A couple of years ago Walt Meier lectured me that Antarctic sea ice doesn’t matter – because the positive anomalies only occurred during the winter when there is no sun.
arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/timeseries.south.anom.1979-2008
Disrupting the Borg is expensive and time consuming!
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Walt hates to admit that if 60 south, was 60 north…
half of Canada and all of Alaska would be covered in ice
Only 53 days left until we hit 2 years of above normal.
Its worse than the alarmists thought!!
Thanks Steve for showing the real facts, for people that want to make up their minds about climate based on *reality* instead of (pseudo-scientific) *models*.
You would have to be curious enough to search it out on your own, I don’t have time to do it for you; but it is quite fascinating to read why expanding sea in Antarctica actually is an indication of warming and not cooling. Counter intutitive and thats tough for some of you, but seek out the explanation anyway. it is fascinating. Expanding sea ice, verses the mass of ice on the continent, is no more proof of cooling than Steve’s photo of Greenland after a snow fall calling it the “recovery” of the glacers. It’s white, thats close enough, lets call it a recovery. By the way Steve, is your position that we are cooling or that the warming is natural? It can’t be both.
Go make some ice cubes in your microwave.
Avery is saying it’s another climate model FAIL…
…they didn’t predict that
It is very simple, the hot water has all sunk to the bottom of the oceans, leaving cold water on top, which obviously turns to ice more quickly.
Avery,
You speculative attribution is bass-ackwards when compared to the research. Ice formation drives salinity change.
“Water column salinities lower than in 2000 have been reported beneath the McMurdo Ice Shelf on the south side of Ross Island in 2003 and attributed to heavy sea ice cover and large icebergs in the region just prior to their observations (Robinson et al. 2010).”
In 50 years, the Antarctic sea ice freezing point changed by 0.009 degrees C. Even less if we compare starting at the NSIDC standard of 1979. The temperature variation along the increased ice front far exceeds 0.009 variability, therefore salinity changes cannot explain the increased ice.
“…in 50 yr, close to the change that would be expected in the sea surface freezing point (0.009 degrees C) for the observed salinity decline of 0.15 over the same 50 years period. That increase would not add to ocean freshening…”
Did you read that? The increase of 0.009 degrees WOULD NOT add to ocean freshening.
I read it twice. The salinity stuff is complicated. I’m trying to understand. But I do understand that the Antarctic sea ice discussion is a distraction from the more important discussion of the Antarctic land ice. The sea ice melts back to its original starting point each summer and is not overly relevant to the global warming issue.
The Arctic sea is very relevant because it reflects sunlight back out into space. Without the ice, the Arctic ocean absorbs sunlight and gets even warmer, with who knows what feedback effects.
Antarctica land mass and pennisula ice is gaining in some areas, but overall is losing ice. That becomes new mass in the oceans to contribute to sea level rise.
“In 1991-2005 Professor Mörner was head of Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics at Stockholm University, in 1999-2003 president of the commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution, from 2000 on leader of the Maldives International Sea Level Project, in 1997-2003 coordinator of the INTAS project on Geomagnetism and climate, and in 2008,he was awarded the “Golden Condrite of Merit” from Algarve University “for his irreverence and contribution to our understanding of sea level change”.
In 1999, I was expert reviewer of the chapter on Sea Level Changes in the IPCC report. I was struck and shocked by two facts; one was that none of the 22 authors was classified as a true sea level specialist, and the other was the very low quality of the text. Because, I had been just elected president of the International Union for Quaternary Research (INQUA) commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution, I took up the main issue in our commission, an organization hosting some 300-400 true sea level specialists from all around the world. We had the question of sea level prediction for year 2100 open for inter-commissional networking and for discussions at five international meetings. Our best estimate was + 10 cm ±10 cm by year 2100 (lNQUA, 2000). This was significantly lower than the estimates by IPCC (2001). Later, I revised it to +5 cm ±15 cm. This implies that there is a wide difference between estimates from models (IPCC, 2001) and estimates from observational facts.”
http://www.climatechangefacts.info/ClimateChangeDocuments/NilsAxelMornerinterview.pdf
Facts, not speculation.
What latitude is Arctic Sea ice located at and what is the angle of reflection? What latitude is Antarctic Sea Ice located at and is that angle the same or different from the Arctic?
Avery,
Your speculative attribution doesn’t meet reality.
” If the temperature and salinity analyses were true, non-steric components would be significantly large in the southern oceans (Fig. 6). However, there is no answer to this at present, including spatial distributions of non-steric components. Further investigation is needed” (Ishii et al 2006)
What a load of shyte, Avery. More sea ice is caused by warming air temperatures? That explains the icebergs in the Sahara then. And I was under the impression that shyte came out of the tail and not the head of a person. Silly me.
See Guys! SEE!! The CAGW crowd warned us that Antarctic ice would not be normal, AND IT ISN’T!!! IT’S NOT NORMAL!!! Stupid sceptics… I dare you to explain THAT!!!
(sarc off)
When you argue with a fool, it’s 2 fools arguing!
Lemme grab a glass and some scotch. Be right back before you can say carbon taxes for everyone.
Holy hemorrhoidal uproar, said the homo!
“Its much worse than we thought!
The upper troposphere is cooling, not warming, the land masses aren’t warming, as of this morning, 63% of the planetary water cover is cooling and has been cooling for 19 months.
The sun is going to sleep, the C02 is slightly rising and the IMF (inter-planetary magnetic field) and the earth’s magnetic field are in a slow collapse, but we’re talking about AGW???
Yes, we have a crisis in front of us, a huge cooling climate crisis, like a storm forming in the horizon, and it’s about to hit big time, and people are looking in the wrong direction, and doing whatever they can to distract others from looking into the coming storm.
The SH oceans are considerably colder now than in the same period of 2012, but the N. Pacific was a little warmer this year and that may have confused some minds that are not following this more closely.
But it was just an oscillation, the PDO is starting to be more negative again and good part of the equatorial Pacific is below average (IMO caused in part by the expanding Antarctic icecap).
We could have another La Nina forming at the end of this year
https://twitter.com/dhm4444/status/386356661624905728/photo/1
and temperatures start to drop more pronouncedly, as people have been predicting for some time,
http://westernusawx.info/forums/index.php?showtopic=33725&p=589056
http://iceagenow.info/2013/04/leading-scientist-predicts-ice-age/
and
http://iceagenow.info/2013/09/brutal-winter-europe/
Maybe the “first winds” of 2014 will be enough to wake up a few of the distracted ones, but we’re running out of time.
There may be more of it in area but it’s much thinner than it used to be ……..