http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/24688.html?MR=1
Excellent trick or treat weather for the little ones.
Temperatures have dropped about fifty degrees over the last two weeks, because of all the heat being trapped by CO2 as we pass the tipping point.
Why isn’t Joe writing about Russia any more?
Come on Steve!
You know that is only a weather event,they do not count.You have to remember the Warmist creed.When they pray everyday to their AGW god.
Cold = Weather
Warm= Climate
Hot= I am doomed!
The recent heatwave was their warmest on record.
Is the current weather coldest on record?
Arizona had cold records broken last year that were more than 100 years old. The records were formerly from all the way back to the end of the Little Ice Age. Colder than the Little Ice Age—Brrrrrrrrr.
warmest on record
It’s really too bad that their record doesn’t go back to the medieval Warm Period so that perspective could be brought to your argument.
But this graph will give perspective to your argument:
http://www.atmos.washington.edu/1998Q4/211/project2/lia-pic3.gif
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 2:36 am
The recent heatwave was their warmest on record.
How do we know if those temperatures have been adjusted for Urban Heat Island (UHI)? It could very well be that it wasn’t as hot as you think it was.
The heat in Russia, and the floods in Pakistan, have both happened at the same time before in history, 132 years ago, before the “Modern Global Warming Era”. That is evidence that the heatwave was only part of natural variation.
I have posted this video before but you may not have seen it. So I’ll post it here. (I’m not trying to be redundant, just want everyone to get a chance to see it)
It also happened 132 years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRRXZ1B5foE
Because he can’t see Russia from his house???
I get it. Nice. 🙂
Why is it you can’t gether your thoughts, then start typing. Why the need for multiple posts one after another.
Is it the different personalities all having a turn?
You are addressing me?
It’s not an issue of gathering thoughts so I can say everything in one comment. It’s an issue of separate thoughts in separate comments. I’m sure you are allowed to do it too.
LOL. Exactly my point.
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 3:16 am
LOL. Exactly my point.
You prefer to make longer comments that cover more than one idea. I do not prefer to do that. Why do you laugh because I am not like you? If everyone thought like you then you would feel no need to laugh at them?
Again, it’s good that you guys comment so that your personalities are revealed.
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 2:51 am
Is it the different personalities all having a turn?
You are meaning that if anyone has more than a one track mind that means they have something wrong with them?
Maybe the idea that the climate has anything other than global warming happening in it, that one track of thinking, is too much for you top wrap your head around.
Why isn’t Joe writing about Russia any more?
Because there’s already too much lipstick on that pig. ;o)
Perhaps he will when they have a winter that is the coldest on record.
The entire summer in Russia was the hottest on record? I was unaware of that news. Or did you mean that ~2 weeks in summer and not really the whole summer? Because it looks like you were talking about a whole winter in comparison.
Just trying to keep things in perspective.
A few weeks of record cold weather should do the trick. That’d be nice to hear about.
So there was a few continuous weeks of record heat in Russia?
So record heat in one location of one Nation, not even covering an entire Nation, let alone a continent, let alone the entire globe, is the requisite for evidence that global warming is happening?
It’s a result of global warming happening.
-41F is the result of global warming? Or are you off-topic again?
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 3:00 am
A few weeks of record cold weather should do the trick. That’d be nice to hear about.
…………………………………………………………………………………….
Why? Why is that now required?
Would you explain why it needs to be RECORD cold? Is he supposed to be proving that ‘global cooling’ is happening instead of ‘global warming’? Or that global cooling is happening instead of instead of natural variation? You are saying record cold for a few weeks would mean global warming isn’t happening?
Is weeks of record cold now the standard for proof that global warming is not happening?
Would you justify this line of reasoning? Why do you need such extremities? Now only record cold means that global warming is happening?
Steve says: “-41F is the result of global warming? Or are you off-topic again?”
If it were otherwise -45F then yes, that’d be warmer. 😉
You understand how anomalies work right?
