In case you had forgotten over the weekend that we are dealing with complete flaming morons.
The era of climate stability is coming to an end After 400 generations of stable weather, the world is on the brink of violent climate change.
For about 10,000 years, our climate on Earth has been stable. Remarkably stable, in fact. Since the end of the last ice age, we humans have spent 400 generations taking advantage of this stability to build our civilisation. We have had warm periods and little ice ages; but the changes have been small. We have always known pretty much when it will rain, what the temperature will be each summer and winter, and how high the rivers will flow.
Copenhagen: The era of climate stability is coming to an end | Environment | The Guardian
We know that the climate was stable, because climate change was busy wiping out civilisations.
Climate change wiped out one of the world’s first, great civilisations more than 4,000 years ago Ancient ‘Indus’ civilisation was one of first great urban cultures Stretched for a million square kilometres
29 May 2012 Comments
The Indus River in Karakoram Range near Skardu, Pakistan, remains a lifeline even in the modern day Climate change led to the collapse of the ancient Indus civilization more than 4,000 years ago, archaeologists believe.
h/t to Tom Nelson and Marc Morano
One of the first great civilization? I do not think so… Sumerian civilization was 6000 years ago… Let’s go further back… Sphinx is at least 7000 years old, maybe up to 12,000 years old (same for the Great Giza Pyramid which is not a tomb). Göbekli Tepe in Turkey was 10,000-12,000 years ago. Tiwanaku in Peru may be 15,000 years old.
More proof that mainstream archaeology sucks. I guess it depends on what your definition of “great” civilization is.
Man I dont know why you even bother…..thanks anyway for your efforts…
Jesus Mary Mother of God. Who is to be thanked that I cannot post on CiF any more and can’t be bothered to spoof up another ID over a proxy. A plague and a pestilence fall upon them, a pox on their bloody house.
Read further in Alex S. Gaddes’ book ‘Tomorrow’s Weather’ (1990) – on the plight of the Mill Creek people of North-West Iowa around the Twelfth Century. and the disappearance of the Mycenae Culture (1300 -1200 BC) – and more. (Hopi Indians)
An updated version of this work (with ‘Dry’ Cycle forecasts to 2055,) is available as a free pdf from [email protected]
“We have had warm periods and little ice ages; but the changes have been small.” – Not sure about this as the bad or non existing crop effected people living in the north. How many people died? Nobody knows for sure.
One type of data that I found:
Ireland 1841 census: population of 10,897,449
Ireland 1851 census: population of 6,552,385
Caused by starvation, migration, …
The civilization mentioned were more south located. Maybe the climate was perfect to grow food there because the condition was much better than today. These tribes an civilization could grow food in large quantity. When the condition changed the moved on or collapsed.
With the next ice age the people in the north have to migrate south or die.
Juergen,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)
Potato crop failure.
You are right, that was the one caused by fungus.
The other famine was weather related.1740–41 was due to extremely cold and then rainy weather in successive years.
Still, harvest can be effected by many things.
These people are total morons. As recently as the 1930’s, the Dust Bowl all but destroyed the agricultural economy of the southern Plains, causing a vaste migration to California.
Wasn’t 4000 years ago the end of the Holocene Optimum ie global cooling? The Monsoon is a feature of heat, The Sahara dried out when the African monsoon vanished from that area, also due to global cooling. So yep, climate change can be deadly.
“For about 10,000 years, our climate on Earth has been stable.”
This must have been on the parallel Earth that we currently do not inhabit.
I think they are confusing Geology with Climate change.
The roots of the Indus-Saraswati Civilisation go back to at least 7000B.C., i.e. in Merhgarh. There was a continuous development from Merhgarh to the mature stage of the Indus-Saraswati Civilisation, which was from ~3000-2000B.C. (until today, even)
Tectonic changes led the main tributaries that formed the mighty river to be captured by the Ganges and Indus systems, including the headwaters of the Saraswati herself, which were finally blocked by the uplift of the Siwalik Hills. During this period the Saraswati river first become much lower in flow, become seasonal, then roughly 1900B.C. the Saraswati ceased to flow at all.
