New Zealand Vs. Sweden

As I have been predicting, New Zealand is sinking deeper into their dead end path of police state paranoia and isolation. They have painted themselves into a corner.

New Zealand appoints military to lead quarantine after COVID-19 cases – Axios

Meanwhile, Sweden continues on track for close to zero deaths before the end of summer. They did this without lockdowns, violations of human rights or closing their borders.

Reported Covid-19 deaths in Sweden | Swedish Covid-19 statistics

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21 Responses to New Zealand Vs. Sweden

  1. mwhite says:

    I remember a TV program about the 2003 SARs outbreak.
    In particular

    https://www.foxnews.com/story/who-leaky-pipes-fans-and-diarrhea-caused-sars-outbreak-at-hong-kong-apartments

    “The speed of the infection amazed health experts, who at the time believed the disease was spread mainly by person-to-person contact.”

    It may be that Public toilets are the biggest threat?

    • Tina B says:

      I just read a headline in the (UK) Spectator which said “Traces of coronavirus have been detected in sewage samples taken in Italy in December, two months before the first known infection in the country.”

  2. Jimmy Haigh says:

    I agree NZ has made the mistake of trying to bottle up the un-bottle uppable! Australia too.

    In the last week or so Sweden has seen a large increase in cases which may be the thing spreading or it may reflect greater testing. We’ll see if it results in higher deaths. Surely now everyone knows to keep the elderly and those with existing illnesses safe though?

    • Scissor says:

      Hopefully, we learn.

      I suspect that Sweden’s response will turn out to be better because there will not be subsequent waves and they will have remained open, so that don’t have to make the difficult decisions around reopening.

      It depends, however, on whether real lasting immunity is conferred and what happens in terms of development of effective treatments and vaccines. I would put my faith in the former and not bet on the appearance of a miraculous pill.

  3. leon tesla says:

    These are the latest figures as of 6/19/20 from
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

    Sweden 5,053 10.18 496.21
    Denmark 600 5.8 103.49
    Norway 244 5.31 45.91

    Since these three countries are in close proximity to one another and have similar standards of living and social support systems, it would appear that the more restrictive policies of Denmark and Norway are having much better mortality outcomes, at least at this point. The last column indicates deaths per million.

    • tonyheller says:

      Sweden has about 90,000 deaths per year. This year will be close to average. But thanks for parroting the propaganda, Leon.

    • dearieme says:

      “at least at this point”: that’s a vital qualification. It might all look pretty different in (say) five years time. Meantime the advantage of deferring deaths is like the advantage of deferring paying tax: something might turn up. Nobody knows; nobody can know.

      My own guess is that so many people have learned to distrust governments and scientific “experts” that they now automatically assume that COVID-19 is just another scam like catastrophic anthropogenic global warming.

    • Windsong says:

      leon, this post by statistician William Briggs is a month old now, but the basic rates of infection, cases and death probably have not changed much. More restrictive did not always result in lower rates. New York and New Jersey had harsh restrictions in place, and still have the worst death rates in the country. (Granted, their policies in regard to nursing homes did not help.) US states that never locked down have rates that look excellent in comparison.
      https://wmbriggs.com/post/30884/

    • Jimmy Haigh says:

      Norway and Denmark are two of the countries which have come out best from this and they compare favourably with all other Western countries. Sweden is sitting in the middle of the pack regarding death rate per million of all of the developed world.

    • Mark A Luhman says:

      Check back in two years and look at overall death rates for the year, my guess we won’t see much of a bump this year across the world and if we do next year will be lower. I been in four pandemics and the first two were worse than this one, my second pandemic my generation had Woodstock in the middle of it. During that time I think I might have read two articles about it and I read the paper every day back then from front to back, right before I went on my paper route.

    • OldCynic says:

      Leon, I have no way of checking whether or not those figures are actually correct. Even if they are, they are misleading.

      That is because Sweden will not suffer the same number of deaths ASSOCIATED with COVID-19 that the “lockdown” countries will suffer. I’m thinking of deaths like suicide caused by depression from a lost job. (Let’s ignore the other social costs from lockdowns – increased domestic violence etc)

      The economic costs of lockdowns will show up in future years when the kids of today have to pay back the debts incurred and the government has reduced money for social programs – including pensions and unemployment benefits.

      You may argue that the sorts of deaths not directly attributable to COVID-19 cannot be directly identified. True enough. In the same way it is not possible to be sure how many died OF COVID-19 and how many just died WITH COVID-19, but predominantly of other causes.

      I suggest that the only sensible measurement of the impact on mortality is to wait six months then look at the total number of deaths for Jan-Jun this year, and compare it with that of previous years ie identify the extra (or “excess”) deaths. Then you can see what was a plausible number of deaths that can be identified as “COVID-19 related”

      And then, if you are really interested, look at how much each country has spent on “containment”, and look at the increase in its unemployment rate. There are other metrics that will doubtless occur to you, as you go along.

      I believe you will find that Sweden comes out the analysis looking much better than any “lockdown” country, on any metric you care to choose

  4. KevinPaul says:

    50% or more of people who had a particular common cold strain in the past few years are probably immune already to the not-so-novel covid19.