It is the middle of October. Winter doesn’t start for two months. Pull your head out of the nether regions. You are embarrassing yourself and wasting everyone’s time.
Albino on Acid says: “Would you explain why it needs to be RECORD cold? Is he supposed to be proving that ‘global cooling’ is happening instead of ‘global warming’? ”
No. It would need to be that to be newsworthy, just as new record high temps are newsworthy.
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 3:17 am
It’s a result of global warming happening.
I guess you didn’t see the video I posted. I guess you didn’t want to consider adjustment for UHI. I guess that adjustment is not to be considered juat like all adjustments made at GISS are not to be considered. Warm biases are good.
But what if there was such a thing as cold biases? Let’s say a temperature station was placed in front of an open refrigerator door—would you have a problem with that? That would be ridiculous, huh. But a temperature station on a hot tar roof—-no problem.
It’s good that the name calling started. I like it that you guys talk a lot. The more you talk the more people she what you are all about.
I’ve already discussed UHI in other threads and still you come up blank when faced with the reality that rural trends are almost identical to urban trends.
Yes Urban areas a re warmer, but the increase in temps is almost the same as Rural areas.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/urban-heat-island-effect.htm
stevengoddard says:
October 28, 2010 at 3:28 am
You are embarrassing yourself
Which I think is good.
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 3:34 am
I’ve already discussed UHI in other threads and still you come up blank when faced with the reality that rural trends are almost identical to urban trends.
I did address it. But the answer wasn’t what you think is good enough. But satisfying your standards isn’t important—though you may think it is. We all see what we want to see, don’t we.
What do you see here?
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x5/amyponder13/psychopics/RorshachInkblot.gif
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 3:34 am
I’ve already discussed UHI in other threads
Ok. But I don’t feel like going on a journey through threads to search for what you said. I don’t think any readers should have to do it either.
So address it here for readers to see instead of leaving the impression you’re really a smart chap and we shouldn’t need to question your nonchalance.
“What do you see here?”
A site that’s blocked by the firewall.
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 3:34 am
I’ve already discussed UHI in other threads
Oh my goodness dude, you linked to the Jones China paper. Thanks! 🙂
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 3:54 am
“What do you see here?”
A site that’s blocked by the firewall.
……………………………………………………………………………….
It was photobucket
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 3:54 am
“What do you see here?”
A site that’s blocked by the firewall.
ok, here:
http://www.danesorensen.com/sod/rorschach1.jpg
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 3:28 am
just as new record high temps are newsworthy.
You did see my comment about the Medieval Warm Period?
“ok, here: What do you see here?”
A timewaster.
If you wish to discuss UHI go ahead. I’ve link to evidence to show that rural and urban trends closely match. And no, it’s not just Hansen’s work.
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 4:01 am
“ok, here: What do you see here?”
A timewaster.
If you wish to discuss UHI go ahead. I’ve link to evidence to show that rural and urban trends closely match. And no, it’s not just Hansen’s work.
You linked to the Phil Jones/China paper. Again, thanks, for linking to a controversial paper with one of its authors a part of ClimateGate.
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 4:01 am
And no, it’s not just Hansen’s work.
Why bring up James Hansen?
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 4:01 am
“ok, here: What do you see here?”
A timewaster.
Actually it’s germane.
People that believe in global warming have to practice a relativistic mind set. They need to look only at things that reinforce their paradigm. People are asked to describe what they see when looking at a Rorschach ink blot. It helps begin to reveal what their mindset is. How global warming believers, skeptics, realists, etc., look at events in climate, like the localized heat in Russia, reveals their mindset. You call it global warming, even though it was a very local event in a world that has been cooling since 1998.
So, apparently, you see global warming everywhere you look.
I called it “A timewaster.”.
That you interpret that to mean “I see global warming everywhere” is your spin on things and an apparent denial to see thing actual words that I wrote.
