Even more shocking is that New Mexico has had thousands of hailstorms with large hail.
Here is some expert analysis on the subject
h/t to sunsettommy
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Who is this guy? I grew up in NM and hail was a regular occurrence in the 60s and 70s. And yes ths was in Albuquerque.
dave,
I lived in Bernalillo, the NW Valley and the NE Heights during the 60’s and 70’s and the only hail in that region during those years exists only in your imagination.
Standard golfing afternoon in Los Alamos in the 1960s
Head for the shelter at 3pm.
Wait for the thunderstorm and hail to end.
Wait for the hail to melt off the ground
Resume play at 4pm
Steve,
LA probably had more hail events than SF or ALB in the 60s but there is no way on Earth that they were anything close to what anyone would consider a regular occurrence — see my evidence in a new post below.
Good opportunity to empty the club of beer 😉
Excuse me but you’re wrong. My moms house was in the NE heights and it hailed multiple times each summer during the 60s and 70s. It hailed in Albuquerque throughout the 80s. There might have been a couple of recent years without much hail during the drought, but its apparent that the “permanent drought” has come to an end.
And of course there was the 2004 Socorro hail storm. http://youtu.be/yvZec04sMSY
Well Dave,
That may have happened, but it didn’t happen often and probably didn’t happen in summer. Only 10 “Hail Events” or less per year was recorded by NOAA for the entire state between 1959 up to the late 80’s then the number of hail events “went through the roof” so to speak. And far more of those hail events happened in May and June and not in July and August.
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ssd/techmemo/sr207.htm
ROFLMAO – we had more than 10 hail events every summer in Los Alamos in the 1960s.
I spent all summer on the golf course as a child and experienced them all personally.
So you say Steve, so you say,
But the evidence doesn’t support you.
Hi T.O.O.,
Did you actually read the article you linked, or just look at the plots? If you’d read it, you’d understand that the big spike in the late 80’s might not be purely signal, but an artifact of reporting. From your link:
-Scott
Upper atmospheric support does the trick and as long as we agree that this inter-glacial is of the never-ending kind, all is good:)
http://weather.unisys.com/upper_air/ua_500.gif
He is TOO dumb to think he can foist his crap on us when it is so easy to find the data to show him in error or lies.
Tommy,
Then find it and prove me wrong. Remember that this Albuquerque/Bernalillo County in the 1960’s we are talking about. And according to Steve hail occurred almost every week in July and August.
Good luck because you are going to need it.
Steve already exposed your lies using the NOAA data that clearly shows New Mexico has been getting Hail data back to 1955 as shown on the chart.
I
From your link
My Earth science teacher in junior high school reminded us constantly that Los Alamos had more summer thunderstorms than any place else in the US.
Here’s another one from NOAA link which TOO obviously did’t read (just looked at the pictures):
As noted earlier, the significant increase since 1987 is likely due to an increase in population and land use, and an increase in public awareness of severe weather through more aggressive spotter training at the WFO in Albuquerque.
Tooie Poohie is the DUMBEST, most STUPID, BRAIN-DEAD loser I have seen on this blog. I am actually coming to think that he is REALLY not an AGW Alarmist, but a realist in disguise who is trying, and MASSIVELY succeeding, in making Alarmist LOOK BAD
Ditto for me, lived for 30 years in the mountains just east of Albq from ’64, the hail was rather entertaining. On top of all that, we hear all this talk of NM drying out, but when I went back to visit in the early 2000s, there were springs flowing again where they hadn’t flowed in multiple decades and lots of green growth that is clearly not seen in ’50s era post cards of Route 66 through Tijeras canyon.
The 1950s was the worst drought in recent New Mexico history..Six years of very little rain.
shocking
Shocking is right.
The amount of BS that is pedaled on this site that goes unquestioned is truly shocking. The following site is on significant weather events in New Mexico from 1959 to 1998: http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ssd/techmemo/sr207.htm
Unfortunately, I couldn’t narrow it down to Santa Fe and Albuquerque, but it does show in figures 10 and 11 that the number of hail events for the state and for all of the 60s, 70s, and 80’s combined was about the same number as what occurred in single year of the 90’s (when I didn’t live in NM). It also shows that May and June had many more times the number of hail events for the state than what occurred in July and August.
I look forward to your rebuttals Steve and Dave.
Did you actually read the article you linked? LOL
Soon he will narrow it down to an address on a street in NW NM. It didn’t hail there during the time he was there, who knows how long or when, so obviously it doesn’t hail in NW NM and never has.
Steve,
As a matter of fact I did read it (I always read my links before I post them). Please tell me where in your highlighted section, the word “hail” appears? Because, after all, isn’t the topic at hand how often it HAILS in NM? Not how often there is a thunderstorm. Even you must recognize that most thunderstorms do not produce hail.
