Actual scientists (as opposed to the shameless propagandists who currently work at NASA) know that Greenland was much warmer in the past.
Scientists have long known this for a very long time.
Except for a short spike from 1990 to 2010, temperatures in southwest Greenland have been generally declining since that article was written – and are now just as cool as they were in the 19th century.
Meanwhile, the fraudsters working for NASA continue to spread propaganda ahead of Paris.
The glacier NASA is lying about in their most recent propaganda is growing, not “coming undone.”
NASA has degenerated into a mindless propaganda machine for the White House, who simply make “facts” up to serve the liar-in-chief’s political agenda.
Looks like Jorgen Peder Steffensen doen’st want another grant
“doen’st” Hmmm interesting what your fingers do when you make them go faster than normal trying to be the first poster.
Pretty much everywhere on earth was much warmer at some time or other in the past, Steven. That says nothing about the current warming. In virtually all those earlier regional and global warmings, we know what the cause or causes were, and we know that none of those causes is causing the current warming. We know that the only cause or set of causes that explains all the data we have observed over the last 100+ years is AGW. You have yet to cast any science-based doubt on that theory.
[SG : NASA is lying about Greenland, and you want to just ignore it and assume they are telling truth generally.]
OK Martin, Font of all knowledge. What caused the previous warmer periods?
Which one?
You choose.
I’ve done this many times before, wiz, and I have no wish to repeat it for you. Choose a previous global warming you are interested in, and I will do my best to do your homework for you. Otherwise, you are on your own.
OK lets pick the MWP there should be lots of research on that.
BTW YOU are professing knowledge that I have not been able to find so I am asking for your help, not for you to do my research for me
MWP: http://www.skepticalscience.com/medieval-warm-period.htm
You didn’t look very hard. It took me all of 30 seconds: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16892-natural-mechanism-for-medieval-warming-discovered/
OK Martin we admit there was no MWP. Now tell us what caused the Roman Warming Period.
MWP: Denying its existence does not make it go away…..where have I heard that before
Nobody denies the existence of the MWP, Morgan and wiz, and no one has to admit it didn’t happen. (a) it wasn’t global; different regions warmed at different times during the MWP, and (b) the causes are the ones listed: http://www.skepticalscience.com/medieval-warm-period.htm https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16892-natural-mechanism-for-medieval-warming-discovered/
The Roman period claims have been discredited.
YOU and your fellow alarmista have to DENY the GLOBAL MWP, and RWP and the first 3/4 of the Holocene, all of which were WARMER than present.
And you have to INVENT CRAP to cover your DENIAL.
That is what FRAUDSTERS do.
SkS is right in the lead of that FRAUD.. you know that, but its all you have.
Propaganda, NON-science.
Again, that video from REAL SCIENTISTS.. because I know that REAL science is something you have to DENY.
Your are a DENIER of REAL science. A worthless little Gore bot.
And PLENTY of PROOF that RWP was GLOBAL
http://www.co2science.org/subject/r/subject_r.php
And plenty of proof that the MWP was global too: http://www.hyzercreek.com/MWP-LIA.html
Burt Martin, everybody knows that El Nino is caused by man, it couldnt be nautural
Here’s the link for you. https://vimeo.com/14366077
TRY to get some REAL science past that ignorant, brain-washed, 2 year old mind of yours.
You haven’t shown any evidence that NASA is lying about Greenland. If you have any such evidence, please post it because I and a lot of climate scientists would like to see it. In fact, you haven’t even posted any evidence that NASA is wrong about Greenland.
[SG: You are exposing yourself as a fraud]
Now you are a climate scientist?
“I and a lot of climate scientists…”
If you’re a climate scientist then i’m a Martian.
You know NOTHING about climate science, and I suspect, nothing about any other variety of science either.
You have nothing but abuse.
Troll off.
Let’s look at Martin Smith shall we…
Martin is a software engineer with ZERO understand of anything to do with climate science.
He also markets himself as a technical writer.. one can only imagine how un-technical those rants would be !!
He also thinks the cartoonist site , SkS, actually present something resembling science.. yes, seriously !!!
