another is too small to tell for sure.
BTW, thanks to Willis Eschenbach for his post at WUWT (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/02/25/ocean-temperature-and-heat-content/) that saved us the trouble of working through the math.
michael,
Argo actual measurements do not agree with Levitus 2008 not Levitus 2012. Nor do XBTs, CTDs, moorings, and other sources.
Compare the Levitus rate to the actual measured rate. The actual present rate matches the historical rate back into the 1800s.
http://oceans.pmel.noaa.gov/
Steve,
Do you add the line at 273 to the graph? Does sea ice actually melt at about 271?
If so would you add another line at 271 for reference? Thanks.
At this time of the year, almost all of the ice is fresh water. But thanks for the pointless ignorant comment.
Steve,
I want to thank Bill for pointing out that you have editing rights at DMI/COI.
LOL
Wow, really? You two are not nice people at all. I was asking a sincere question and wanted additional info. I did not go look at the source as it was easier to ask you.
If you bothered to read any of my other comments I am usually supportive of what you say and in this case I thought a 2nd line would just give more info. And since I asked “Ben” I did not point out that he had editing rights. Completely unnecessary nastiness on both your parts for no reason. As a matter of fact I laugh my ass off at most of your posts as I enjoy your sarcastic comments and agree with the point of many of the posts.
By this time in the summer, almost all of the salt has drained out of the ice. Multi-year ice is pure enough to drink.
It’s been cold around here as well. This past winter was cold, the spring was cold and we’re having a cool summer. But I wouldn’t suspect coal burning. Nothing’s changed there. They’re burning pretty much the same amount they were burning last year, and the year before.
The likely culprit is the sun. Solar Cycle 25 has failed to show up. So it hasn’t been warming up again since the last solar minimum. I could provide you with footnotes, but that would be too easy. Look it up yourselves.
RE: michael – “Solar Cycle 25 has failed to show up”
Compare 1700 to 2012 and then repeat with a straight face that Solar Cycle 25 failed to show up.
http://lasp.colorado.edu/lisird/tsi/historical_tsi.html
“Steven”: How do you reconcile the fact that we cuurently have a significantly lower than normal Arctic sea ice extent (currently approaching the lower bound of TWO standard deviations from the 1981 to 2010 average), with this cooler Arctic? It seems to me that this is a clear indication of the well documented thinning sea ice being more prone to melting, even when temperatures are lower then the norm. i.e. a cause for great concern, rather than bluster.
http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_stddev_timeseries.png
wind…
Wind… which is more liable to break up sea ice in the summer because it is thinner and less extensive than in the past.
I predict that September is going to be a six sigma heartbreaking month for Arctic alarmists
Extreme heartbreak!!
September sea ice extent this year will bottom out at 3.3 million sq km (+/- 500,000 sq km). Not heartbreaking, but certainly very concerning.
Your turn “Steven”
.
I forecast that you are wrong.
The sea ice discussion is irrelevant with the overall arctic temperatures having risen 1.5 degrees since 1900, double the rise of the rest of planet.