Experts say that the Arctic is in a “death spiral” – but for the past two years it has been tracking 2005/2006 – the years with the two highest summer extents of the past decade.
For the past four years, summer melt season temperatures in the Arctic have been well below normal.
No matter how many times experts lie about it, the Arctic is not melting down.
Gore: Polar ice cap may disappear by summer 2014
BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Arctic summers ice-free ‘by 2013?
Now, the real question is: when will this Global Warming hypothesis vanish? The CAGW predictions & credibility have become very thin on the ground; whilst all the Ice increases.
With the Arctic sea ice returning to stronger multi year thickness plus Greenland being exposed to longer Winters… The day too, must also be growing close ; whence this Global Warming scam falls over…..
” when will this…vanish”?
Never it seems.
I am so mad it hurts, after that speech by the president yesterday.
It is unbelievable that someone could string together so many complete lies, and do it with straight face.
His speech demonstrates just how immune to actual facts the Warmista crowd is.
They just keep repeating from the same playbook of total lies over and over again, and at this point so many people have fallen for it, will be very difficult to change all those minds.
People are psychologically unable to admit when they are wrong.
It may actually make some sense. Organize the community against Whitey: then move to extort for cash. Organize the community to rally against – ?breathing? – I guess; and move to extort cash.
Far too much money and power behind it for it to die off suddenly. But they still have lost as “Climate Change” lies at or near the bottom of the list of concerns in every major poll. But despite all that lack of public support those behind it can’t seem to get it through their heads that their running down a dead end alley.
So far they have only gotten our money, your kids and grandkids. Got to keep working on the Great-grandkids. After all, “It’s FROM the children”.
The Global Warming scam will not vanish until either its perpetrators can no longer print “money”, or people refuse to be bought. Not holding my breath.
Maybe they will discard it after they get all the global controls they seek.
This year the Potomac froze within sight of the Capitol, and icebreakers were needed to open access to islands in Chesapeake Bay, yet fearless leader kept warning us that “climate change” (treaty definition meaning AGW via CO2) was “Our nations greatest peril.”
If New York Harbor froze solid this November, (not likely) they would still continue on to Paris, where I expect them to simply buy the delegates. Perhaps some will refuse the money and not cave to the ensuing threats and blackmail. We’ll see.
The Arctic isn’t going to melt down anytime soon. This should be obvious to anyone who spends time outside or watches a weather report. Other than hysterical predictions by insane politicians and paid off shills, we are not experiencing anything anyone should consider abnormal in our weather or anything not experienced in the past. Nothing that would suggest the Arctic is going to melt down to bits of ice small enough to fit in your iced tea glass. There is no smoking gun.
The alarmists have hung their hats on the fate of Arctic ice. It’s like the fate of a death row inmate. He spends 50 years on death row and in the end his sentence is commuted to life. It’s time the fate of Arctic sea ice was commuted to life by the progressive witch hunting alarmists.
In any honest debate on CAGW the alarmists always lose. Alarmists need to recognize that the Earth is not cooperating with their beliefs and move on to their next great absurd cause; whatever that is.
when have alarmists engaged in an honest debate?
GRIP Ice Core 248KYr Accumulation Rate Data
DATA COVERAGE: North-bound Latitude: 72.58 * South-bound Latitude: 72.58
West-bound Longitude: -37.63 * East-bound Longitude: -37.63
Start Year: 248763 cal yr BP * End Year: -39 cal yr BP
ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/icecore/greenland/summit/grip/physical/gripacum.txt
Did not see any negative accumulation numbers in this file. So it has only gotten more for 248,000 years. Got to stop adding before it can melt.
who would have thought it. personally after reading about blowtorches being taken to the arctic on the arctic sea ice forum i was expecting all the ice to have melted out already this year .frivolousz21 on the arctic sea ice forum must live in a parallel universe where modeled weather forecasts come to fruition and observed conditions have no effect 😉
if nothing else it is highly entertaining to watch.
I think that I am not the only one who misses Reggie and his “blowtorch” from a couple of years ago. He at least started out polite, even if he got a bit testy later on. The thing I find really interesting about the Reggies of the world is not that they come to mistaken beliefs — heck, we ALL make mistakes in judgement! — it is that he was so darn certain that he was right. It is that extraordinary level of certainty that I find amazing. Many people do not do ambiguity well; they refuse to recognize that almost all of our ideas need to have that little bit of “but maybe I am wrong” included. Lack of all doubt is, well, it is unscientific.
