Ocean Stupidification

National Geographic say they have been monitoring ocean pH levels for the past 300 million years, and that the pH was a steady 8.2 for 299,999,800 years – until a little before you bought your SUV. Now they say the ocean is an “acid” 8.1 – and it is your fault. Corals are going to dissolve.

Ocean Acidification | National Geographic

Atmospheric CO2 is close to the lowest level it has been in the last 300 million years. Corals evolved in the Cambrian Era – with CO2 levels fifteen times higher than now. Obviously they aren’t going to dissolve.

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In the real world, seawater ranges from about an alkaline 7.7 to an alkaline 8.2.

Wayback Machine

National Geographic has no clue what they are talking about, and are simply making nonsensical gibberish up. But that is standard operating procedure for the left.

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81 Responses to Ocean Stupidification

  1. Colorado Wellington says:

    Acidifying water from 8.2 to 8.1 pH is like melting ice from -21.4°F to -19.2°F.

    • Robertv says:

      Without the gas of life CO2 producing cars this song would never have been possible. Can you imagine somebody writing a song about an electric car?

      Queen (Roger Taylor) I’m In Love With My Car
      https://youtu.be/zcXAelymbTI

    • Phil. says:

      No, acidifying water from 8.2 to 8.1 is adding 25% more hydrogen ions, in a lab you would do that by adding an acid (that’s why it’s termed acidification). In a lab experiment the instructions might be ‘adjust the pH of the solution to 8.1 by adding dilute hydrochloric acid’.

      • rah says:

        Bull Shit! It’s termed “acidification” as a scare tactic. The result is decreased alkalinity, not “acidification”. It’s either base, neutral, or acidic, end of story.

        • Phil. says:

          No it is not, it’s called acidification in chemistry for the reasons I stated. The result is not decreased ‘alkalinity’ because in seawater alkalinity refers to the total of the proton acceptors in the solution and is constant even when the pH is changed, it is not synonymous with ‘basicity’. You could refer to the change as ‘decreased basicity’ but no chemist does because the changed is caused by ‘adding an acid’ not ‘removing a base’. Acid, neutral or base are descriptions of the state, whereas ‘acidification’ refers to the direction of a change of the state.

          • Gator says:

            Phail, if the oceans were actually becoming acidic, they would be “acidifying”. But they are not, it would take a 2000% change just to become neutral. Honest chemists would say that the pH level is increasing, and that is all they would say.

          • rah says:

            Yea, and profitication is the term used when the amount of red is decreased.

          • Phil. says:

            Honest chemists would say that the pH level is increasing, and that is all they would say.

            No, they might say that the pH is decreasing as a result of acidification by CO2 though.

          • Gator says:

            Phail, something must be on the path to actually becoming acidic to actually be acidifying. Our oceans will never be acidic from the introduction of CO2. Take your Newspeak lesson to ignorant leftists, who drool over the stupid.

            Now care to provide your daily criticisms you have made against the purveyors of CAGW? Or will you just keep trolling here?

          • Phil. says:

            Phail, something must be on the path to actually becoming acidic to actually be acidifying. Our oceans will never be acidic from the introduction of CO2.

            No, it refers to to the reduction of pH by the addition of an acid regardless of the ultimate result.
            Just like acidosis refers to a build up of acid in body tissues. Normal blood pH is 7.4, acidosis is when blood pH is 7.35 or lower, at body temperature neutral pH is ~6.8, you’d be dead long before blood pH got anywhere near being acid!
            Just because you want to use long established scientific terminology for propaganda purposes doesn’t make you right.

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            “Just like acidosis refers to a build up of acid in body tissues.”

            Yeah, and “liquefaction” refers to the build up of heat from increasing temperature from -21.4°F to -19.2°F which according to alarmists causes HO2 ice to liquefy.

            There is silly and there is stubborn. And then there is stubborn and silly, Phil.

          • Gator says:

            Phail is fluent in Newspeak, and just does not understand those of us who are not.

          • Phil. says:

            Yeah, and “liquefaction” refers to the build up of heat from increasing temperature from -21.4°F to -19.2°F which according to alarmists causes HO2 ice to liquefy.

            There is silly and there is stubborn. And then there is stubborn and silly, Phil.

            No one who knows what they’re talking about makes such a claim wrt phase change of a solid like ice, more commonly applied to sols such as soil during earthquakes.
            The phase change from solid to liquid water is termed ‘melting’, I’m not aware of anyone who claims this happens at -20ºF, especially if they understand the phase diagram of water.

