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An occupying or invading force?
Answer is: Yes.
Glenn Greenwald did a nice write-up. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/08/14/militarization-u-s-police-dragged-light-horrors-ferguson/
It would seem that the leftist journalists are finding out that they are not seen as “special”
Victim Mentality Afflicts Black Community
2nd thought … Is that the payroll truck? (thinking back to stagecoach days and pay wagons …)
That is the St Louis County Police?
I thought it was an army squadron!
Um, “it is”.
And those cops all still act like they’re all still patrolling Fallujah.
For practical purposes, at the height of the ‘rioting’, they are …
Rioting perps were taking shots at the police heli a couple days ago.
So says the MSM, anyway. I’d like to see the evidence.
I will not accept some kevlar-clad goon pointing a rifle at me when I’m peacefully protesting. THAT is a police state.
Do these thugs really think they’ll prevail in an all-out insurrection?
Obama did say he wanted a civilian army to match the US military.
Figure any and all materiel brought back from Iraq is available from Dod program %1033 to ‘civilian’ departments:
http://www.dps.mo.gov/dir/programs/cjle/dod.asp
Department of Defense Excess Property Program (DoD 1033)
The Department of Defense Excess Property Program (1033 Program) is authorized under federal law and managed through the Defense Logistics Agency’s Law Enforcement Support Office (LESO) in Ft. Belvoir, Va.
The 1033 Program provides surplus DoD military equipment to state and local civilian law enforcement agencies for use in counter-narcotics and counter-terrorism operations, and to enhance officer safety. The Missouri Department of Public Safety is the sponsoring state agency responsible for administration of the 1033 Program in Missouri.
The Posse Comitatus Act (wiki, b/c its fast)
The Posse Comitatus Act is the United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) that was passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction and was updated in 1981. Its intent (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) was to limit the powers of Federal government in using federal military personnel to enforce the state laws.
The Act, as modified in 1981, refers to the Armed Forces of the United States. It does not apply to the National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state’s governor. The United States Coast Guard, which operates under the Department of Homeland Security, is also not covered by the Posse Comitatus Act, primarily because the Coast Guard has both a maritime law enforcement mission and a federal regulatory agency mission.
I haven’t a clue regarding the events in that Missouri town. Believe the mainstream news media? Believe our First Cop, President Obama? How about those “burn and pillage” folks who claim that they are mere “protestors?” Then there are those “uniformed thugs”–part of Barack Obama’s “civilian national security force” that is just as powerful and well-funded as the Department of Defense.
Something is going on–but if we get our news from the mainstream media, we’re misinformed. The agenda of the mainstream “news” media is to draw eyeballs through entertaining drama and thus rack up record advertising revenue.
Yes, exactly. We know (with certainty based on experience) that the Mainstream Media are liars who do not have our best interest in mind. We know (with certainty based on experience) that the various governmental spokespeople for the current administration are liars who do not have our best interest in mind. Who shall we trust? No one — but we will probably get closest to the truth by listening to smaller news organizations, local radio or independent TV, or interviews with residents of the area.
Who in the hell would have thought that was a good idea.
I don’t know what to say. This is over-kill. I sure hope the MO Guard doesn’t get involved. I Pray for this Police State Mentality and Rioting Citizens Mentality, stops. May cooler heads prevail. “Jesus, Mercy!” I have a relative, in the MO Guard.
To quote from an article written by Glenn Reynolds in 2006:
The subtle effect is also real: Dress like a soldier and you think you’re at war. And, in wartime, civil liberties–or possible innocence–of the people on “the other side” don’t come up much. But the police aren’t at war with the citizens they serve, or at least they’re not supposed to be.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/paramilitary-police-force-ferguson?click=main_sr
reminds me of all the riots when those black guys were playing the knock out game and killing people…..
“Who’s having fun now?” … the Q in light of the pic above had to be asked …
Tensions increase after St. Louis police officer shoots man near site of Brown protests
Is the government going to push this into Martial law and the Reign of Emperour Obama the First (/sarc I hope)
Huff n’ Puff seems to be fanning the flames.
Turns out, the McDonald’s was in the words of someone who has seen it “boarded up”. It does not seem to be as the Huff and Puff reporters contend, as if they had just ‘drifted by’ and gone into McD’s for a cup of Joe and then were harassed by the cops …
I had a vision of hot dog vendors and people selling balloons…..
Oh … a ‘carnival’ atmosphere … that’ll be on the CNN mobile news van/bus …
sure looks like the land of the free from here,not. just like the uk there is now not much point in voting. you think the next arsehole you get as president will be any better than the incumbent ? no chance, the political classes are all cut from the same cloth these days,self aggrandizement and making the wealthy wealthier is first ,second and third on the list , the people ? none of them give a fuck about the people .
3 hours ago….
Fan the flames some more why don’t we?
I hope they don’t do “The Detroit Thing” and let the riots continue; that’s what hastened the decline of Detroit. That was a turning point in Detroit’s history when in 1967 then mayor Jerome Cavanaugh decided not to use force ‘early on’ and of course the rest is history.
.
Read your link. That was illuminating. The “nip-it-in-the-bud” approach has merit.
And sadly the Ferguson PD’s focus on justifying the killing has blown-up on them. Not sure how it would have turned out if they took a lot more time investigating to let things cool off. The race hustlers might have fanned the flames anyway.
Gotta have some more distractions from the Iraq situation and all the administration’s various and sundry scandals / outright lies.
And the only thing the laughingstock-in-chief’s administration seems capable of doing well is race baiting and race hustling. I love Holder’s opinion that criticizing the affirmative action president is racist.