As Tony has posted on the headlines of this blog, “Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts” – Richard Feynman
Lack of doubt is a hallmark of lack of intelligence.
It really is as simple as that.
With the exception of those who know that they are lying, anyone who can be so confident is a total fool
I think you summed up very succinctly something that has been a mystery to me for years. Thanks!
Of course, I am not completely sure this is true.
🙂
And I cannot take credit for having realized this myself:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.”
– Bertrand Russell
the only cure for ignorance is an open mind , the repeated posting of evidence by steve that everything reported as catastrophe in the msm today has already happened in the past should somewhat allay any fears people may have of imminent thermageddon .
that in many cases it does not,leads me to believe more minds need to be opened 🙂
Hello again Chilly! Any further thoughts on the “small print” for our bet?
You may be pleased to discover that last night I was sinking a few beers in the company of a real live climate modeller from the Hadley Centre. I mentioned our little wager to him, and reckons the odds are 75/25 in your favour! Meanwhile, back in the present in the real world, here are the actual facts about the sea ice in the Arctic at the moment:
http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2015/05/arctic-sea-ice-fails-to-track-2005-06/
Jim,
I really like the metric related cherry-picking. One could think the volume of ice were important. Or area. Or extent. Or extent-15%. But they’re really not important at such.
The important thing is did it happen as predicted and did the world end?
Anyways, your sarcasm was a pearl to a pig. And frankly, I’m not convinced. I’m still on let’s make a bet mood.
Hugh – Are you by any chance referring to “Steve”/Tony’s predictions last year of “tracking 2006”. If so then they most certainly did not “happen as predicted”!
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/08/01/my-arctic-forecast-4/
“The minimum this summer will likely be close to the 2006 minimum, which was the highest minimum of the past decade.”
QED?
hi jim . considering i gave you the most favourable metric of ct area ,in full knowledge of the fact that many areas classed as open water are indeed just melt ponds on top of thick ice i will wait to see nearer the time how the various groups doing the measuring are faring in the run up to the conclusion of the bet.
i am fairly confident ct area will be the decider. they might even do me a favor and work out how to separate melt ponds from true open water by then 🙂
It’s quite sickening to see these hypocrites post things like…”We now face an angry climate…one we have poked in the eye with our fossil fuel stick…and have to deal with the consequences”. If you look at Mr. Beckwith’s picture, he is seated in a comfortable office likely heated/cooled and lighted by fossil fuel generated electricity, wearing clothes that were produced and delivered to his local store with the help of fossil fuels, and posting to an internet infrastructure that is most definitely supported by fossil fuel-based energy systems. These people never ever “walk the walk” when it comes to living “off the grid” and free of fossil fuels. They, themselves, have benefited all their lives from a prosperous lifestyle based on fossil fuel energy, but now wish to screw future generations (who can’t even find jobs in the current economy) while they live large. Nauseating!
I have two relatives who are devout CAGWers. For amusement, they often travel all over the US in their big RV, driving around for weeks at a time. Hypocrisy? None that they see…
I have a dream that someday truckers will just refuse to deliver anything to extreme left wing towns like Berkeley, CA. Let them get their goods to market using horses, donkeys, bicycles, and solar power!
It is almost impossible because of the way the trucking industry is now days. Far too many companies to get that kind of thing together and the Teamsters are a mere shadow of what they were during the days of Jimmy Hoffa. But if by some miracle it were to happen more than likely the targets would be the east coast population centers, like NYC, where they make it so miserable for trucking with their laws and failure to provide a reasonable amount of parking and facilities. If it ever happened It would be hell on earth for any place with a rather high population density if truckers really boycotted them for even a few days.
Tony – check this link out!
http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2015/03/september-2015-without-arctic-sea-ice.html
Man. I was seriously asking myself whether that article could have been an Onion type satire.
So no ice by September, followed by an extinction event level global catastrophe.