          • spike55 says:

            But sea water will NEVER become acidic, or even close to acidic.

            It is just a “scare word” used for propaganda purposes.

            YOU know that. So stop LYING !!

            The assumed change from 8.2 to 8.1 pH could NEVR have been measured for whole of ocean.

            pH varies too much from place to place, from day to day, from day to night, from season to season, from year to year to say there have been any change whatsoever.

            Its all one big LIE, that gullible phailures like phlip buy into.

          • spike55 says:

            “they might say that the pH is decreasing as a result of acidification by CO2 though.”

            And they would be total morons.

            Millions of years of rivers at pH values most often well below 7 have FAILED to move the ocean pH one little bit.

            And these morons think that a minor change in atmospheric CO2 will?

            And YOU buy into the idiocy ?

            Get a brain, phlop. !!

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            “I’m not aware of anyone who claims this happens at -20ºF …”

            Alarmists claim it all the time. Are you so unaware or do you just pretend?

          • spike55 says:

            NOT acidifying

          • Phil. says:

            “I’m not aware of anyone who claims this happens at -20ºF …”

            Alarmists claim it all the time. Are you so unaware or do you just pretend?

            Can you link to such a claim?

          • Deborah Guebert says:

            Thanks for the scientific clarity of your explanation. You obviously know what you are talking about. For some reason, the use of a specific scientific term (acidification) seems to have driven people unfamiliar with the accepted meaning of this term, to insist on their own intuitive understanding instead. Interesting rejection of science for people apparently championing the truth over “fake news”.

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            Deborah,

            Do you believe that ocean water is becoming more “acidic” by a change from 8.2 to 8.1 pH?

            And do you think that carbonic acid in sea water at 8.1 pH is dissolving the calcium carbonate shells of ocean organisms?

          • Gator says:

            I always like to refer to my 1965 Webster’s Dictionary when dealing with Newspeakers.

            Acidification: 1- the act or process of acidifying.

            Acidifying: 1- >i>To make acid or convert into an acid.

            Of course kids today have no idea what they are talking about, so much disinformation in their Orwellian digital world, so its up to us educated older folks to teach them how to speak their own first language correctly.

            You are welcome Debbie.

          • rah says:

            Gator
            Phil and his ilk can say what they want about the terminology, but they won’t sway anyone. The term “Acidification” is hyperbolic BS intended to mislead and alarm when applied to issues of ocean pH reported to the public.

            For eons fresh water run off from the fields, mountains, jungles and their varied facies carrying the dissolved minerals, plant matter, and such have made their way to the oceans there by periodically changing the local pH at the estuaries by a significant factor at times relatively quickly and yet the local marine flora and fauna and corals continued to thrive.

          • Gator says:

            climate scientists Ken Caldeira and Michael Wickett, who coined the term “ocean acidification.” Caldeira is a climate modeller. In 1999 he did some work for the Department of Energy who wanted to know what the environmental consequences would be of capturing CO2 from smokestacks and injecting it deep into the sea.

            Nobody was stupid enough to call it “acidification” until a couple of grantologists recently made it all up. And just like lemmings, the uneducated masses repeated the holey mantra, once again making useful idiots of themselves.

        • Disillusioned says:

          Dr. Phil. must have a PhD in Stupidification.

          • Phil. says:

            No I have a PhD in Physical Chemistry and unlike most here I know what I’m talking about.

          • Disillusioned says:

            Phil,
            I am sure you do know what you’re talking about, and thusly are fully aware your choice of and usage of the term, which is broadcast over the MSM and in the houses of politics, is to create alarm and to make ignorant people believe the oceans are turning to acid.

            With knowledge carries responsibility. You know that at 8.1, the oceans’ pH levels haven’t acidified, are not turning to acid.

            Gator said, “I always like to refer to my 1965 Webster’s Dictionary when dealing with Newspeakers.

            Acidification: 1- the act or process of acidifying.

            Acidifying: 1- >i>To make acid or convert into an acid.”

            rah said, “The term “Acidification” is hyperbolic BS intended to mislead and alarm when applied to issues of ocean pH reported to the public.”

            Webster, the former climatology student and the truck driver are all more honest than you.

        • spike55 says:

          “I’m not aware of anyone who claims this happens at -20ºF, especially if they understand the phase diagram of water.”

          Yet you seem to be claiming that ocean water at pH 8.2 is “acidified” by CO2

          which of course is TOTAL NONSENSE.