He frequents a site run by a Peter Sinclair aka Greenman, who fancies himself as a low-end videographer making propaganda mis-information videos about anyone who questions the AGW meme. Peter was apparently “trained” ie brain-washed, by Al Gore.
here is a quote from Martin on that “climatecrock’ site.
https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/troll_closet_scr.jpg
AndyG55 says: “Let’s look at Martin Smith shall we…
Martin is a software engineer”
[Citation required[]
Yo Cat..
If you go to this link (don’t read too much.. its nauseous stuff)
http://climatecrocks.com/2014/02/03/do-trolls-make-us-dumber/comment-page-1/
Search down for Martin Smith, and click on his name.. to take you to his faceplant page.
Cheers
One doesn’t need any other evidence other than the fact that the catastrophic sea rise they have said would already be happening HASN’T. But there is plenty of other evidence. All one has to do is pay attention to the SSTs and ASTs to know it COULDN’T be happening unless there was geothermal activity causing it. IOW it has remained far too cold to happen. They couldn’t even grow any of their own fodder for their sheep in the extreme south this summer as they normally do. Had to import it.
Heck they used to grow grain. Now they even have to import hay from Denmark!
Compare that to the Vikings:
Not only could the vikings support cows, sheep and goats during the short summer, but they had to gather all the fodder and grain to feed that livestock (and themselves) during the long winter. They had no imported bales of hay from Denmark that modern farmers have. So how many cows, and how many sheep and goats, do you suppose those simple farmers, with nothing but hand-held tools, could raise? Make a guess. Then read this paper:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk2/ftp04/mq22551.pdf
H/T to Caleb
“In virtually all those earlier regional and global warmings, we know what the cause or causes were”.
That’s 100% BS. If it were true the climate model developers would be able to explain why the models run hot. Maybe Kevin Trenberth can explain it:
“The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate.”
The global climate models don’t run hot, but that has nothing to do with your premise about earlier warmings. In fact, we can explain all the previous warmings without AGW, but the only way to explain the current warming is AGW.
I will use your evidence gathering methodology in answering this one:
WRONG!
You are lying
“In fact, we can explain all the previous warmings without AGW,”
No, you can’t. They currently can’t be explained, period. Nor can you explain the recent warming and current hiatus WITH human inputs.
What a crock of crap. Every sentence an out right bold faced lie!
MS not only lies he lies about well known PROVABLE FACTS.
https://informativestats.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/hayden_ipcc_arrow.jpg
“The global climate models don’t run hot”
You really are a complete dipstick if you think anybody is going to believe that.
Marty, since you know everything, help us poor ignorant masses out.
1- List all climate forcings, order them from most to least effective, and then quantify them.
2- Please provide even one peer reviewed paper that refutes natural variability as the cause of recent, or any, global climate changes.
There is nothing unusual or unprecedented about our climate, or how we got here. For 4,500,000,000 years climates have always changed, naturally. This means there has been a set precedent, and the burden of proof falls on natural climate change deniers like yourself.
Here are the answers to both questions, gator: https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/
Nice dodge Martin … just answer the question(s) and show us all that u are indeed a true smarty pants and not just some paid shill with no scientific skill or knowledge. Personally I smell a twit with a Fine Arts / FART degree …. likely political science which is not a science at all performing like a trained seal on Tony’s blog as per his pre Paris marching orders.
Martin makes me miss good old Reggie and his blow torch 😉
God you are dumb. Please show where in your link that you can….
1- List all climate forcings, order them from most to least effective, and then quantify them.
2- Please provide even one peer reviewed paper that refutes natural variability as the cause of recent, or any, global climate changes.
There is nothing unusual or unprecedented about our climate, or how we got here. For 4,500,000,000 years climates have always changed, naturally. This means there has been a set precedent, and the burden of proof falls on natural climate change deniers like yourself.
Your link answers none of these questions. It is precious that you believe they do. 😆
Those are the answers, Stewart. Neither question can be answered with a simple answer, obviously. In fact, the current state of climate science contains the answers to both questions: https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/
Bullshit. Show me where in your link that you can…
1- List all climate forcings, order them from most to least effective, and then quantify them.
2- Please provide even one peer reviewed paper that refutes natural variability as the cause of recent, or any, global climate changes.
There is nothing unusual or unprecedented about our climate, or how we got here. For 4,500,000,000 years climates have always changed, naturally. This means there has been a set precedent, and the burden of proof falls on natural climate change deniers like yourself.
Put your proof where your fat stupid mouth is.