And the commenters ate it up. We may have a few characters in the blog community here, but those people are seriously buying the end of our civilization within our lifetime (or even the decade). These people are real tinfoil hat types. My best friend’s house was once shot up by a literally tinfoil hat wearing loony who was convinced they were beaming radio signals into his head, so that’s not a term I use lightly.
I know at least one CAGW enthusiast who was telling me four or five years ago that the earth had already passed the tipping point and that he was trying to reconcile himself to the knowledge that humanity had already essentially destroyed the bulk of all life on the planet. He had a sort of “dead planet walking” outlook…
I always thought that Hell had seven circles, but these guys have managed to dig out number eight and settle themselves in. The horrific thing is that they LIKE living there. Any data that could weaken their belief in CAGW is met with anger and name calling.
That is one of the bigger mysteries of the CAGW crowd…they are so emphatic about how surely and truly awful the calamity which will soon befall us all. And yet, when they are shown to be wrong, they are never EVER happy about it, or relieved, or given to reconsideration.
The Arctic News commenters make Jim Hunt look sane. I understand we will be “self-extincted” and “self-genocided” by 2020 if we don’t implement The Climate Plan:
http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2014/07/climate-plan.html
http://climateplan.blogspot.com
roflmao..
They want to restore the CO2 level to long term average..
suits me… 🙂
long term average , by eyeballing looks like around 2000-3000 ppm
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cHhMa7ARDDg/SNW-4aiO9PI/AAAAAAAAAd8/5wuDuVDjYqI/s400/Geocarb+III-Mine-02.jpg
Thanks for your kind words Colorado!
Whilst we wait to see what 2020 brings, back here in 2015 Arctic sea ice continues not to track 2005/6:
http://greatwhitecon.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/JAXA_20150525.png
No, its above 2006 and 2007.
http://www.natice.noaa.gov/ims/images/sea_ice_only.jpg
And there is still WAY more Arctic sea ice than there has been for most of the last 10,000 years, isn’t there, Jimmy-boi ! 😉
You KNOW that, so, come one, admit it. Are you brave enough ?????
And its going to be interesting to see if the Antarctic sets a new record this year.
Its hugging last years huge expanse of ice pretty closely.
http://www.iup.uni-bremen.de:8084/amsr2/extent_s_running_mean_amsr2_regular.png
The article was bad enough. Did you read the comments? Holy Moley!
Could we arrange an insurance? Like, they pay us, if it doesn’t melt, we pay them if it melts?
That was the greatest What If story ever told.
According to the article linked below Paul Beckwith is a “mature PhD student and part-time climatology professor”. That is frightening.
http://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2013/03/20/prediction-failed-miserably-just-make-a-new-one/
This guy Paul Beckwith was running a tumblr site called Collapse of Industrial Civilization, where he describes himself as “a social critic, political/cultural commentator and artist.”
But there is more: “My objective is to highlight important news stories and essays to find the truth that is hidden behind what Joe Bageant called the American Hologram.”
It’s not up to date with the last post in Nov 2014 with an article about how the melting Arctic was deforming the jet stream causing the record snows in Buffalo…. You can also find dates for the 2015 anarchist film festival among other things.
If ever there was an America and capitalist hating, class warfare inciting, end-of-the-world POV, communist revolution yearning, human population despising rag that Che Guevara would love as his first read in the morning before mass executions…breathe in ahhhhh…This site is it.
This guy is the biggest whack job since Che, at least in academic circles it appears, but thankfully his if his past predictions are any indicator, our industrial civilization has many centuries left.
Che Guevara? Read this. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2001/08/humberto-fontova/you-want-to-see-anger/ No — really! It is worth a quick read! 🙂
We have plenty of such punks in the Democratic People’s Republic of Boulder. I’m glad Humberto looked closer at the likeness before proceeding.
https://coloradowellington.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/red-poster-cherack.jpg
O-buoy 9 seems to be showing that when the winds crack the ice and form leads of open water, they are still freezing over, and even perhaps crunching back together to form pressure ridges (which increases volume.) It is getting late in the spring for such stuff to be happening. I’ve seen thawing and rains occur, in late May, on other years.
https://sunriseswansong.wordpress.com/2015/05/21/arctic-sea-ice-brief-buoy-reports/
Caleb – For some strange reason you neglect to mention any of the numerous buoys in the Beaufort and Chukchi Seas. What do you make of 2015A for example?
http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/irid_data/2015A_temp.png
P.S. Would you mind popping over to WUWT in order to respond to my enquiries there?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/05/16/headline-indications-arctic-may-become-temperate-zone/#comment-1937809
Northwest Passage, summer 1944
“Later in 1944, Larsen’s return trip was far more swift than his first. He made the trip in 86 days to sail back from Halifax, Nova Scotia to Vancouver, British Columbia. He set a record for traversing the route in a single season.”