I would also like to point our that according to your own graph, hail events occur more often in May and June and not July or August as you said.
If you actually lived in New Mexico, you would know that the eastern plains get lots of storms in May and June, and that the central/western part of the state gets rain in July and August
Los Alamos had the highest frequency of thunderstorms in the country at the time, and we had hail several times a week during July and August. Getting pummeled with hail was a standard part of the golfing experience
Steve, Steve,
I believe you. I really do.
Interesting, if T.O.O. read it, then why didn’t he report this, which is in the hail section?
It doesn’t guarantee that the rise seen in the late 80’s is due to that, but it definitely indicates that T.O.O. should have asterisked his link.
-Scott
You are dumbshit stupid because in YOUR link are Hail charts dating back to 1959 showing Hail did fall in New Mexico and that they stated this as well:
“b. Hail
Hail ranks as the most frequent type of severe weather in New Mexico, and it is responsible for a considerable percentage of property and crop damage. However, only one fatality and 20 injuries have been reported due to hail. Fig. 11 illustrates the number of hail events per year. As noted earlier, the significant increase since 1987 is likely due to an increase in population and land use, and an increase in public
awareness of severe weather through more aggressive spotter training at the WFO in Albuquerque.”
They posted this chart showing that Bernalillo area has the HIGHEST severe weather events outside the far east mountain range.Sixth out of 32 forcast areas.
Figure 5. Yearly frequency of all severe and significant weather events reported in StormData.
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ssd/techmemo/sr207fig6.gif
At no time in your link did it say there was little to no no hail fall in Albuquerque area in the 1960,70’s or 80’s.
You are a baldfaced liar!
Yes tommy,
You logic, as always, is infallible. Except that Steve, Dave and I all lived in populated areas which therefore would have reported the events. And yet, approximately 6 or 7 events IN TOTAL were reported for the entire state per year from 1959 to 1987. If you average that out among 7 population centers, that means one hail event occurred per year in each center. Does that sound at all similar to the claim that Steve made regarding a storm a week in one region during the 1960’s?
TOO the article you linked contradicts your statement. Jesus, what’s wrong with you people? You guys are obsessed. You argue for arguments sake and won’t admit an error even when you’re clearly WRONG.
Jorge,
I just posted a link with graphs that support my argument about HAIL events. Steve posts a section from the same link about THUNDERSTORMS.
They are not the same thing and Steve should not have been trying to confuse the issue.
Are you completely daft?
Read it and replied already.
How does that mitigate figures 10 and 11 from the same link? And how does it prove your ORIGINAL assertion that hail happens every week in July and August particularly when your own graph above shows most hail events happen in May and June?
T.O.O.,
If you can’t understand how that mitigates Fig 11 in the link, then you’re not worth debating because you have no comprehension skills.
-Scott
My Boy Scout days back in the late 1960s included a week long stays at Philmont Scout Ranch just south of Cimarron, N.M. and I remember the afternoon hail storms in the summer while we stayed there. It made quite the impression for a boy from the Chicago suburbs.
Justin,
I went to Cimarron twice in the 60’s. Absolutely loved it and, as a matter of fact, experienced my first hail storm out on the archery range where we used the targets as shields. This is another vivid reason why I know that hail in NM in the 60’s for a boy from ALB was a very rare thing indeed.
The following documented proof of T.O.O-generated on-the-fly fabrications clearly shows what kind of personality we are dealing with in him AND could be an indicator of what he may have in mind when he talks about practicing real “science”.
======================
T.O.O
July 4, 2013 at 3:02 pm
dave,
I lived in Bernalillo, the NW Valley and the NE Heights during the 60?s and 70?s and the only hail in that region during those years exists only in your imagination.
======================
Dave
July 4, 2013 at 3:42 pm
[. . .] My moms house was in the NE heights and it hailed multiple times each summer during the 60s and 70s. [. . .]
======================
T.O.O
July 4, 2013 at 4:06 pm
Well Dave,
That may have happened, but it didn’t happen often and probably didn’t happen in summer.
======================
T.O.O
July 4, 2013 at 4:17 pm
Steve,
[. . .] I would also like to point our that according to your own graph, hail events occur more often in May and June and not July or August as you said.
[COMPARE TO PRIOR T.O.O STATEMENT: “the only hail in that region during those years exists only in your imagination.“]
======================
July 4, 2013 at 4:24 pm
T.O.O
[. . .] [A]pproximately 6 or 7 events IN TOTAL were reported for the entire state per year from 1959 to 1987. [. . .] [T]hat means one hail event occurred per year in each [population] center.