The IPCC is not and never was tasked with finding and list all climate forcings.
The IPCC mandate:
So it never was about understanding the climate. It was really about ‘options for mitigation and adaptation. ‘ and this is the change wanted by the Globalists like the UN, the World Bank, and the WTO.
The IPCC’s ROLE
So there it is again. ONLY “human-induced climate change” is of interest and that is why you see very little work done on natural climate change.
You really are an ignorant brainwashed little Troll with nothing of use to say.
Let’s look at Martin Smith shall we…
Martin is a software engineer with ZERO understand of anything to do with climate science.
He also markets himself as a technical writer.. one can only imagine how un-technical those rants would be !!
He also thinks the cartoonist site , SkS, actually present something resembling science.. seriously !!!
He frequents a site run by a Peter Sinclair aka Greenman, who fancies himself as a low-end videographer making propaganda mis-information videos about anyone who questions the AGW meme. Peter was apparently “trained” ie brain-washed, by Al Gore.
here is a quote from Martin on that “climatecrock’ site.
“We need a database of current states of climate arguments. Skeptical Science is basically that database, but we need a canonical name for each argument and a summary of the current state of the argument, plus the list of papers and datasets that are used to establish the current state of the argument, and finally, the list of papers that are refuted by the current state of the argument.
Then the rule for moderation can be: If your post argues against the current state of some climate argument, your argument most not be one that has been refuted.
The whack-a-mole strategy is what must be prevented from obscuring the current state of climate science.”
So Martin the Gorebot, makes himself that whack-mole.
He has zero knowledge or understanding climate, and is just a lonely sad little man seeking attention by typing moronic comments.
https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/troll_closet_scr.jpg
“Martin is a software engineer…”
Only if you consider sitting in his mummy’s bedroom and dragging and dropping a collection of pre-built objects, setting a few properties and typing in a few text headings constitutes software engineering.
If he really had a job, he wouldn’t be able to spend all his time waiting for Steve to make another blog post so he could continue his stalking campaign.
Again the refusal to answer questions.. because you DON’T KNOW the answers.
By the time stamps, he is posting from wherever he works..
I wonder if his employer knows.. perhaps should email them.
https://plus.google.com/110936642099821448073/posts
The first 3/4 or so of the Holocene was warmer than now by at least a few degrees.
We are actually at the cold point in the current interglacial. The MWP, and RWP were also warmer than now and there is very good evidence that they were both a global in nature.
The REAL FACTS are something you just refuse to admit to, because you know that they totally destroy the AGW LIES.
Nothing you have posted counters those REAL FACTS.
Martin, you are a LIAR and base-level IGNORANT worm of a troll and your idiocy is proving yet again that the AGW cultists have absolutely nothing to back up their fairy tale.
Pretty much everywhere on earth was much warmer at some time or other in the recent past.
Thank you for the confirmation.. brainless one. !!
In fact, everywhere was warmer trough most of the MWP , RWP and the first 3/4 of the Holocene.
There ABSOLUTELY NOTHING UNTOWARD about the current small amount of warming out of the COLDEST period in the whole of the last 10,000 years.
If you REALLY want to got back to the LIA.. then move to Siberia .. I dare you.
And BTW where are the climate refugees?
There was one.. oh wait..
no, he wasn’t !!
It is important to know past temperatures as all tipping points would have been trigged in earlier warming periods.
It’s also important to know past CO2 levels because the tipping point would have been triggered if there were such a thing.
I get the impression that MS doesn’t actually believe in AGW. You can tell from his repetitive replies ect. He has been given instructions (and paid highly) to come here and simply parrot the AGW mantra that’s what he is paid to do, he has to do it ect..
He’s being paid to prove that Tony is a fraud. That’s why he keeps saying those very words. He hasn’t convinced one single person.
Very true Morgan
Otherwise he would have better arguments or would have crawled back in his hole.
Once his Puppet Master realize all he is doing is showing Tony has solid information and we can back him up, MS will be recalled and sent to harass someone else or hopefully FIRED since he is so incompetent.
Remember what happened to Hitler’s brown shirts when they were no longer needed.
Obama’s Homeland Security Classified US Veterans as Potential Terrorist Threat.
I was told by a retired Secret Service person that his buddies warned him he and any one retired from the CIA, FBI as well as the Secret Service and military are ALL on the Watch list.