Summer 2013
“The Northwest Passage after decades of so-called global warming has a dramatic 60% more Arctic ice this year than at the same time last year. The future dreams of dozens of adventurous sailors are now threatened. A scattering of yachts attempting the legendary Passage are caught by the ice, which has now become blocked at both ends and the transit season may be ending early.”
http://www.sail-world.com/North-West
Where is your data for sea ice level from 1944, Jimmy-boi?
Have you got another fabrication for us ?
What’s any of that got to do with the temperatures reported by the buoys bobbing about in the Beaufort in 2015?
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php
Show us that regions temps for a similar period in 1944, Jimmy
And very close to the 10ºC July hydrotherm.
Jimmy-boi the cherry-picker, strikes again
http://www.geographicguide.net/pictures/arctic/arctic-map.gif
It strikes me that Caleb is the one who’s been cherry picking! If you prefer try 2015B instead:
http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/irid_data/2015B_temp.png
Gees, just above freezing, near the edge of the Arctic, the 10C July isotherm.
No wonder you call your site the “CON”.. its all you have.
Buoy 2015B is located here: http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/irid_data/2015B_track.png
That area of the arctic has been subjected to imported Pacific air for a week. O-buoy 12 is in that area, and shows the rise in temperatures, to hovering around freezing, on May 18: http://obuoy.datatransport.org/monitor#buoy12/weather
Buoy 2015B also measures the thickness of the ice. The ice had grown about 0.3 meters thicker since Buoy 2015B was placed on that ice on March 26: http://obuoy.datatransport.org/monitor#buoy12/weather
Sorry. My mistake. The link to the thickness of the ice under Buoy 2015B is here: http://obuoy.datatransport.org/monitor#buoy12/weather
Drat. It happened again! I’ll try one more time: http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/newdata.htm
It looks like the right link now, but if it reverts to the Obouy site try http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/ and clock “Go To New Results” at the top of the page. But if that reverts to the Obuoy site, google “Mass Balance Buoy” and you’ll find a link to the site.
Sheesh. I don’t know what’s up with my computer tonight!
For some strange reason Jim Hunt AKA “Snow White” fails to comprehend I don’t respond to him, and have been quite clear about my reasons.
For those who are curious, roughly a year ago, at this site, he posted a highly misleading NRL ice-thickness map which made the ice look 3 feet thinner than the publicly published NRL ice-thickness map. When called on it by several people, he refused to admit he was misleading. Instead he became evasive and wasted everyone’s time with absurdly coy arguments that did more to muddy the waters than to clarify. I have better things to do than to be drawn into discussions that don’t clarify.
The 2015A buoy was recently placed on sea-ice right on the north coast of Alaska. It’s location can be seen here: http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/irid_data/2015A_track.png
Buoy 2015A is effected by recent off shore breezes, which are mild because the land warms more swiftly than the Arctic Sea once the snow is gone, and also the air was of Pacific origin.
All the Army mass-balance buoys can be found at this summary-site: http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/newdata.htm
The NRL maps, along with much other useful data, can be found at the WUWT Sea Ice site at http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/sea-ice-page/
Sites like mine or “Snow White’s” are very minor, and are of absolutely no use if they don’t clarify anything.
Caleb – Much more detail about the Army mass-balance buoys (and others) can be found at this summary page:
http://GreatWhiteCon.info/resources/ice-mass-balance-buoys/winter-201415-imbs/
The Army assure me “You are plotting the temperature profiles quite nicely”.