Book: “Violence in the Model City”
The Cavanagh Administration, Race Relations, and the Detroit Riot of 1967
http://muse.jhu.edu/books/9781609170295
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A better use for those pictured above, along with a similar group from each state, would be deployed on the US southern border. I mention each state, because every corner of this country, from Neah Bay to Bar Harbor, will be affected eventually.
Just in case you forgot, this is not the first time the Idiot in Chief has played football with American lives to advance his agendas and to cover up his scandals. We are getting close to election time and this is an instant replay of 2010:
Looks like we are seeing a repeat of the same tactics by Obummer and his cohorts.
Not quite. The movie was always about foreign troops.
With my poorly, worn out, eyes I mistakenly thought it was the Russian ‘aid’ convoy to the Ukraine arriving.
That was my first thought too. I had to ‘zoom’ and try to reed the lettering on the truck.
Hard to believe those are Police in the USA isn’t it? It looks like occupation forces in a vanquished country….
Oh I forgot it is.
grumble – I really want an edit button.
reed = read.
Well your “smell” checker was happy with “reed”. I guess word press doesn’t want people to correct their spelling.
Just a thought but…
Didn’t the Roman elites end up using the Centurions to bolster the Praetorian Guard to quell the civil unrest before Rome’s downfall?
I think so. Here’s wiki, and not that I fully trust it nor my memory of Roman history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praetorian_Guard.
Thanks
Tom…a Centurion is an officer. What was used was foreign mercenaries, primarily German.
True, the officer class (Centurions, etc,) were used to support the useless Praetorian Guard.
This neutered the best of the Roman armies, and turned many other free professional soldiers against the authority of the Roman elites.
While I don’t agree with the militarization of the police to the extent it has occurred I also understand why they need what they have to deal with riots and rampant looting. Shop owners with friends are standing armed guard outside of their businesses to protect them. They have AR-15s and AKs that are semi automatic and so…………..
Always remember that be it military or police they are our fellow citizens. There is a line that some if not most will not cross if they are pushed too far against their fellow citizens. They aren’t mercs and they aren’t a privileged class. They are us and we are them to a large extent.
The day the pay of the police and military is such that it makes them a privileged class above the average citizen is the day this country and what it stands for has ended.
Years ago a survey of US military was taken. In that survey questions were asked about posse comitatus issues. What the answers showed was that a first term enlisted soldier was far more likely to just follow orders no matter if the order was lawful or not. Professionals, enlisted troops on their third enlistment and thus NCOs were not. Same kind of thing went for the officers. So the leadership then at least understood that they were there to serve the people under the authority of the Constitution and NOT to serve a government. I sure hope it is still that way.
And that brings up the question Why has Obama Fired 197 US Senior Military Commanders in 5 years? (nine Generals in 2013)
and the reason for 1.6 Billion Rounds Of Ammo For Homeland Security?
Call me narapoid but I really do not like the left turn this country has taken in less than a decade.
Me neither. Let us see if we swing back right again. BTW many of those generals deserved what they got but a substantial number did not.
A whole lot of guys get a star and think they’re God. The fall to sexual harassment and such. When I was serving an officer I had known for some time finally got his star. I learned some things from him about the way flag officers ruin their careers. The funny thing is that it’s the guys that play the game and from the time they got their butter bar were thinking of how to become a flag officer are far more likely to screw up once they have a star or two on their collar than the professionals that got that star by standing on principles and being effective leaders.
Oh, BTW, as far as the ammo? I suspect there are several motives but one of them is certainly keeping the manufactures busy so there is a shortage of rounds available for civilian uses.
Not really. The purchase of ammo by government entities is not that large a driver. (But buying all duty ammunition and no training ammunition is a bit suspect.) The larger driver has been Obama… gun salesman numero uno. Millions of people have purchased firearms for the first time and millions more are actively shooting and training to protect themselves and their families. Add on to that people who are buying in advance of expected bans (like import 5.45×39) and stockpiling. That’s what has stressed the ammunition supply and with this current regime I understand it completely.
There have been shortages of 45, 38, 9mm, 5.56/.223, 7.62/30 and lots of other calibers here and elsewhere for years now. Hell I can get .303 for my WW I Enfield easier than 45 ACP for my Glock 21 and Combat Commander. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/02/16/ammunition-shortage/1919321/
It started the first year Obama was elected and has continued. So it started before there was a large increase in civilian demand.
Yet I notice that nobody is having trouble getting .22 or shot gun shells, even with slugs and 00 buck.
Handy little site for ya: http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/pistol/9mm/
Thinking on this is that all purchases for all federal agencies (exc armed forces) have been centralized through DHS for ‘best price’ and centralization of inventory. Bureaucrats think like that. Remember all these agencies now report up the chain to The Department of Homeland (a retarded term if I ever one) Security (sounds like a prison or rent-a-cop operation).
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…While I don’t agree with the militarization of the police to the extent it has occurred I also understand why they need what they have to deal with riots and rampant looting….
>>>>>>>>>>
That is what the national guard is for, not the police. And if needed that is what the US Army is for. The mechanisms for the escalation of force has been around for years there is no reason for the militarization of our peace officers and there is CERTAINLY ZERO reason for SWAT teans to be serving warrants for minor infractions with brute and sometimes killing force.
When you actually think about it, the ONLY real reason is to get people used to living in a police state where freedom is a distant memory.
Mayor Cheye Calvo “Oh, God, I thought they were going to shoot me next”
This time it was some black dude but that doesn’t mean the next time it might be you who has their house broken into and gets shot.