[COMPARE TO PRIOR STATEMENT: “the only hail in that region during those years exists only in your imagination.“]
======================
In conclusion, it should be clear from the above that commenter T.O.O is not someone who is in any position to call into question anyone’s ethics or scientific competence.
RTF
T.O.O
How much as Gaia warmed since the industrial revolution? How much has the earth warmed since the building of the world’s first coal powered station?
Gaia? 😆
What a zealot! Only religious freaks call this planet ‘Gaia’!
Of course it has warmed since the LIA.
You know this and yet continue to lie and say it proves man is responsible.
Go change your name again already you lying POS 😆
Sorry gator,but I think Steve R was asking TOO that question.
Oh, I see. It looked and sounded so much like T.O.O.L. that I just shot from the hip. Easy target. 😉
You wrote that you had ZERO in the summer of the 1960’s
“Steve,
What part of NM was that Steve because I can tell you for certain that hail didn’t happen in Albuquerque or Santa Fe during the summers in 60?s.”
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/07/04/fossil-fuel-powered-permanent-drought-strikes-new-mexico/#comment-245356
But the link YOU posted showed they got almost 2 every year on average as shown in Figure 11 in your link for the city area.The data goes back to 1959 and they make no exceptions to frequency except that the earlier years are underreported.
Now I see that FOUR people say they have seen hail in or near Albuquerque in the 1960’s or 1970’s.The NOAA data and the witnesses line up perfectly while yours does not.
You have no credibility.
As I said above:
Tooie Poohie is the DUMBEST, most STUPID, BRAIN-DEAD loser I have seen on this blog. I am actually coming to think that he is REALLY not an AGW Alarmist, but a realist in disguise who is trying, and MASSIVELY succeeding, in making Alarmists LOOK BAD
Tooie Poohie really is STUPID and DISHONEST – he makes up crap on the fly and forgets what he dumped earlier. He lives in such a delusional fantasy he actual thinks MANN made GloBull warming is real, and not just the result of MANN made PlayStation crap. .
I am trying to understand TOO’s point. Is it that climate change has produced more hailstorms than usual in the summer?
I think that’s what he was trying to show. He posted a link to support his viewpoint, but it looks like he just looked at the figures instead of reading the text. T.O.O. claimed that hail increased dramatically in the late 80’s, but reading the text it indicated that this increase was likely due to observational bias (both Steve and I pasted that text here on this thread). The thing is, it really looks like these CAGW types completely check any critical thinking at the door. If T.O.O.’s interpretation of the graph was right, then there’d have been as much hail in 1989 as all the rest of the 80’s combined. And it wouldn’t have been a one-off anomaly either, as that would have been roughly the average in the 90’s. If something like that was actually true, it’d have been reported all over the place, but the explanation of improved observation is much more likely. T.O.O. just doesn’t get stuff like that when the appearance of the graph supports his view. I wonder if he thinks that there were no planetary satellites except our moon before 1610?
He also had another point about May/June vs July/August hail, with him claiming that there wasn’t much hail in July/August. I don’t think this text was shown here, but from the same report he linked to:
It looks like he’s now been spammed, which is an unfortunate result. But I really don’t know how one would handle someone who refuses to read & comprehend the very reports he links to. :-\
-Scott
When it becomes clear that a person has no interest in an honest conversation, what is the point of continuing it?
I think since generally people consider hail to be a bad thing warmist logic (intuition) immediately believes that hail frequency must be increasing due to AGW. Warmists seem to believe that AGW is the reason for anything and everything “bad”
I am trying to understand TOO’s point TOO in the face of better detection and more people with smartphones giving wider coverage.
according to the link TOO posted….Steve is almost right….there’s just a tiny tad less than one a week
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ssd/techmemo/sr207.htm
1959 – 1998 = 39 years
July 160
Aug 99
total 259
259 / 39 = 6.64
8 weeks = 6.64 hail events
so once a month you get a whole week off…..LOL
It’s funny to see all the fun I missed with regard to hailstones. The best part is seeing the original comment from TOO:
“Steve,
Where EXACTLY does hail happen regularly in NM in summer? I have lived here much of my life and I don’t think I have seen hail more than once a decade and I am thinking that was probably in the fall.”
Funny because I then watched him backpeddle over time to cherry pick smaller and smaller geographic areas when he clearly was referencing NW in the summer. Then he says if it happened it was probably in the fall. Clearly an unscientific person using some seriously flawed logic: Hail cold – couldn’t happen in summer, had to be when it was colder – fall.
This is just down the page from him using the term Global Weirding in reference to high temps in the SW and hail in summer.
MAJOR FAIL for TOO!