Might be due to the rotten CO2 that is not trapping heat as expected. Probably coming from all those deniers that breath out so much as they laugh at, criticize and confound the disruptors in their midst.
stevengoddard writes,
“Temperatures have dropped about fifty degrees over the last two weeks, because of all the heat being trapped by CO2 as we pass the tipping point.”
Either that, or because Russian winter’s on it’s way.
“Why isn’t Joe writing about Russia any more?”
The heat wave was unprecedented in historical records, according to Russian meteorologists. Are they saying the same about this cold?
The heat wave was unprecedented in historical records
But global warming isn’t happening. It was a very small, localized event. So it’s just weather.
Funny how we’re having more hot records broken than cold records.
Did Joe Romm talk about all time record cold and/or snow in north America the last two years?
Snicker.
Yes he did.
http://climateprogress.org/2010/02/08/climate-science-extreme-weather-moisture-precipitation-warmest-winter-satellite-record-deniers-jeff-masters/
Snicker snicker.
sunsettommy writes,
“Did Joe Romm talk about all time record cold and/or snow in north America the last two years?”
Yes, he researched and wrote about it at length, getting some thoughtful responses, pro and con:
http://climateprogress.org/2010/02/08/climate-science-extreme-weather-moisture-precipitation-warmest-winter-satellite-record-deniers-jeff-masters/
“Snicker.”
Like I said, grownups and children.
There has been no trend in winter snowfall. Dead flat. http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/chart_seasonal.php?ui_set=nhland&ui_season=1
Is there an equivalent Southern Hemisphere graph somewhere?
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 3:05 am
Is there an equivalent Southern Hemisphere graph somewhere?
OMG! Suddenly the Southern Hemisphere matters.
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 3:05 am
Is there an equivalent Southern Hemisphere graph somewhere?
You mean you don’t know? That is revealing. You act like a smug know-it-all when it comes to climate. But you don’t know where such a graph is?
Gneiss and Brendon,
you guys are quick with what’s going on at that political blog.
I think this is getting close to the bullseye.
Good work.
But it is apparent that you still fail to see the hypocrisy in all this:
“Heavy snow events–a contradiction to global warming theory?
Global warming skeptics regularly have a field day whenever a record snow storm pounds the U.S., claiming that such events are inconsistent with a globe that is warming. If the globe is warming, there should, on average, be fewer days when it snows, and thus fewer snow storms. However, it is possible that if climate change is simultaneously causing an increase in ratio of snowstorms with very heavy snow to storms with ordinary amounts of snow, we could actually see an increase in very heavy snowstorms in some portions of the world. There is evidence that this is happening for winter storms in the Northeast U.S.–the mighty Nor’easters like the “Snowmageddon” storm of February 5-6 and “Snowpocalypse” of December 19, 2009. Let’s take a look at the evidence. There are two requirements for a record snow storm:”
Tortured explanation on why warm air (which is commonly available in the eastern part of the country) can increase more snow fall.It is pure stupidity.The jackass fails to understand why it happened in the first place.
Hint: Unusually deep penetration of Arctic air,converging with warm moist air (a common climate trait in the region).The exceptional AO index that hits MINUS 5,during the late winter events.Feeding the cold air to fuel those snowstorms.
The same Joe Romm who went bananas over a weather event that has happened before in Moscow.
Record Snow and/or cold = Global Warming
Record Heat = Global Warming
I sneezed 5 times today=Global Warming
Anything is ALWAYS caused by global warming.That is the absurdity you are proscribing to.
Gosh they must have had 50 foot deep snow storms during the Dinosaur age because it was HOT!
There was NO snow during the little ice age,because it was not hot enough for snow to fall.
See what it leads to when you are up to your neck in gobbledygook?
Just 10 years ago a prominent AGW believer predicted that snow would be a thing of the past for England.Since then it has gotten more snow and cold.The cause was an expanded cold are penetration into the British Isles.
It always requires a lot of sustained cold air to be able to support massive snow storms.Without it,it would just turn to freezing rain and then rain most of the time.