I am on a short 6 mile long road in farm country near no cities and we have had three drug raids. One was next door and involved truckloads of ground troops plus helicopters going after a smokable hemp plantation.
I was raised in St. Louis and in another life I attended the St. Louis County police academy and was commissioned in that county. This kind of stuff scares the cr*p out of me. I don’t know the real details of what happened here but we appear to be heading down the path our Progressive masters wish for… civil disobedience. The federal government would really love to have an excuse to take over and this hack governor in MO appears to be doing his best to keep the riot going in order to validate the feds (illegally) stepping in. That should never happen. They can pull the county cops out and have them patrol the municipalities in the county and have those mun’y officers take their place. This is legal as their commissions are by county. They can also use the St. Louis City police department which also has jurisdiction state wide. (In an odd twist the City of St. Louis is not in a county so all of it’s police commissions are directly from the state giving them power everywhere in MO.) On the other side of the coin is the Federal Government who has NO police powers whatsoever anywhere other than a federal enclave and select Indian Nations.
I hate to be a conspiracy guy but if it walks like and quacks like… what’re ya gonna do. The Progs in our government want a revolution that they have to put down. (I can’t believe I just typed that.) The Information Age has forced their hand and if they don’t slam the trap shut quickly, the one our buddy Woodrow Wilson started laying out a century ago, they will lose whatever advantage they had. As with this climate garbage… they are losing control of the story and the truth is getting out. Truth and Progressives don’t get along and they will fight their own mothers to stop the truth.
They will not “let this crisis go to waste.” Others in these threads have noted the heavy hand of the DoJ in the Trayvon Martin debacle and I would bet every one of tonyp’s obfuscations that they are up to their little totalitarian necks in this current fiasco. We all need to be level headed and vigilant but I no longer trust that anyone in our collective governments has the best interests of the people in mind… ever. To paraphrase Cromwell; “Put your trust in God, my boys, and keep your powder dry.”
I think the feds have an interest when it comes to large-scale ‘events’ of this nature; it would not be the first time the feds via federal troops even were called in and used to ‘quell riots and rebellion’.
A refresher on Detroit, includes a riot in Detroit in 1943 where Roosevelt dispatched Fifth Army troops, and again in 1967 when Johnson dispatched federal troops:
http://www.psc.isr.umich.edu/pubs/pdf/rr07-620.pdf
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_Jim we understand large scale riots are a problem and troops have had to be sent in. However this stinks to high heavens of ‘set-up’ given our idiot in Chief and what his DoJ did to stir up protests in Florida in the exact same manner.
I think that conclusion is a bit premature; do not mistake amateurish, inept decisions for ‘planned, determined’ action.
You’re forgetting (or, overlooking) what precipitated riots in Watts and Detroit, I think; Conspiracy theorists appear good at _not_ knowing their history, ignoring what has happened before and how ‘decisions’ were bungled or delayed (by mayors or govenors) so long that the plan of action they finally settled on were ineffective, SUCH AS WAS THE CASE WITH Detroit mayor Jerome Cavanaugh in 1967. I don’t have time to ‘spoon feed’ you on this, but at LEAST take in this material I posted previously:
http://www.psc.isr.umich.edu/pubs/pdf/rr07-620.pdf
You’re a smart girl. Read and become educated on another facet of humankind.
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_Jim escalating is not the answer and that is what you are promoting. It is a sure route straight to martial law and the complete loss of our Constitution.
As long as the cops have a license to kill innocents and NEVER go to trial. As long as the MSM fans the hate between the blacks, the whites, the hispanics and the police, all you will do is drive that hatred underground where it will fester like an unlanced boil.
I lived in the combat zone in Boston in a black neighborhood with a black roomie, black friends and neighbors. So I am not exactly sheltered.
Initially I truly had hopes that Obama would serve as an example and we could put ‘Affirmative Action” and all the rest of the racism crap behind us. Instead we have a government determined to foment as much trouble and hatred as possible.
“American Suicide” a speech by Former Colorado Governor Richard Lamm on how multiculturalism can affect America explains it better than I can.
He titled it “A Plan to Destroy America”
THAT is what I see as the root cause and militarization of the police will just make it a whole hell of a lot worse in the long run.
The only question now is, is the rot so pervasive that the entire body dies? Are black leaders so focused on gaining political power for themselves that they will sacrifice the rest of the blacks?
I take it back, you are not such a smart girl.
You just choose the option that progressive mayor Jerome Cavanaugh choose.
Thanks for playing.
.
errata: chose
“Those who fail to remember the past are doomed to repeat it.”
– G. Santayana
You just repeated mistakes earlier made, Gail. Seems you are not prone to ‘self education’ after all.
_Jim
What part of CONSENT of the governed do you not comprehend?
What part of ESCALATE do you not comprehend?
Remember the Bundy Ranch?
How about the Henshaws?
So is it OK to shoot a black but not OK to shoot a white? Or is it OK to break into the house of a white mayor and hold him and his elderly mother-in-law at gun point for hours?
Israel is an entirely different matter and your thinking, conflating WARS with enemies from outside the border, is exactly the point. WE ARE NOT THE ENEMY!
We either have a ‘Gestapo’ or we have peace officers.
We either do something about the root cause of the problem or we lose the country.