You keep making your “misleading” and “evasive” accusations without ever backing them up. Please desist. Here’s the thread you refer to:
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/08/14/more-detail-on-the-arctic-catastrophe/
and here’s an extract from one of my comments, which it seems is pertinent even now:
Over and over other people on here keep changing the subject. Over and over other people on here keep calling us names whilst betraying their own ignorance about the US Navy’s Arctic sea ice models and simultaneously failing to do their own research amongst the wide range of Arctic facts and figures helpfully provided by “Snow White” and I.
See above!
Your “CON” page again..
We know where the con/scam is. You don’t need to point us.
Andy – At the risk of repeating myself:
The Army assure me “You are plotting the temperature profiles quite nicely”
I don’t recall seeing Caleb, “Steve” or Anthony ever receiving similar approbation. Do you?
By way of an example of what you’re missing, here’s one I prepared earlier:
http://greatwhitecon.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/2015-05-09_2015A-400.png
For course its a con/scam, why else are you here?
The “con/scam”‘ is to persuade people that Arctic sea ice decrease is..
a) unusual, and
b) a problem.
Its part of the whole global warming scam.
You know that the Arctic was navigable in some places in 1944, not since., but neglect to mention that on your puny little propaganda site
GISP data clearly shows that Greenland, and therefore almost certainly the whole arctic area, was warmer in the MWP, RWP, and for all of the preceding 8,000 or so years of the Holocene. Arctic sea ice was almost certainly much less abundant for at least some part of the year. Ports would have sprung up on the Arctic shore, with abundant fishing, and transport.
We are in fact on a small molehill at the top of minor warming out of the coldest time in the last 10,000 plus years. The slight decline in sea ice is neither unusual nor a problem. In fact, I would say that the level of Arctic sea ice over the last few hundred years has been the major problem for all those Arctic countries..
Just like the 2C committee-decided, zero-science limit they try to put on global warming, which will not happen anyway the small decline in Arctic sea ice is almost certainly a plus, rather than a negative, opening up tracts of sea and coast that have been locked away for hundreds or years during the LIA.
Which climate trough do YOU swill from, Jimmy-boi?
ps, I note that your illegible, meaningless graph ends up below freezing.
pps.. to avoid seeming a total hypocrite, you should change your avatar to show that you live in a cold place, rather than enjoying a nice WARM climate.
Andy – GWC is full of Arctic sea ice data, some of it unavailable anywhere else, and certainly not here!
Apparently “Snow White” isn’t welcome here any more. You can see Cattlewash in the background of my own avatar. Soup Bowl is off to the right:
https://youtu.be/d8RbqY7zdYQ
Once upon a time I was invited to supper at the house visible in the background at 1:02
“US Navy’s Arctic sea ice models ” says it all jim . models, models everywhere , not an observation to be seen. four weeks from now the true extent of multi year sea ice will be revealed when the current “unprecedented melt” slows as a result of the increase in multi year ice.
i find it hilarious you accuse others of changing the subject when arctic alarmists,including yourself ,pick up on any metric that appears to support your narrative in any given year. when summer extent is low, that is the metric you focus on . the last couple of years when summer extent has had something of a rebound you then focused on volume, now volume has increased all of a sudden winter extent is the important metric . subsequently forgetting all the recent lowest ever during satellite era quotes mainly stem from the low winter extent and will rapidly change once the areas that traditionally melt out near 100% are gone.
Hi Chilly – And there was me thinking it was “Steve”/Tony who “pick[ed] up on any metric that appears to support [his] narrative in any given year”!
There are lots of “observations” over at “Snow White’s” place. Haven’t you inspected them yet whilst doing your due diligence prior to taking the other side of our little wager? It appears not, so please see:
http://GreatWhiteCon.info/resources/arctic-sea-ice-images/winter-201415-images/
By way of a recent example:
http://greatwhitecon.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/LC8-Beaufort-20150518-400.jpg
I find it somewhat amazing that Jim Hunt AKA “Snow White” can post a link to his highly misleading NRL ice-thickness map, even after a year, without a bit of shame. Even a dog looks guilty, when you push its nose in its poop, but Jim wags his tail.
I believe that, in the case of small children, this is called “gaining negative attention.” They feel so neglected that, to get attention, they will resort to doing stuff that gets them in trouble, such as balancing a Ming vase on their head and saying, “Lookit, Mom! Lookit me!”