“Record Snow and/or cold = Global Warming”
Record Cold != Global Warming
Record Snow, well you need to look at the specific cause. If it were snowing in places it never used to snow, then it’s obviously not warming. If it’s snowing more in places that usually get snow and are still cold enough to have snow, then this can support Global Warming because there is more water vapour in warmer air.
There has been no change in NH snow for as long as records have been kept. What part of this is difficult to understand?
http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/chart_seasonal.php?ui_set=nhland&ui_season=1
Brendon says:
October 28, 2010 at 3:24 am
Record Snow, well you need to look at the specific cause. If it were snowing in places it never used to snow, then it’s obviously not warming.
The snow line in the Northern Hemisphere is trending southerly. That’s not supposed to happen in global warming. In other words snow is covering a larger area heading toward the equator. The global warming hypothesis says the opposite is supposed to happen, i.e., the area covered by snow in the Northern Hemisphere in winter is supposed to be trending to a smaller area heading northerly.
So the global warming hypothesis is wrong again.
A hypothesis that does not have supporting evidence is wrong and should be discarded. That is real science.
“There has been no change in NH snow for as long as records have been kept. ”
Um, Steve, the graph jumps up and down a lot. There is plenty of change.
Do you have difficulty seeing the trend line which Rutgers provides in the graph?
No problem at all. Did you mean to say the long-term trend has not changed?
If so, how does it compare to IPCC forecasts of NH snow?
Is there an equivalent Southern Hemisphere graph somewhere?
Are you familiar with the geography of …. planet Earth?
Most of the land in the Southern Hemisphere is far away from the pole and does not accumulate snow at low elevations.
stevengoddard
Furthermore, it seems like with his know it all attitude he should already know about where any of these graphs are. He must be thinking that you are smarter than him since he wants you to tell him where they are.
Steve, I can’t believe I even have to say this; you’re either deliberately trying to avoid the question or just really dumb.
Antarctica is in the Southern Hemisphere and it snows there.
So I ask the question again. Is there an equivalent Southern Hemisphere graph somewhere?
Brendon,
I’m really starting to doubt your intelligence. Where in the Southern Hemisphere do you expect to see significant accumulations of snow at low elevations?
In South Africa? In Argentina? In Australia?
Antarctica is always covered with snow. Do you need a map for that? Land in the Southern Hemisphere is much further away from the pole.
Steve, I have little doubt about your intelligence or your integrity.
You may be starting to realise your mistake, but lets see if I can bring you up to speed a little faster.
You are showing “snow extent”. This might be a good measure in some parts of the world for measuring how much snow there is, but it fails to indicate how much volume of snow has fallen. If one place gets 10cm of snow or 3 meters of snow, it makes no difference to extent.
Now perhaps in the NH extent is a reasonable estimate of volume, I really don’t know.
I know the story is different in the SH, that’s why I specifically said “equivalent” when I asked “Is there an equivalent Southern Hemisphere graph somewhere?”.
Perhaps what I should have done earlier was to highlight the limitation of using extent to estimate volume.
So let me rephrase the question.
Do you have data for the amount of snow fallen (volume, not extent) and how does that compare against climate forecasts?
“It is the middle of October. Winter doesn’t start for two months. ”
So what’s your point Steve? That weather happens?
“It is the middle of October. Winter doesn’t start for two months. ”
So what’s your point Steve? That weather happens?
……………………………………………………………………………………………………
Everyone knows that weather happens. For example, look at the hot weather that happened in Russia last summer for a short time. It wasn’t global. It was just a very small area where it happened. It was just weather. Nothing to be alarmed about. It’s happened before.
If it’s a new record hot period, then that kind makes your statement that “It’s happened before.” look pretty stupid.
Can you hsow me where this new hot record has happened before?