Gestapo:
From: http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/call/docs/10-16/ch_11.asp
This excerpt:
– – – – – – – –
Historical Role of Federal Forces in Law Enforcement
Federal military troops have been used often to enforce the laws of the Nation. In the past two hundred fifteen years, the Army and, to a lesser extent, the Marine Corps has enforced the laws in over 167 incidents, or about 0.75 times per year on the average. Federal troops have been called on to quell insurrections, enforce unpopular federal laws, govern the seven states of the defeated Confederacy, protect minorities from harm, quell race riots, police the lawless West, guard the borders, break strikes, protect key assets against sabotage, seize and operate war plants, enforce civil rights laws, operate the postal service, and protect the population from lawless elements. (See U.S. Army Center of Military History, The Role of Federal Military Forces in Domestic Disorders, 1789-1878 (1988).)
Presidents of all persuasions have used federal troops when the need occurred. Presidents who opposed such use of troops while campaigning found that once in office they needed to do that very thing. In the early days the tendency was to rely first on the militia. It soon became apparent, however, that state militias were unreliable and in some cases, partisan, so ultimate reliance would have to be placed on the federal troops to keep the peace. Presidents still prefer to let governors rely on the state militias (now the National Guard) if they can, and indeed most domestic disorders have been handled without federal intervention.
The United States invariably has been unprepared, except for wartime periods, to deal in a timely manner with civil disorders and other domestic operations that require the use of federal troops. Laws and policies for the use of federal troops to enforce the laws were developed and institutionalized to follow the lessons learned from the previous response. As a result of this reactive preparedness, these laws and policies have usually been ill suited to the new situations and different causes. It has been as if each incident were a completely new phenomenon. Many times, commanders of federal troops ordered to intervene in civil disorders were ignorant or unsure of the laws and the rules governing such operations. Current policies follow this pattern. They are based on past experience, which is unlikely to be the best for future incidents.
A major source of confusion is the Posse Comitatus Act, which many people believe-incorrectly-prohibits the use of federal troops to enforce the law in the United States.
What was originally no more than a way to prevent US attorneys and local sheriffs to require federal troops to enforce the law has become, in popular myth, a general proscription of any use of federal troops to enforce the law. This general belief is belied by the fact that despite the Posse Comitatus Act, Presidents after 1878 have used federal troops to enforce the laws when they saw fit to do so
– – – – – – – –
“The United States invariably has been unprepared, except for wartime periods, to deal in a timely manner with civil disorders and other domestic operations that require the use of federal troops.”
This is by design and the federalization of our State’s standing militias (now known as the National Guard) is how the “problem” was created. We are a Constitutional Republic, a collection of States that has defined a limited role for a Federal government to provide a unitary front to the rest of the world and to provide for the common defense along with the other enumerated powers in Article 1 Section 8. Nowhere in our Constitution did the States give the Federal government police powers at any locations other than federal enclaves. Nowhere in the Constitution did we give Congress the power to change that nor did we give the Judicial branch that power. The “Posse Comitatus Act” (like so much of federal law passed after the Civil War) has no Constitutional foundation as the Constitution requires the State to apply to Congress for protection against “domestic Violence.” Article IV, Section 4. (Note it says nothing about police powers, simply protection.) Congress doesn’t seem to understand that the Constitution also doesn’t give them the authority to give away their authority. That would require a Constitutional amendment.
This is one of my major peeves that our schools, news media and (of course) politicians continually ignore the Constitutional limits placed on the Federal government. The Supreme Court also doesn’t get to give away powers it never had and that is the crux of our problems. The checks and balances are all unchecked and on the wrong side of the balance… and if we think it’s bad now, imagine what our current regime would be doing if “We The People” were disarmed. A truly terrifying thought.
+1
I have nothing but contempt for the US supreme court and all its unconstitutional ‘decisions’
nielszoo says on August 14, 2014 at 11:19 pm
Just curious, did you peruse any of the material at the link I posted, or just the few paragraphs I excerpted posted?
It would behoove any and all to take a quick glance at the link I posted; the astute will know from the URL the ‘quality’ of the source from which I excerpted the material … there are a LOT of references to Public Law (US Congressional Acts) and DoD doctrine on these matters.
http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/
– – – – – – –
This is an official U.S. Army site.
This … is the home of the US Army’s Combined Arms Center (CAC). CAC, as a major subordinate headquarters of the U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command, has often been referred to as the “Intellectual Center of the Army”
– – – – – – –
bj, you keep claiming to be a Texan. Here are the basics.
A real Texan does not refer to a woman as “girl”. He uses the term “Ma’am”.
Maybe you were raised in an urban environment, and do not have an oil well, or cattle. Maybe you buy your cowboy hats and boots at Walmart. Maybe you drive a small Honda and have never owned a 4WD truck. Maybe you have never broke a horse, shot a coyote, or killed a Diamondback Rattlesnake. Maybe you just dream of being a Texan….
Oh, don’t mind _Jim, he is just the Dis-info agent paid to follow me around the internet.
Notice how his point of view has changed.
In the Bundy ranch case he was anti the militarization but in this case he is FOR the militarization.
Can’t happen here.
Simply put the powers that be have been working towards these ends for decades. Diminishing people, frustrating them, pushing them further and further encouraging a backlash. Meanwhile it’s been creating the law-and-order mentality, the acceptance of the use of force, the conditioning to using occupation like methods. With every spark occupation becomes more normal. Then one day it will be normal. And the people will welcome it.
+1
Meanwhile, property owners and home owners in the area WANT the poh-leece (that’s how we say it in Texas) to take on the rioters. Here is an exchange from earlier today with a Ferguson resident stuck in the middle of it:
– – – – – – –
Ferguson Resident: We are Not Afraid of the Police — We are Afraid of the Rioters
August 14, 2014
HOST: This Joe in St. Louis. Welcome, sir, and I’m glad you called. Hi.