          • Phil. says:

            Yet you seem to be claiming that ocean water at pH 8.2 is “acidified” by CO2

            Adding acid to a solution and thereby reducing its pH is the process known as ‘acidification’.

          • spike55 says:

            Only in propaganda circumstances.

            It actually called neutralisation when you are talking about adding an acid to an alkali.

            http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Chemical/acidbase.html

            And in this case you aren’t even adding any acid, just maybe a TINY insignificant amount of CO2, which is not an acid.

            And sea water will never get ANYWHERE NEAR being even being “neutral”.

            No real evidence it has change by even a fraction of a pH value.

          • Phil. says:

            It actually called neutralisation when you are talking about adding an acid to an alkali.

            No, neutralization is when you add exactly the right amount of acid or base to make the solution neutral, i.e. [H+]=[OH-]

            And in this case you aren’t even adding any acid, just maybe a TINY insignificant amount of CO2, which is not an acid.

            You are adding carbonic acid which is the result of hydrolyzing CO2:
            CO2 + H2O ⇋ H2CO3

            And sea water will never get ANYWHERE NEAR being even being “neutral”.

            Doesn’t need to in order to cause damage, just like acidosis doesn’t need to get your blood to neutral to kill you.

          • Gator says:

            Phail, your expert hand waving does not change the fact that the oceans are not doing anything out of the ordinary. Just like our atmosphere, the oceans cycle through times of differing pH. The sky is not falling.

            Wei et al., 2015
            Ocean acidification is predicted to reduce the saturation state of carbonate minerals in seawater and potentially threaten the existence and development of many marine calcareous organisms, such as calcareous microorganisms and corals. Model calculations have indicated an overall decrease in global seawater pH of 0.1 relative to the preIndustrial era value, and a further pH reduction of 0.2–0.3 over the next century.

            We here estimate the OA rates from the two long (>150 years) annually resolved pH records from the northern SCS (this study) and the northern GBR [Great Barrier Reef], and the results indicate annual rates of -0.00039 +/- 0.00025 yr and -0.00034 +/- 0.00022 yr for the northern SCS [South China Sea] and the northern GBR [Great Barrier Reef], respectively. … [T]hese two time-series do not show significant decreasing trend for pH. Despite such large errors, estimated from these rates, the seawater pH has decreased by about 0.07–0.08 U over the past 200 years in these regions. … The average calculated seawater pH over the past 159 years was 8.04 [with a] a seawater pH variation range of 7.66–8.40.

            We are aware of basic chemistry, and basic physics, and neither explains what we are seeing in our changing oceans or our changing atmosphere.

            Still waiting on your example of nitpicking harassment of alarmists. How long does it take you to find one? LOL

          • spike55 says:

            More total BS from fail

            There is NO EVIDENCE that atmospheric CO2 causes ocean to take a lower pH value.

            There is NO MEASURED EVIDENCE that there has been a drop in ocean pH.

      • Gator says:

        Phail believes whatever his alarmist priests preach, and unquestioningly adopts their unholy Newspeak.

        Want to watch Phail tuck his tail and run? Ask him to provide daily criticisms he has made against the purveyors of CAGW.

  2. spike55 says:

    And even if there has been a change in ocean acidity, which is basically impossible with the enormous buffering from millions/billions of years of carbonate buildup

    1. It could never be measured, the ocean is too big and diverse, with temperature changes and currents all over the place. pH values in many place change lots more than by +/- 0.1 pH on a daily basis.

    2. It would require a further 2000% or so change in H+ ion oncentration before it even became neutral

    These IGNORANT IDIOTS obviously failed even the lowest level of chemistry and mathematics at Junior high school.

    • oeman50 says:

      The [H+] concentration is also affected by pressure. It lowers the neutral pH from 7.0 since more of the H+ and OH- are ionized in equal measure. The maroons at NatGeo have no idea of what they are talking about.

      • Phil. says:

        Yes, pH depends on pressure and temperature because the relevant equilibrium constants change. Consequently neutral pH is 7 at 25ºC whereas at 0ºC it is 7.47. Pressure has similar effects, at 25ºC and 0.4 GPa neutral pH is ~6.6.

      • Disillusioned says:

        oeman50 says:
        November 29, 2018 at 6:45 pm : The maroons at NatGeo have no idea of what they are talking about.

        Reply
        Phil. says:
        November 30, 2018 at 4:56 pm
        Yes…

      • spike55 says:

        Also depth.