Brendon, here’s a link to UHI rural vs. urban……..logarithmic. http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/03/04/spencers-uhi-vs-population-project-an-update/
More, that is the point, isn’t it? “…weather happens..” I don’t believe anyone here is asserting weather doesn’t change. More, it is inferred weather is suppose to change. At some point this winter, we’ll have the coldest winter in the history of some place. At the same time we’ll have the warmest winter in recorded history of some other place. So what? This has been going on since I can remember. Only no one ever attached a meaning to it. Suddenly, in the last 25 years, this means something bad. Yeh? Has it been shown? Nope. Even Miss Huricane is saying this is wrong thinking, now.
Yeh, I know, “but the trend…….!!!!” Here’s something for you to consider. Man’s history: Regardless if you are a creationist or not, there’s an abundance of evidence mankind has survived cataclysmic events much more severe than what is being proposed. Floods? We did that. Earthquakes and moving of the continents? Yeh, we kicked that ass, too. Ice ages? (Snicker) That’s pud. Heat waves?(hahaha) Well, Egypt isn’t called the cradle of civilization for nothing. That’s just hilarious. What is nature going to bring to us that we can’t handle? That we haven’t handled? Consider the technological advances we’ve made since the burning sands of the desert and tell me we will be overwhelmed? Only if the wheel-spokes of my chariot break and if my SPF tan lotion fails and we forget how to channel water.
It would be funny, except people actually believe we can be overwhelmed by nature and pass laws that overwhelm the populace. The industrial nations, for the most part, are fine. The 3rd world nations have suffered untold deaths because of the policies applied to mitigate this fictional pending cataclysmic catastrophe.
The weather events that nature brings to bare isn’t something to concern yourself about. The events Nature brings about is something that gathers my utmost attention.
“Brendon, here’s a link to UHI rural vs. urban……..logarithmic”
Actually that’s temp vs population but I get your point. Has it been published? I can’t find a scholarly reference to it.
My first concern is that it only uses one years worth of data.
“Floods? We did that.”
And we still lose hundreds of thousands of people to them now.
“Earthquakes and moving of the continents? Yeh, we kicked that ass, too.”
Those killed by Earthquakes would probably disagree with you, if they were alive that is.
Moving of continents – the few centimeters they move each year is hardly a threat now is it.
“Ice ages? (Snicker) That’s pud.
How many people were at the end of the previous interglacial and how many died because of the ice age?
To survive is one thing, to flourish and enjoy the comforts of modern life we have today is something quite different.
“Heat waves?(hahaha) Well, Egypt isn’t called the cradle of civilization for nothing.”
It’s no rainforest full of diverse species either.
sunsettommy writes,
“But it is apparent that you still fail to see the hypocrisy in all this…
… It always requires a lot of sustained cold air to be able to support massive snow storms.Without it,it would just turn to freezing rain and then rain most of the time.”
It’s not hypocrisy, it’s just not as simple as you believe. From a 1999 GRL article by Davis et al, “A climatology of snowfall-temperature relationships in Canada.”
“On a climatological basis, at any location, air temperature and snowfall can be correlated positively (higher temperatures increase atmospheric moisture and snowfall through the Clausius-Clapeyron relationship) or negatively (precipitation falls as rain instead of snow). Examination of 50 years of monthly snowfall water equivalent and mean temperature data indicates that the snowfall-temperature relationship is positive in the high latitudes and negative in southern Canada, along both coasts, and east of the Rockies. The “zero line” (the transition zone north of which warmer months receive more snowfall than colder months) migrates southward from autumn to winter so that by January most of eastern and northwestern Canada has a positive snowfall-temperature slope. The primary exception to a straightforward relationship between slope and latitude occurs east of the Rockies, where anomalous negative slopes extend far to the north. In this region, dry, adiabatically warmed air from downslope or circulation effects may reduce the number of snow events and modify the slope of the snowfall-temperature curve. Based on first principles and Canadian observations, we develop a function relating temperature to snowfall that attempts to account for the complex spatial and seasonal nature of the snowfall-temperature relationship.”
Reminds me of the time I spent at Ft. Wainwright. I recall warming all the way up to -40. Ahhh, the bad ole days.