CALLER: Hi, HOST! I live right there at Chambers and West Florissant, and I’ve been confronted by the police twice, and if you are polite and do what they tell you to do you have no problem. The McDonald’s that they’re talking about is boarded up and closed. Those reporters were trespassing, and if they do what they were told, uh, they would not have had a —
HOST: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold it just a second. Just a second now. The audio sound bite I just played, one of these reporters — Wesley Lowery, the Washington Post — said, “I asked specifically, ‘Under what charges am I being held? Why am I being detained?’ He said, ‘For trespassing.’ So we were ‘trespassing’ as patrons of a McDonald’s where we both made purchases and had been working for a long time.” So you’re telling me the place is boarded up?
CALLER: They shattered the windows there. There’s businesses all up and down that street. The glass has been broke out. They even ransacked Sam’s and Kmart, totally stripped their electronics department. I am glad the police are doing what they’re doing because they’re protecting us people back in the neighborhoods. We’re scared. All of my neighbors are scared.
HOST: Makes sense.
CALLER: It’s the police that are protecting us from the rioters. We’re not afraid of the police. We’re afraid of the rioters.
HOST: Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Have you taken the time to understand the rage of the rioters and understand why it is they’re doing what they’re doing?
CALLER: I don’t care whether they’re angry or mad. They’re breaking the law.
HOST: And you see the cops as trying to enforce it?
CALLER: They are enforcing it. You can’t… Right now, because of what they’re doing, you can’t even drive behind a business. They will stop you, and if you just say, “Yes, sir,” and turn around and go back, you’re fine.
HOST: Well, this is an interesting point. Let’s talk about human psychology in 2014 for a second, human emotion. I think one of the things in play here, let’s say — and I don’t mean to insult you with this. Please don’t be insulted. But you have to understand, Joe, that anybody can call me here and say anything. I’m not challenging what you’re saying. So when I say, “Let’s take what you say as verbatim,” I don’t mean that as an insult, ’cause I want to make a point off of it.
CALLER: I’ve listened here for over 20 years, and I know (chuckles). I appreciate your humor.
HOST: Okay. Well, no, I’m not trying to be funny here. I’m trying to explain something. But in order to make my point I have to tell the audience, “Let’s assume that what Joe says is true,” and I just want you to know when I say, “Let’s assume,” I’m not disbelieving you. I’m just setting something up here.
So everything you say is true. The street that you’re talking about, the McDonald’s, places have been looted, and the cops are enforcing the law, and the cops are protecting private property from further damage, vandalism, looting, what have you. The cops are protecting neighborhoods, okay?
Now, some people, Joe, actually believe that because a cop shot an unarmed teenager, that the cops ought to look the other way when there is a reaction to it because people think that the cop shooting an unarmed teenager is wrong, and therefore there must be a price paid for that. Some people look at the price and say, “You gotta do understand that the vandalism’s gonna happen, HOST.
“You have to understand they’re gonna loot. They’re ticked off! The cops killed an unarmed kid,” and so some people expect the cops to look the other way as a means of not ratcheting up tensions even further. Some people, Joe, I’m telling you. I’m not talking about residents. I mean, people not living in St. Louis, looking at the situation — maybe media — would say, “Maybe the cops, for community peace, should just kind of look the other way.”
CALLER: One wrong does not justify another wrong.
HOST: No, I know. I know. So here’s what happens. When people who think that the cops should look the other way say, “Just, you know, don’t go after anymore people. Just kind of stand aside. Let some things happen. Let them boil over. Let ’em get it out of their system. Let ’em do some looting. Let ’em do this. You know, give ’em a week before you enforce the law.”
When the cops then come in and enforce the law, those people that think the way I’ve just described think the cops are being hard, cold, mean SOBs, ’cause they don’t understand. So when you call and support what the cops are doing and say, “We’re scared. They’re protecting us. They’re trying to keep order and so forth,” a lot of people are gonna think you’re the weirdo.
Not me. I’m just telling you that America 2014 has some very odd ideas about conflict resolution and expectations and how a wrong is dealt with and so forth. Many of them think that a show of force, enforcing the law, is provocative, unnecessary, and mean, given all the circumstances here.
CALLER: Well, just like Israel: If you don’t show force and strength, it only gets worse.
HOST: Oh, I hear you. That’s why I say, I was not challenging the accuracy of what you said. But I think, folks, it’s an important point. Because these end up being really bad attitudes toward cops who are just doing what Joe said here: Trying to go enforce the law and protect people.
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.
Hmmmm …. the caller said “Well, just like Israel: If you don’t show force and strength, it only gets worse.”
Interesting …
.
Jim….I think a lot of it is taking advantage….and a lot of it is trying to out do each other on who is the more upset…..a lot of acting, thieving..
Isn’t that part of life – in many areas?
I think the point is a bit more than that.
An unarmed person was shot by police AND no one seriously expects that the courts and the justice system will ever hold those police accountable for their actions. This is because on numerous other occasions we have seen that police are not held accountable. Oh, the camera just stopped working that day. Oh, there were no witnesses willing to come forward. Oh, the policeman saw something in his hand but no one else could see it. Don’t worry we did an internal investigation, in secret, and it all looks OK. We put it to the government prosecutor who decided not to prosecute.
So when justice fails, people turn to violence. The purpose of a justice system is to prevent this from happening.
+100
re: Tel says August 14, 2014 at 11:24 pm
I think the point is a bit more than that.