In the case of small children one is suppose to correct the negative behavior with as little “attention” as possible, and to make sure to give them more “attention” for positive behavior. This works on children aged five, but Snow White will require some sort of more drastic cure, and I haven’t the time for such psychiatry.
A sign of how desperate he is for attention is how he takes any response, (even a form letter), from any individual or agency he considers ViP, and spins it into the conviction that he rubs elbows with the stars, and is indeed one of them.
The pity is that he does know a thing or two about sea ice, but he spoils it all by being unreliable and misleading.
Come on Jimmy-boi.. you can do it…
Find some honesty and integrity from somewhere (as if), and admit that it is highly probable that there was LESS sea ice during the MWP, RWP and the most of the previous 8000 years, and that the current small drop in Arctic sea ice, due to the period of strong solar cycles in the latter part of last century, is nothing at all unusual or worrisome.
Caleb – I believe you’re the adventurous type? You do make me chuckle though!
Firstly, can you provide any evidence to back up all the ad homs you keep flinging in the general direction of poor “Snow White”?
Secondly, do you prefer to wear neoprene or fur?
https://youtu.be/pJE_v2ifsFk
“Find some honesty and integrity from somewhere”
crickets chirping. …………………………………………
that looks suspiciously like an ice breaker has been through there jim ? or is it ridging from separate ice sheets moving ?
one thing i will mention, some of the people on the asif seem to forget the scale involved in some of the satellite images. i see comments of slush and chunks aimed at pieces of ice that are tens of miles square,do they understand just how much more ice is under the water and the sheer volume of ice they are looking at ?
the reason i was happy to make the bet is that last 2.5 million km2 of ice is so thick there is no chance of it melting out in my lifetime, even if friv were to stay up there with a blowtorch for a decade . it really is a big lump of ice.
Chilly – Are you talking about the “blue” image above?
If so there were no ice-breakers involved. Merely broken ice. The paler lines between the melt ponds might well be pressure ridges.
the view from 2015b jim.
Let’s try again
Come on Jimmy-boi.. you probably can’t do it… but at least try …
Find some honesty and integrity from somewhere (as if), and admit that it is highly probable that there was LESS sea ice during the MWP, RWP and the most of the previous 8000 years, and that the current small drop in Arctic sea ice, due to the period of strong solar cycles in the latter part of last century, is nothing at all unusual or worrisome.
Chilly – Still no icebreakers involved! A lead opened up, then closed again to produce a modest pressure ridge. Now the surface is slushy!
Here’s the current temperature profile for 2015B:
http://greatwhitecon.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/2015-05-15-2015B-1024×624.png
Andy – Let’s try again shall we? Tony’s OP is comparing 2015 with 2005/6. Not “the MWP, RWP or the the previous 8000 years”.
Why don’t you ask Caleb to “find some honesty and integrity from somewhere”? Then he might stop calling me names and start addressing the issues.
“Models, models everywhere” as Chilly put it.
So Jimmy-boi’s little CON continues. (Conning himself only)
Unable to admit a basic truth, twisting and turning like a little worm….. pathetic.
Andy – Whilst you’re at it why don’t you stop calling me names and start addressing the issues?
Why should I stop calling you a con-man. That is why you are here.
You even name your web site after yourself. A Great Big CON.
You REFUSE to admit that most of the Holocene has been warmer and that there was almost certainly less Arctic ice for most of that time.
It is you that is not facing the real issue, that being that low Arctic sea ice level is the NORM over the past 10,000 odd years.
You run, you hide, you squirm, like a slimy little eel.
Just in case anybody’s interested, it’s getting very slushy around Ice Mass Balance buoy 2015B. For the historical observations see:
http://GreatWhiteCon.info/resources/arctic-sea-ice-images/winter-201415-images/#IMB2015B
The current picture looks like this:
http://greatwhitecon.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2015B-cam-20150522-1.jpg
Looks like this at Summit in Greenland
http://www.summitcamp.org/static/images/status/view/webcam.jpg
This from Arctic 2 webcam
http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/NPEO2015/2015cam2_1.jpg
This from Arctic 1 webcam
http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/NPEO2015/2015cam1_1.jpg
Your point is pointless in the ever shifting and changing environment of the Arctic.
rah – My point is not pointless. The Arctic is not homogenous. Wait and see.