        And the amount of marine plant and other life, and locality and………

  3. Locke says:

    Corals make their shells out of CaCO3 (calcium carbonate). By this logic, more CO2 results in more carbonic acid residues in water (CO3 (2-)) which will make corals grow faster!

  4. Squidly says:

    You could dissolve all of the CO2 from the atmosphere into the oceans and you would be hard pressed to be able to measure the difference in pH. The oceans contain a thousand times the CO2 concentration that the atmosphere does.

    “Ocean Acidification” is only talked about by retards.

  5. richard says:

    Even if the Ph levels became more base there is lots of wriggle room-

    Table 3 shows the different range of pH some countries are implementing. Generally, all
    countries use an average range of between 5.0 and 9.0 in freshwater, and 6.5 and 9.0 for
    marine, all of which are within the limits of optimum fish production.

    http://www.aquaculture.asia/files/PMNQ%20WQ%20standard%202.pdf

    It is never expected that the Ph levels would ever drop below 7.

  6. spike55 says:

    Graph of ALL ocean surface pH reading made since 1910

    ZERO TREND

    (Very slight but insignificant increase, actually)

    • arn says:

      There are 1.4 million cubic kilometers of water(+all the trillion tons that officially melted due to AGW but went missing(alien abduction)as no change in sea level rise appeared)

      Now try to arificially change the PH of this monster in a significant way.
      You would need millions of tons of pure Acid to get a significant effect.

      I guess any huge underwater volcano can do much more damage.

      The biggest threat for life on earth would be when the oceans start to absorb more co2 out of the atmosphere as were are not so far away from too low co2 concentrations which would end life.

    • richard says:

      How accurate is this data?

      For a long time there was a million dollar reward for an invention that would measure the pH of the seas accurately. I believe recently the award has been won.

      • spike55 says:

        The error bars probably match the range of measurements ;-)

        • Gator says:

          I think you mean that the error bats exceed the range of measurement. As is common for this settled science of basic physics.

        • Phil. says:

          Modern (since 1990s) spectrophotometric method gives an accuracy of 0.01 in pH and a precision of 0.002.

          • Gator says:

            It’s cute that you believe that Phail.

          • Phil. says:

            Demonstrated fact, Gator.

          • spike55 says:

            In pristine laboratory situations only..

            A fact, you phail again.. !!!

          • Phil. says:

            In pristine laboratory situations only..
            Which is where the measurements are made!

          • Gator says:

            Measurements of a lab? LOL

            Phail, you guys are really a joke. Lab rats! LOL

            PS -Still waiting to see examples of your childish nitpicking of alarmists.

          • Phil. says:

            Gator you really don’t have a clue where and how the pH measurements of seawater are made.

          • spike55 says:

            Phail.. you really just don’t have a clue.. period. !!!

          • spike55 says:

            “Which is where the measurements are made!”

            Poor phail, ignorance is rife.

            just removing a sample from the ocean causes changes in it pH.

            No measured evidence of changes in ocean pH, Phail !!!

            GET OVER IT.

            You will ALWAYS be a phailure.

          • Phil. says:

            just removing a sample from the ocean causes changes in it pH.

            Why does it change and what do the scientist do to deal with such changes?

          • Gator says:

            Actually Phil, I do. You see, unlike you I spent most of my time in the field, and learned that the real world is much larger, diverse, and complex than your silly lab. Theories are fun, but reality is where the truth is found. But you wouldn’t know the truth if it hit you in your egg head.

          • spike55 says:

            Stop pretending to be even more ignorant that you are, PHAIL !!!

            You really have just gone to the “desperately seeking attention” stage, haven’t you little child !!

            You KKNOW there is no measured evidence of ocean pH decline, so you are just mindlessly yapping.

          • spike55 says:

            Phail is really taking this STUPIDIFICATION meme as a direct challenge to how much stupider can he become.

            And is actually succeeding for once in his life.

            WELL DONE , phail. !

          • Phil. says:

            Actually Phil, I do. You see, unlike you I spent most of my time in the field, and learned that the real world is much larger, diverse, and complex than your silly lab. Theories are fun, but reality is where the truth is found. But you wouldn’t know the truth if it hit you in your egg head.

            Firstly Gator, you don’t have a clue what I do and where I do it. Also whatever ‘field’ you work in it’s clear from your comments that you don’t know how accurate measurements of ocean pH are made.
            I am well aware of where the truth is to be found, the company that manufactures a measurement instrument that I developed over 40 years ago is still going strong with annual revenues over $100 million.