    Examining old test samples shows in 50% of people T-cells already primed to recognise and deal to cells infected with CV-19. T-cells are what clear an infection, they are more important than antibodies which only recognise an invader but can’t fight it. Vaccines produce antibodies not T or B white blood cells, it is these cells that are compromised in the elderly and those with poor diets (high fructose, oil, sodium)

    It’s a scam, just like CAGW, a brainwashing program of fear and control.

    https://www.sciencealert.com/surprise-finding-suggests-some-people-are-already-primed-to-fight-the-coronavirus

  5. Maggy Wassilieff says:

    NZ Team 5 Million did what Captain Jacinda Ardern asked of us: she has failed to deliver
    her side of the bargain and safeguard the gains we made in isolating the virus.

    We are effectively back to square one, where we were in February 2020, with an ill-prepared Government and lax border and quarantine procedures.

    We’ve had a lovely mild autumn, and a couple of months in lockdown when the sun was shining wasn’t a major inconvenience for many of us retired folk and essential workers.

    Now winter has arrived…
    I can’t see that we will be willing to go back to lockdown, standing in queues outside supermarkets while a southerly storm rips through the country.

    • Janet Marshall says:

      I live in NZ and agree with you. The way the government is flinging endless money around is frightening enough. That, along with the PMs quest for halos is scary. Poor old NZ is getting strangled into submission and most of the people seem to applaud. Sigh

  6. Greg in NZ says:

    PM Ardern, or “It’s-not-my-fault-Cindy” as she has become known as, has had Deputy Chief of Defence, Air Commodore Digby Webb, in charge of ‘security’ for the past 4 weeks (even though she only announced it 2 days ago). As Red Radio NZ headlined:

    “Border Botch-Up, Covid Shambles, Catalogue of Cock-Ups”. Problem, Reaction, Solution – bring in the military!

    Then yesterday a police officer was shot and killed, and his partner seriously wounded, in Auckland (the major city). Police will now “continue to be armed” until further notice. Easy, eh?

    https://www.rnz.co.nz

  7. Robert Gipson says:

    The only pandemic afoot is that of cognitive dissonance. A significant portion of the public fervently (religiously) refuses to believe that their government would lie to them. They swallowed, sans hesitation, the kool-aid of “oil shortages,” the kool-aid of “Saddam’s WMD’s,” and the kool-aid that “Osama was buried at sea to avoid offending Muslims.”

    This pandemic is at once fascinating and chilling.

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/451485931378247058/

    Speaking as one germophobic since taking advanced microbiology in the 1970’s, I’m not the slightest bit concerned about *any* of the COVID bunk force-fed to us 24/7 by the government-controlled media. I remain, however, a germophobe of *real* (not contrived) biohazards such as hepatitis C. With respect thereto, fyi, toilet seats are not the most virus-contaminated fomites. The winner in that illustrious category (look it up), based on numerous studies, is: service station gasoline pump handles. For which I always use two paper towels.

  8. The Big Think says:

    I was on board with the ‘flatten the curve’ theory, which I now realise was not necessary. However, most of the population were on board because we were frightened, but also, we didn’t realise how strict it would be. It backfired all over, because people were forced out of their homes to queue for food more often due to purchase limits. My elderly relative was shopping as usual because the PM told us not to stock up. Then the PM decided the ‘elimination’ or ‘eradication’ was the aim. Well, no way was I on board with that because it was obvious that we could not shut up the country forever. The people were lied to and tricked. We have election this September. Guess the wage subsidy stops – yes, that’s right. September. Another thing, our unemployment stats aren’t due out until August. People really have no idea how bad it is going to be. Public sector workers are still ‘working from home’ on full pay. I bet that stops after the election too.

  9. Per Blomquist says:

    Hi I am swedish
    Sweden panicked at the beginning of the virus outbreak on the availablity of ICU beds. The response was to make a plan for elderly people so they did not have to go to hospital but could be treated with morphin, which of course killed them already in the nursing home. Other was to ban all gatherings of 500 people or more, later 50 was allowed. No more advice exept social distancing and ban to visit old relatives in nursing homes. Now we see the result 5000 dead compared to a few hundred in Norway and Finland.
    I live in Thailand, here very different. Everybody have facemask, built in to culture, and fast closure of airports and borders. They have done extensive screening, take temperature before entering e g warehouse so I have been screened many times. Screening followed by testing and isolation of positive cases plus tracing. Now we have about 3000 cases and 58 dead. When it started they were lucky the did not have to lock down schools because have summer holidays anyway.. But big arenas and events were cancelled now waiting for opening restaurants. Tourist beaches opened already. Now I am a bit scared of a second outbreak but they seems to know whet they are doing.

  10. Morgan in Sweden says:

    The recent increase in cases of Covid-19 in Sweden is due to a much higher amount of testings being done. Intensive care patients (and other patients in hospital due to Covid-19) are getting fewer and fewer. The peak was in late April.

  11. alloytoo says:

    The New Zealand government has no plan except keep the borders closed.

    Everything this government does is a SNAFU.

    Team of 5 million is about to become a ghetto of 5 million as unemployment hits hard next month and many companies shed jobs.

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