Jim Hunt says:
May 23, 2015 at 8:39 am
…………..”The Arctic is not homogenous”………
Neither is the weather/temps in the atmosphere but don’t tell that to the US Government with their homogenized temperature records.
The first few times I saw you post the graph of seasonal Arctic temperatures, I thought that the recent elevated temperatures during the winter months somehow offset the cooler summer temps. But over time as I’ve read more here and at WUWT, I came to understand that elevated winter temperatures are actually more indications that sea ice extent should grow over time.
The way I understand it, melting of ice is an endothermic process, while freezing of ice is an exothermic process. So, if you have more sea water freezing into ice during the winter, you would expect more release of heat from the Arctic ocean into the atmosphere and a slight rise in air temps. The temperatures are still well below freezing so new ice is unlikely to melt as a result of the modest elevation. Meanwhile, the absolute best place for atmospheric heat to radiate out into space is at the poles during winter when there is little or no incoming sunlight, so the more atmosphere heat over the poles in winter, the better the planet is able to emit heat and maintain energy balance.
So it seems that to maximize the formation of new ice at the poles you would want to see slightly elevated temperatures during the winter months and reduced temperatures during the summer months, which matches the pattern over the past few years.
Latent heat of water freezing simply prevents more water from freezing. It doesn’t raise temperature.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/
Actual photographs…..
looks miles and miles of sea ice..
Where? I see no “actual photographs”. Just a smattering of computer generated pixels.
Day 141, May 21 results from MASIE. A day of losses with 2015 building on its lead.
2014 lost about 130k on this day while 2015 lost 70k km2 down to 12.64M km2. The loss is at 13.1% from NH max on day 93. 2015 lead is 0.6%, which is about 80k km2 difference.
Some Arctic ice watchers are focused on the BCE region: Beaufort, Chukchi and East Siberian Seas. It seems that when multi-year ice collects in this region, the Arctic Sea ice margin is protected, and the melting is reduced, resulting in a higher September minimum. Thus an early melting in BCE region can signal a lower summer minimum for NH ice extent, and vice-versa.
To monitor this, I have added a BCE index, being the total 2015 ice extent in BCE as a % of total 2014 extent in the same region. All figures from MASIE.
https://rclutz.wordpress.com/2015/05/12/arctic-ice-watch-2015-2/
It’d be better to look at global ice due to the polar ice being subject to sublimation as it gets colder. Alarmists think ice only melts from warming but it evaporates from cooling too.
Warming would be MUCH more preferable to the probable cooling the Earth is about to experience. Maybe a few more of the frozen regions could be thawed out and become productive for the world’s fauna and flora.
Imagine if the Arctic was navigable for a reasonable part of the year, the benefits would be enormous, 🙂
When the start growing grapes in northern Ontario I might think Jim was right. But as it is right now vineyards in Michigan and Eastern NY are having tougher than normal times because of the cold. http://midwestwinepress.com/2014/02/12/freeze-damage-grapevines-michigan/
Not that I drink that much wine. However I have and do pass by many vineyards in those states frequently and so see the effects at times.
Tony,
Do you still claim that “Arctic Sea Ice Continues To Track 2005/2006”?
http://greatwhitecon.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/JAXA-20150523.png
Gees, maybe the Arctic ice will melt, let’s all hope so!!…and we can all get back to the abundance and optimum temperatures of the rest of the Holocene, instead of this COLD period we are currently living in. The LIA was CRUEL, and you idiots want it to continue.
Come on Jimmy-fool, ADMIT that for 60-70% at least of the current interglacial, the Arctic has been WARMER and therefore has almost certainly had LESS sea ice than the current slightly warm period.
Have you got the honesty to do that,, not a chance. !!
Keep your little money-sucking CON going, that’s all that’s important to you and your trougher buddies.
” Gees, maybe the Arctic ice will melt, let’s all hope so!!…and we can all get…”
Yeah, Shell is already on the way to get some more oil out of the arctic, they’d really like to see an ice-free arctic ocean to suck more oil, more CO2 to get back to WARMER faster. Bon voyage.
Again, note Jimmy-noi’s refusal to admit the reality of the past Holocene Arctic.