An unarmed person was shot by police AND …
Yeah … hang’em, eh? How high?
In your (presumed haste) did you by chance catch this tidbit posted by Gail?
Would you care to explain or fill in some missing detailsbased on what you saw between the time the 18 yr old was in the street and then shortly later inside the squad car scuffling with the cop when shots were fired?
See, your material observations are sorely needed; I should also direct you to call the St Louis County Police Department and provide a formal, eye-witness report in the form of an affidavit of fact.
.
In a civil society populated by sane adults, the response is not to steal from and to destroy the property of your neighbors, who are not responsible for the actions of the police officer, and who have no influence on the machinations of the justice system.
There is no “social justice” angle here to be understood. There is only lawlessness, violence, and stealing.
Do you really need a list of the cases where police brutality has just gone uninvestigated by the justice system?
Recent UK investigation found 333 deaths in police custody since 1998, with zero convictions of any police. Actually, no officer convicted since 1969.
Erik Scott shot dead in Costco while attempting to drop the weapon he was legally carrying (after being bailed up by police at gunpoint), internal inquest discovers shooting was reasonable, strangely camera stops working.
Kenneth Chamberlain, Sr., a 68-year-old Marine vet… his medical alarm triggered for some reason, cops came around and shot him dead in his own home. Secret grand jury review decides no criminal charge is necessary.
John Crawford III shot dead in a Walmart without warning while carrying a toy gun that he was attempting to purchase from said Walmart. Video has been witheld from the family.
John Wrana Jr. 95 year old man in a nursing home shot by police with stun gun and multiple times with bean-bags out of a 12-gauge shot gun, at point blank range causing (unsurprisingly) his death. Family have started lawuit.
Kelly Thomas, homeless man punched to death (unofficial video available on YouTube) after Manny Ramos stated, “Now you see my fists? They are getting ready to fuck you up.” Case went to court, all parties acquitted.
Eric Garner, 43, choked to death by NY police in the street accused of selling untaxed cigarettes but police were unable to find any cigarettes either on his person or in his car at the time. Witness reports were quite different to police reports.
Ezell Ford, young man shot dead by police while unarmed and laying in the street:
Jack Lamar Roberson, shot by police after a 911 call regarding diabetes medication.
The list is long, Wiki has many of them…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States
Gosh yes, brute force has solved all of Israel’s problems.
Sheer genius ^ this one.
Long list of ‘success’ eh?
1948 Palestine War (November 1947 – July 1949)
Six-Day War (June 1967)
1982 Lebanon War (1982)
First Intifada (1987–1993)
Second Intifada (2000–2005)
2006 Lebanon War (summer 2006)
Gaza War (December 2008 – January 2009)
Operation Pillar of Defense (November 2012)
Operation Protective Edge (July 2014)
.
And without Israel’s use of force, Israel would no longer exist, because enough of its neighbors are sworn to a philosophy that includes the utter annihilation of Israel.
Yesm and that’s what upsets them the most…Isreal DOES exist.
No. Israel’s LACK of the willingness to use brute force to kill people and break things has always led to a “truce” that lasts until Hamas, the PLA or whoever gets another shipment of missiles and digs a few more tunnels. Israel has enough power to turn the Middle East into a glass parking lot. Unfortunately, some of the Islamofacists want just that, and will probably get it. Hopefully not in my lifetime.
If you want to check, the recent offecsive against Hamas was justified because of the kidnap and murder of three Israeli teenagers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers
Problem is, Hamas didn’t do it, please note: “The two named suspects hail from the Qawasameh clan which is notorious for consistently acting against Hamas’s policies and its attempts to reach an entente with Israel.
What else can you do when your opponent has repeatedly declared his objective is to wipe you off the face of the earth?
Gosh yes, brute force has solved all of Israel’s problems.
Without the use of it, Israel would have ceased to exist in 1948, and Amin al-Husseini’s ambition for a Judenrein Middle East would have been accomplished.
How do you think the Allies won WWII, by sitting the German and Japanese leaders down and offering them cups of tea and biscuits?
Leaders of Germany and Japan surrendered. The leader of the USSR emerged more powerful after WWII.
Of course they want the police, they want the occupation. As I stated in my comment, that’s exactly how this country will become a full fledged police state. Not over the objections of the people but by the demands of the people.
The government creates the problem which leads to the reaction and the government has the solution. Which of course is more government power.
+100
By Jove, I think he’s got it!
“Bad attitudes towards cops” is the key consideration, that needs to be focused upon.
Problem – Reaction – Solution
Cause chaos and pose as the ‘savior’ when your actions cause things to implode.
Its a very old game that the psychopath control freaks play in order to live as parasites off the population.
And you _jim are falling for it hook line and sinker.
So much for US exceptionalism. Power is power, abuse is abuse w/o regard for national borders or political systems. Anybody remember Kent State, Ludlow ? and there are certainly more examples.
My boy friend was in the Kent State
riotprotest. The true story of the reason for the riot -the town removed the voting rights of the veterans on campus – was rewritten to cover the asses of the guilty and keep the American public placated.That is why the MSM televised film footage of the Vietnam War riots at my University shortly there after even though there was no riot and ZERO unrest. I was on campus all day.
However the official ‘history’ of Kent Sate is all you will find on the net and in 20 to 30 years the actual history will die with Bill and his fellow students.
