Several skeptics have made claims that the CO2/greenhouse effect curve is in something called the “linear region” where the energy balance scales linearly with CO2. While there is some tiny grain of truth to this, it is nearly irrelevant. Eighty percent of the current CO2 portion of the greenhouse effect occurs in the first 50 PPM, and 400 PPM is well past the knee of the curve. Going from 400 PPM to 550 PPM will have only a tiny effect on the energy balance in the atmosphere. There is no crisis – just incompetent government scientists
If only it were that simple…
“Applying the physics laws of atmospheric heat transfer, the carbon dioxide behaves as a coolant of the Earth’s surface and the Earth’s atmosphere by its effect of diminishing the total absorptivity and total emissivity of the mixture of atmospheric gases.”
http://www.biocab.org/Overlapping_Absorption_Bands.pdf
I was hoping for data, not just calculations.
Probably hard to collect data that proves pre-industrial down-welling radiation of this wavelength was 397.2 W/m2 and now it is 397.6 W/m2.
I would bet that Mr. Mann could find some proxy crock o’data that would answer this once and for all 🙂
+1 🙂
Still nobody will debate. Let’s first agree that when you make predictions based on a hypothesis, and those predictions are clearly shown by observations to be inaccurate, then it is perfectly logical to question the hypothesis. If P then Q. If no Q then P is incorrect. According to the high priests of science if no Q, then P is still correct because Q is obviously hiding at the bottom of the oceans.
I wonder how this all applies to upwelling IR, since the greenhouse effect is the trapping (slowing) of the upwelling heat.
My understanding of the greenhouse effect is, upwelling IR is absorbed by CO2 and H2O which transfer their heat by conduction to O2, N2 and argon which make up 99% of the atmosphere. What they teach in school is CO2 and H2O are the only players which is just plain stupid. Just because O2 and N2 don’t absorb IR doesn’t mean they don’t get warm. The air in my room is 72 degrees and guess what. The oxygen and nitrogen are 72 degrees. Duh.
There is no “upwelling IR”, there is (globally, neglecting local and transient wind and weather) only heat “falling” naturally through the negative temperature gradient from surface to the top of the troposphere. I have written this over and over, for example:
Put Up or Shut Up, Indeed
Harry, the Sahara desert has a stronger variation of temperatures from day to night than the Amazon region at the same latitude.
This *is* caused by albedo, due to cloud covering, which are ever present in the Amazon region but almost not at all in the Sahara.
You cannot deny this, it is an observed fact.
It cannot be explained by the gradient of pressure from the surface to the troposphere, it is an effect of humidity and cloudiness on the local temps.
It’s related to the composition of the atmosphere.
If you accept that, then you accepting the existence of some type of “greenhouse” effect.
Both phenomena are present, direct collision among molecules *and* scattering and absorption/re-emission of radiation and both are responsible for the final equilibrium temperature of the gas.
Harry Harry Harry. Maybe there’s no net upwelling IR but there’s upwelling IR. It depends on the color temperature of the surface. Sure the sun is hotter but who said it wasn’t?
And I’m sure that applies to 400PPM at 14,608.3’…
The big question is ” WTF” is the saturation value of C02 at 3,854.7′ and what is the content number at that height?