Man-up, if you can, Jimmy !!
Again, note Andy’s continued refusal to answer a simple question directly related to the title of this thread.
Honesty is NOT any part of your being is it.
You cannot hide the FACT that Arctic ice is probably near its highest in the whole of the Holocene…you just have to concentrate on a piddling few years of beneficial warming.
You just do not have the guts or the honesty to admit it, do you.
Run and hide Jimmy, sun-lover, and con merchant.
And I hope the Arctic ice tracks closer to 2013..
Highly beneficial for the whole world if the Artic becomes like it was earlier in the Holocene, Ice free for a reasonable period.
See what I mean? At the risk of repeating myself repeating myself:
“Do you still claim that “Arctic Sea Ice Continues To Track 2005/2006??”
I don’t care if it is or not, its all within a tight band of measurement error. http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/plots/icecover/icecover_current.png
So Jimmy..
still refusing to admit that a small drop in sea ice since the 1998 El Nino is nothing compared to what would have happened in most of the rest of the Holocene.
Admit it. ! And stop squirming like a little worm on a hook !
Norsex has it above 2007. 2008
http://arctic-roos.org/observations/satellite-data/sea-ice/ice-area-and-extent-in-arctic
IMS has the total NH sea ice level above 2007and 2006, currently equalling 2014
http://www.natice.noaa.gov/ims/images/sea_ice_only.jpg
Choose which ever data set you want to go with your little con, jimmy. !
Base your hysteria on a nice short period of slight warming, rather than considering the reality that we have just pull out of the coldest period of the whole of the last 10,000 years.
Scare yourself stupider.
You appear to be the one who’s getting hysterical Andy 🙂
Note that Jimmy, the con-man STILL refuses to admit the reality of the past Holocene Arctic.
I know your fellow climate-troughers won’t like it, but have some guts and integrity for once in your life.
So funny watching you wiggle and squirm.. 🙂
Tony, Andy, rah and Darwin,
Do you still claim that “Arctic Sea Ice Continues To Track 2005/2006? just like it says in big, bold letters at the top of the page?
I don’t really care Jim.
I’m more concerned with people like you believing government “scientists” and propagandists who have lied for over 40 years.
Can you explain why, after the failure of every prediction that you still “believe”?
That’s the impression I got Darwin!
I’m looking at the data. What do your beliefs and predictions, or mine, or those of “government ‘scientists’ and propagandists” for that matter, have to do with that?
Your “data” shows all the predictions of the AGW propagandists were wrong.
There isn’t supposed to be any ice in the Arctic.
I don’t care if Arctic ice has low years and high years. I want to know why you continue to be a proponent of something which hasn’t been proven and all it’s predictions were false.
Again, nothing predicted by global warming advocates in the last 40 years has come true … as proven by your “data”.
You will not find any post from me stating such claim. But facts like that mean little to you now do they? Now that you mention it I would say that the divergence at this time is not enough to lose any sleep over. Or to go around harping about it either. It could change the other way very quickly. Then where would you be? Not here, I’m pretty sure.
Besides, the Antarctic has been more than making up for the ice loss in the Arctic. Global extent yesterday being the 7th highest for this day on record.
Not that either really matters that much to me in the larger scheme of things since the hypothesis of CAGW has already been blown out of the water time and again and again and again. It simply is not happening and has not happened as it was predicted to by those whom you seem to believe in.
nor me, as I said, I prefer it tracked a lot lower.
I prefer to look at the FACT that we are, thankfully, climbing out of the 1970’s cooler period, and before that the LIA. The fact that we are still near the lowest temperature of the whole last 10,000 years seems to be ignored by the alarmist con men like Jimmy.
In fact, they absolutely REFUSE to admit that fact.
Source for the graph please.
rah – I take it that you never bother to click any of my links? Here it is again. Just scroll down a bit:
http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2015/05/arctic-sea-ice-fails-to-track-2005-06/
There’s Jimmy-boi’s CON web site again.
Why would anyone bother.. you have proved its a propaganda scam site already.
PHISHING for visitors, hey Jimmy !!
Nothing the AGW propagandists predicted in the last 40 years has come true … including the disappearance of polar sea ice.
Yet you still “believe”. The Soviets had a term for people like you.