This was the time of the collapse of the Indus-Saraswati Civilisation, as the major population centers in the Saraswati basin became uninhabitable, and the centers on the Indus faced destructive floods and conflict with refugees seeking a new place to live.
If the monsoons fed the river thousands of years ago, they would feed the river today. The geology has changed.
Yes Ganesha, I think you are confusing Geology with Climate Change.
The Indus Culture: ” From about 4,100 to 3,600 years BP, there are numerous radiocarbon dates referred to in the Indus Culture (Harrapan) in North West India and Pakistan.
Four dates extend beyond this time to 3,100 years BP. Then there is a hiatus until the major body of painted grey-ware dates starting about 2,500 years BP. These are all globally significant culture change dates.
” During the last Ice Age, when the polar regions were very cold and the circumpolar vortex (see Convection Still. Appendix 4)was very large, year round dunes had formed in Rajasthan. There was no monsoon.
“When the Ice Age climate ended 10,800 years ago the monsoons began, the ground-water level rose and fresh-water lakes formed between some of the dunes. Using pollen profiles from these lakes (Singh et al 1972-73) and the Analytical Method of Webb and Bryson (1972) the Holocene rainfall history of North-Western India was reconstructed. There was no significant rainfall during the cold, late Pleistocene and the region was a desert of drifting dunes. This figure shows, very clearly, that the area at the edge of the Indian Monsoon is still climatically hazardous at best, century-long average rainfall varying by a factor or two.
“A millennium or so after the advent of the post-glacial monsoons (about 10,000 years BP) the ground water had risen, lakes had formed in the low areas and there was agriculture in the region. The pollen record begins to show cultivated grains by 9,400 years ago, a significant date, during a time of increasing monsoon rainfall…….”
The Indus Culture flourished during a time of reliable, good , summer monsoons, plus ample winter rainfall. Then the rains declined, the lakes turned salt and dried up and the culture disappeared from what had been its heartland.
” The dunes once again became mobile, burying towns of the Indus people. After a period of 600 years, during which the region was unoccupied, a different people moved into the region. The consequences of such a failure would be greater today, in this most densely populated of all deserts. [Bryson,- from ‘Tomorrow’s Weather’ Alex S Gaddes (1990.) Updated version pp 81-82]
Don Gaddes says:
May 30, 2012 at 12:30 pm
Your information, Don, is horribly out of date.
Arbitrarily ruling information ‘out of date’ does not refute the information ‘ganesha’. I invite you (and others,) to read the work ‘Tomorrow’s Weather’ Alex S Gaddes (1990) and then make informed comment. An updated version of this work (with ‘Dry’ Cycle forecasts to 2055) is available from [email protected]
These Orbital Solar- induced ‘Dry’ Cycles happened ten thousand years ago, they are happening today and will do so into the future. ( They are an exactly predictable and verifiable perpetual progression equation.) Pollen/Sediment Records, Tree-ring data, and Deep Ice Core readings, are (I would suggest,) never ‘out of date.’
I should have been more specific, the archeological information cited regarding the Harappan Civilisation is out of date. I was arguing that the geological changes dwarfed the climate changes, not that there were no climatological changes.
An immense amount of archeology has been done since the 90’s, and more in just the last several years. Even as early as the 30’s Aurel Stein documented that the center of gravity of the Harappan Civilisation was in fact along the Saraswati, not the Indus.
I made no mention of the Indus river,or the Saraswati. I was referring to the Indus Culture and the effects of Climate Change on the Region. I do not preclude the influence of geological change, and neither did Professor Bryson (read ‘Tomorrow’s Weather’) but you will need to produce evidence that the geological changes were as significant in the relevant areas as you maintain.
You make no mention of the documented increase and eventual decline of the monsoon and reliable rainfall. Again, you cannot render archeological information ‘useless’ because you consider it ‘out of date’!
If you wish to compare Aurel Stein in 1930 with Webb, Bryson, Singh etc in1970-73, then using your criterion it is you who are ‘out of date.’
The updated version of ‘Tomorrow’s Weather’ (with ‘Dry’ Cycle forecasts to 2055) is available as a free pdf from [email protected]
I look forward to further correspondence – after you have read it.