Shades of the Nazis HMmmm?
“He’s being paid to prove that Tony is a fraud”
Monumental FAILURE so far.. and I doubt anyone would bother or even need to pay this shill Gore-bot.
The AGW guys ought to pay him not to post, he doing so much harm to their meme with his ignorance and stupidity.
So brain-washed.. AGW.. Sharia,…. the perfect acolyte.
Next comes the suicide vest.
Now, Now Andy, be nice you are going to hurt the feelings of the widdle troll commenting from Mommy’s basement.
http://i.imgur.com/VqPJBS4.png
Very low temperatures in the lower stratosphere over the northern polar circle.
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/stratosphere/temperature/70mb9065.png
November 23 will be the polar vortex over Europe.
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/stratosphere/strat_a_f/gif_files/gfs_z100_nh_f120.png
And those lower temperatures are heading this way down into the heartland of the US soon.
https://youtu.be/gxhknGARGt4
64 deg. F here in central Indiana right now. High tomorrow forecast to be 33 deg. Blizzard warning out in central Kansas right along I-70.
About this time five years ago I had delivered to the Inteva plant in North KC, MO. Blizzard along I-70 across the eastern 2/3 of the state. I drove all night on I-70 heading home and didn’t see a single snow plow until I got to St. Louis.
Road surface completely covered with 6″ to 8″ of snow and still coming down heavy. Put the visors down and turned the defrost all the way up but still had to use my back scratcher to reach out of my side window and flip the drivers side windshield wiper in order to knock the ice ball that would get bigger than a baseball off the end of wiper so it would again make contact with the glass. Hardly any traffic so no furrows to follow. Had to use the rumble strips to keep it on the road and it would have been over for the night had I gone off. You can still feel those strips with those big tires in snow that deep. No stopping because the shoulder was invisible and going off on a ramp was asking to get stuck. Took me 14 hours to make what normally was an 8 hour and 45 minute drive. Some people would call doing such a thing foolish. I call it truckin.
RAH,
Been there done that but it was from Boston to Rochester NY in a 1976 Olds Cutlass. Thank goodness for the anti-spin differential and 100# of sand in the trunk. I think the snow coming at you and the whiteout is the worse part. It hypnotizes you.
As you say, you do not dare pull over for fear of getting stuck or in my case rear-ended.
Gail
I owned a 1977 Cutlass Supreme Broughm when I went into the Army. Great car!
RAH,
I had the Coupe, with swivel bucket seats and a five speed. It was my first BRAND SPANKING NEW car and I really loved it. Got 28 to 32 MPG with an 8 cylinder too.
I bought mine used when it was less than two years old and still in like new condition. It was a two door but had the split bench seat so was considered a sedan. In fact this one is exactly like it on the outside:
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?ei=UTF-8&type=avastbcl&hspart=avast&hsimp=yhs-001&p=1977+Cutlass+Supreme+Broughm
3 speed turbo automatic with the 406 cu. in engine. She was a runner.
The Dunlap performance tires I had put on it were just outstanding for grip,control, and ride but only lasted for two years. But then it wasn’t like I wasn’t putting the car through it’s paces either. An excellent road car.
Sorry the pic is the red one in the line up that has a white half vinyl top that matches what I had exactly.
Mine was silver with Maroon interior.
NOAA acknowledges they do not know what causes Dansgaard-Oeschger oscillations.
http://www.sott.net/image/s9/188220/large/sole_et_al_2007_fig_11.jpg
(Degrees C on the left derived from O18)
The exit from the Little Ice Age was abrupt, occurring in a decade around 1850 when the climate shifted to present day warmth.
…the age-depth profile predicts an age of 1845 A.D. Results indicate the termination of the LIA was abrupt with a major climatic shift to warmer temperatures around 1845 A.D. and continuing to present day. Prediction limits (error bars) calculated for the profile ages are ±10 years (90% confidence level). Thus a conservative estimate for the time taken to complete the LIA climatic shift to present-day climate is about 10 years….