          • Gator says:

            Phail, exactly which location in our oceans gives an exact and correct pH measurement?

            I know all about you buddy, your type is dime a dozen. According to a famous circus master, there’s one of you born every minute.

          • spike55 says:

            Poor phlip, digging deeper and deeper into his own STUPIDITY !

            Do you really think it is possible to measure “whole of ocean” pH to 1 dp when it fluctuates over time and place by FAR more than that pibbling insignificant 1 dp amount.

            You are in WAY over your head in your own STUPID already, and it keep falling back in on you

            STOP DIGGING !!!

          • spike55 says:

            “is still going strong with annual revenues over $100 million.”

            Got kicked out, hey phail. !!

      • spike55 says:

        “an invention that would measure the pH of the seas accurately”

        Link please

        It will however not be able to measure the ocean pH of 50-100 years ago.

    • Disillusioned says:

      8.2 to 8.1

  7. NavarreAggie says:

    Furthermore, corals of diverse types can easily survive in environments (and aquariums) where the pH is around 7.8 or lower. Still not acidic, but MUCH lower than current ocean levels.

    The reason why? Coral envelop their tissues and skeleton (if they’re stony corals) with a slime coat that allows them to modify the pH next to their bodies. In other words, the *reason* corals survive in a variety of environments is due to their ability to modify their surroundings.

    Couple this information with the fact that there is not enough CO2 in natural seawater for symbiotic zooxanthallae to carry on meaningful photosynthesis, and corals have evolved enzymes to convert dissolved carbonates into CO2 to feed the zooxanthallae and, therefore, feed themselves.

    Pollution and reef destruction on a massive scale (like in the Spratly Islands) is far more of a concern than minuscule amounts of CO2.

  8. Gamecock says:

    They use decimal points to show they have a sense of humor.

    • Phil. says:

      No, they do it because they understand that pH is a logarithmic scale.

      • spike55 says:

        idiot !!

        Use of decimal places is nothing to do with it being a logarithmic scale.

        • Phil. says:

          Of course it is you fool. Just like the recent earthquake in alaska is reported as a 7.0 on the Richter scale. Being a logarithmic scale an increment of 0.1 represents a change of 24%. If you only reported pH or Richter scale without using decimals you’d only be reporting changes of a factor of ten!

          • spike55 says:

            MORON. !!

            the use of 1 dp is NOTHING to do with it being a logarithmic scale

            If its a 24% change, why not be more precise and use 2 dp

            Are you saying that every logarithmic scale uses 1 decimal place?

            WOW.. totally BIZARRE !!!

            Did you skip maths for most of junior high or something.

          • Phil. says:

            MORON. !!

            the use of 1 dp is NOTHING to do with it being a logarithmic scale

            If its a 24% change, why not be more precise and use 2 dp

            They do when the measurement technique and statistical treatment of the measurements justify it.
            In the graph that Tony used the data is presented ±1 std error, which in that case is approximately ±0.05.

            Are you saying that every logarithmic scale uses 1 decimal place?
            No, refuting Gamecock’s assertion that 1dp was somehow an overly accurate statement.

          • spike55 says:

            So incredibly DOPEY.

            The use of 1 dp has NOTHING to do with it being a logarithmic scale.

            That was the absolutely MORONIIC and mathematically idiotic statement you make

            Stop digging deeper and deeper into your mindless quicksand

            YOU HAVE PHAILED, yet again !!

          • spike55 says:

            And yes, stating whole of ocean pH to 1 dp is also abject NONSENSE.

            There is absolutely NO WAY in which that can ever be justified.

            The range is far , far greater.

            2000% increase in H+ required to even neutralise.

            NOT acidifying, will NEVER be acidic.

            And there is no whole of ocean measurement that shows any change in pH at all.

            PHAILURE. !!!

  9. David of Aussie says:

    But, but, but, i saw a David Attenborough doco where he and a climate scientist drops a piece of coral into a fish tank and the coral bubbled and fizzed like a cold chip placed in a vat of hot oil. So it must be true. The fact that the tank was full of battery acid doesn’t matter. I saw it with my own eyes.

  10. Johansen says:

    The oceans are complex. There are species that live well at lower pH, and species that can utilize “bicarbonates” directly in building their little houses. The ability of creatures to adapt – using previously built-in genetic information – makes the issue of ocean pH way more complicated than CAGW purveyors want you to believe

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