I knew a retired detective who was on site the day after the Kent State fiasco. It seems that he and his partner found fresh holes and shotgun pellets in the trees between the “protestors” and the National Guard. The odd part was that the shot was embedded in the trees on the “protester’s” side and it was not buck or rubber ball (which is what police and military are issued.) Rather simple physics says that the shotgun would have needed to be fired from the “protester’s” position. The trees were cut down and this is in no official report. The gentleman I got this info from has no reason (that I know of) to have made it up and he served his lifetime as a peace officer in many different jurisdictions and knowing now what I know about governments (from the inside) it makes perfect sense.
I rate his account as extremely credible (this is a guy I would trust my life and the lives of my family to) and on the outside chance it is wrong, one should still consider the implications of as well as the actions that resulted from the firing of a single shotgun shell. Imagine if the manipulations of this current regime were brought to light? Those of us that are not sheep, bleating behind our Progressive shepherd, need to stay on our collective guard. I truly hate sounding like I belong in the tinfoil hat crowd but things like this really worry me.
Niel,
What scared the be-jeez out of me was how calculated it was.
The film footage of a massive riot was shown on all TV stations nation wide EXCEPT in the state the college was in. No one else in the dorm had parents who saw that film. No else got frantic calls from scared out of their wits parents.
It was a Land Grant College so out of state students were rather rare. Also it was an engineering/Ag schools so the guys out numbered the gals by 20 to 1 {:>D
Since then I have seen nothing that makes me think we are not being manipulated by the MSM. As I related earlier. The polystryene scare in the nineties also came out of no where and went nationwide in a heart beat. At first that scare was linked to a teacher in NH (log ==> paper rival of polystryene throw away dishes) Now the ‘scare’ is suposed to have been from some school age kid. (Guess the logging link was a little too obvious)
That scare was timed to beat the TV news release of the joint, McDonalds, Sweetheart Plastics, and Novacor, innovate new post consumer polystyrene recycling plant, by less than a month. (My boss was the chem engineer who designed that plant.)
Seems Novacor CEO S. Robert Blair, had stomped on Shell Oil toes not once but twice when he snatched up not only Polysar Plastics but Husky Oil from under their nose. So they tried to bankrupt his company and came darn close to doing it. The certainly took him out of the big league.
The Shell Oil – World Wild Life Federation connection:
The Dutch royal family (The House of Orange) is still reportedly the biggest shareholder in Royal Dutch Shell, although the size of its stake has long been a source of debate. Another major stockholder is the Rothschilds. The Rothschild Investment Trust was formed in 1988 and united the Rockefellers and Rothschilds as did the merger of their two banks. The Queen of England is also a major stockholder.
Prince Bernhard of the Dutch Royal Family is the Founding President of the World Wildlife Fund. (WWF) HRH The Duke of Edinburgh served as International President of WWF for 16 years until his retirement at the end of 1996. John H. Loudon, Better known as “the Grand Old Man of Shell”, headed Royal Dutch Shell from 1951 to 1965. He was President of WWF from 1976 to 1981.
Ruud Lubbers served three terms as Prime Minister of the Netherlands between 1982 and 1994, thus becoming the longest serving Dutch Prime Minister…. He continued in Parliament as Senior Deputy Leader, and later Parliamentary Leader of the Christian Democratic Alliance. He became President of WWF International on 1 January 2000
I kinda found a bright spot. It seems that the police tear gassed a “news” crew from Al Jazeera America. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of folks.
http://boingboing.net/2014/08/14/video-of-ferguson-police-gassi.html
Interesting perspective. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U
Nobody in the US should hang their hat on the Posse Comitatus Act as a means of preventing the military from being involved in a local situation. There is a precedent for the federal government to circumvent the PCA, although it was not in mid-America.
In 2002 I was part of a federalized National Guard task force (i.e. not under state control) deployed to the US/Candian Border to provide additional staffing at highway Ports of Entry. Some states did not participate, and southwestern states staffed the US/Mexican border. Initially the soldiers staffing these POE were unarmed, but midway through the assignment, a decision was made to arm them with 9 mm pistols. This entailed additional training and qualification with the pistol, as none of the enlisted soldiers used a pistol as an assigned weapon. Additionally, the soldiers were deputized as U.S. Marshals to avoid any potential conflicts with the PCA. Presto, soldiers in camouflage BDU’s who were also deputy U.S. Marshals returned to work at the POE.
That is at least Constitutional as long as the duty was border protection, customs and immigration control. Those are defined Federal powers. If they did that at the border between the cities of Ferguson and Florissant in St. Louis County Missouri… huge problem unless the Missouri Legislature applies to Congress to authorize federal troops to assist the State in protecting their citizens from domestic violence… but they still don’t have police powers and may not enforce any local laws unless Missouri deputized and took direct command of those troops… which was not part of the Missouri Constitution when I was still a cop there back in the dark ages of the Disco era.
Posse Comitatus was effectively repealed a few years back. I forget which bill and am too lazy to look it up right now.
One down, several hundred thousand to go.
here is a link to an article on the subject:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Civil_Liberties/Posse_Comitatus_Law.html
Thanks for the link, Gail.
What an unpleasant awakening to the reality of no meaningful limits on the USA government today !
Look on the bright side … it provides the perfect scenario for the next “Call of Duty” game …
and now on other news…..