Chronological refinement of an ice core record at Upper Fremont Glacier in south central North America
Temperature and precipitation history of the Arctic
Miller et al
Institute of Arctic and Alpine Research and Department of Geological Sciences, University of Colorado, USA et al
…. Solar energy reached a summer maximum (9% higher than at present) ~11 ka ago and has been decreasing since then, primarily in response to the precession of the equinoxes. The extra energy elevated early Holocene summer temperatures throughout the Arctic 1-3°C above 20th century averages, enough to completely melt many small glaciers throughout the Arctic, although the Greenland Ice Sheet was only slightly smaller than at present. Early Holocene summer sea ice limits were substantially smaller than their 20th century average, and the flow of Atlantic water into the Arctic Ocean was substantially greater. As summer solar energy decreased in the second half of the Holocene, glaciers re-established or advanced, sea ice expanded…
At paper looking at glaciers in Norway.
A new approach for reconstructing glacier variability based on lake sediments recording input from more than one glacier
January 2012
Kristian Vasskoga Øyvind Paaschec, Atle Nesjea, John F. Boyled, H.J.B. Birks
…. A multi-proxy numerical analysis demonstrates that it is possible to distinguish a glacier component in the ~ 8000-yr-long record, based on distinct changes in grain size, geochemistry, and magnetic composition…. This signal is …independently tested through a mineral magnetic provenance analysis of catchment samples. Minimum glacier input is indicated between 6700–5700 cal yr BP, probably reflecting a situation when most glaciers in the catchment had melted away, whereas the highest glacier activity [growth] is observed around 600 and 200 cal yr BP. During the local Neoglacial interval (~ 4200 cal yr BP until present), five individual periods of significantly reduced glacier extent are identified at ~ 3400, 3000–2700, 2100–2000, 1700–1500, and ~ 900 cal yr BP….
Stable temperatures are a Chemi-head’s delusion.
http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/graphs/lappi/Five_Myr_Climate_Change_Rev.jpg
As far as Mikey Manns idiotic science fiction writing in 2009:
Medieval Warm Period found in 120 proxies.
Contains links to various peer-reviewed papers and save me the effort of linking individually.
Here is another paper that kicks Mikey’s butt.
November 2013: Pacific Ocean Heat Content During the Past 10,000 Years
Martin Smith is RULED by a tree!
Three Trees for the Bankster-kings under the crimson sky,
Seven for the Corporate-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the UN Lord on his New York throne
In the Land of Global Governance where Serfdom lies.
One Tree to rule them all, One Tree to find them,
One Tree to bring them all and into slavery bind them
In the Land of Global Governance where Serfdom lies.
https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/mann_explains_treemometer.jpg
Ha! Gail, you are in rare form today! 🙂
Thanks Jason,
I really hate liars. But I should leave the poetry to Hubby. He has a real gift. I just wish I had a collection of his poetry. (One of his ex-co-workers in Boston did.)
Here’s a tree I cut down myself to “prove” global cooling of the 1970’s. Who knew I had my own treemometer?
http://hyzercreek.com/treering.htm
What year did you cut it? Sure looks like Global Cooling occurred 10 year before that.
https://media2.stickersmalin.com/produit/100/stickers-devil-smile-R1-143760-2.png
Or was it drought…
2013. I think it picks up the hiatus pretty well too.
So that’s what Grima Wormtongue looks like?
You’re right. You got that in while I was typing. Definitely Wormtongue.
Is that a picture of Sauron, or Saruman?
Funny. I was thinking along the lines that you were but I couldn’t remember Saruman’s name then while I was trying to remember I thought of Wormtongue.
only -47 at the summit…
http://www.summitcamp.org/status/webcam/
The US National Weather Service windchill chart only goes to a calm temp of -45 deg F and so doesn’t even go up to what the wind chill would be at summit right now. But frostbite times for exposed skin would be less than 5 minutes. Ideal for a round of golf on their course for Martin and his masters at Skeptical Science.
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/winter/windchill.shtml
this post first let me feel some doubt about AGW
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/09/hockey-stick-observed-in-noaa-ice-core-data/
note how he/she mentions Greenland and that in the old days witched were blamed for the cold weather….
now it is all of us {all people} blamed for the warmer weather…..
never mind the fact that already the world has started to cool again.
https://i0.wp.com/oi62.tinypic.com/33kd6k2.jpg
I would not be surprised that poor ol MS is already having doubts about AGW after being here for some time hahahaha
Brilliant. When glacier backs, it melts. When glacier advances, it thins, and melts, that is. Any change in climate change is global warming is agw is cagw.
Reblogged this on Climate Collections.