Obama Busted: Birth Cert Contains Words/Places That Did Not Exist In 1961! African American & Kenya
4 Simple Questions from a New Jersey Attorney…
http://www.theminorityreportblog.com/2014/01/03/obama-busted-birth-cert-contains-wordsplaces-that-did-not-exist-in-1961-african-american-kenya/
Sheriff Joe Arpio’s investigation unit took the supposedly “scanned” PDF birth certificate apart and text, backgrounds, stamps, seals etc. were all on their own layers. (I would love to have a scanner that would really do that.) Rubber stamps didn’t match others from the offices that supposedly filed and issued it and the fonts were all wrong as well. Just basic document authenticity things… it’s not even a good fake. I don’t know why they even did it. His mother was a legal US citizen so as long as he renounced any other citizenship he has he is a “naturally born” US Citizen. I just find it whacked that they have to make up some complex lie instead of telling the truth. It wouldn’t make any difference if he was born in the Signing Room at Independence Hall on the Fourth of July in the middle of the fireworks display… he’s still far and away the worst leader in our country’s history.
From my fave ‘reality’ blog covering the (literally) ‘Streets of Chicago’.
Call it Michigan Avenue Blues …
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Anonymous said…
When I was a recruit in the 014th District many years ago I was taught by my FTO [Field Training Officer] to be careful to protect evidence at the scene of a police shooting and to start writing shit down and getting names etc. right away.
FTO told me I should expect someone to come out of the woodwork proclaiming to have seen the whole thing and the poleese dun’ kilt that poor boy/girl in cold blood/ Uh huh, someone was certain to accuse the police of murder and he saw the whole thing.
I was brand new and found this hard to believe but I filed that piece of training away. A year later I left the station and 5 minutes later one of my co-workers who stood right next to me at roll call called in an emergency, he shot a woman with a large pair of bloody scissors stabbing her boyfriend.
The woman was on the ground rolling around moaning and screaming. Sure as shit another democrat came out of the building and started saying he saw the whole thing, that the poleese man shot that woman in cold blood. Over and over he kept screaming.
Lucky for the officer who shot there were a number of citizens right there who gave statements that totally supported the officer. He ordered the woman to drop the scissors, the woman said the magic words, “Fuck you motherfucker, you going to have to shoot me.” And he did. The scissors attack ceased on the spot.
The guy who “saw the whole thing… in cold blood…. ” bullshit slithered away without giving his name, never to be seen again.
Very good learning experience. I never listen to witnesses screaming if the witnesses are black and the police officer is not. Even with black officers they lie. The old FTO was right, damn, everything he told me turned out to be right.
That was near 30 years ago. The woman that was shot had a hole through her liver. She took three days to expire. Witnesses, the good witnesses, gave statements to detectives and the officer was found justified. Today they are calling shootings like that genocide.
The boyfriend who was getting stabbed refused to sign complaints against his girlfriend. He was full of scissors holes too. She ended up dying and he survived. It was a lover’s quarrel. He had premature ejaculation, old girl got angry and grabbed the scissors. That is 100% the truth.
So I believe no one about Ferguson, MO. Let’s hope there is something on tape because those people as witnesses will crucify the police officer otherwise.
8/13/2014 05:28:00 PM
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so you read secondcitycop too 🙂
The style is unmistakable for the comments there. I searched to make sure, but I knew it right way.
I noticed this blurring of police and military forces in the old USSR too.
Quite an odd coincidence.
I know a Soviet era psychologist who came to the US almost 30 years ago. He says, “I have seen all this before in the USSR.”
That is why the Progressives REALLY REALLY HATE Ayn Rand she is another Toto.
As some are saying Atlas Shrugged now in Non-fiction.
Until I finally realized the implication of Stalin’s capture of Japan’s atomic bomb plant in Konan, Korea – two months before the United Nations was established on Oct 24, 1945 . . . .
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/CHAOS_and_FEAR_August_1945.pdf
I could not understand why leaders of the scientific community over – my entire research career – manipulated, hid or ignored precise experimental data that falsified:
1. von Weizsacker’s nuclear binding energy equation, and
2. The Standard Solar Model of Hydrogen-filled stars.
Unreported chaos and fear of nuclear annihilation among the winners of WWII – fueled by the warning in Aston’s 1922 Nobel Prize Lecture – seems to be the missing piece of the puzzle.
But the combined military might of nations will prove no match for the FORCE of Life:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/The_FORCE.pdf
I was warning about the militarization of the cops back in the 1990s. #hipster
Seriously, though, I was. Got called crazy right to my face. Happy to see the country might be waking up to this.
You were a lot faster to see it than I was. The Henshaw Incident was my wake-up call.
Danny Henshaw “..had worked as an undercover narcotics agent and said that this attack goes well beyond his experience as a law officer.” So they are even willing to go after their own.
They kept him and his wife under armed guard, denied him his right to legal counsel and left human feces and hog blood all over his land. The blood trail on the highway from the killed hogs is a BIG CLUE this had nothing to do with the “.. hog that supposedly tested positive for pseudorabies.” That was the ‘reason’ for the raid yet no reasonable quarrantine measures were taken. The other big clue was the disease gives you dead or weak piglets but the agents could not catch or shoot the piglets because they were way too fast.
“…Danny was released from custody in 2 hours and allowed to return to the farm where he and Cindi were controlled around the clock by armed guards from September 12th through September 22nd…. [by] 9 SUV’s and pickups, 4 wheelers, and numerous heavily armed agents ..A command center had been set up and another raid was being conducted near Farmville in Cumberland County, Virginia, at the same time…”
All this was based on a trumped up Class 2 Misdemeanor charge. And it did prove to be trumped up but the USDA needed to put the fear of God into farmers and ranchers who were opposing the National Animal Identification System.
Many more similar raids on farmers and ranchers have been carried out since then. Bundy was only the latest in a long series. That is why he became a rallying point but you won’t hear that from the MSM or the Govmint.
What a great title:
“Red Dawn” or The Dawning of Reality on Deluded Americans
I was in the USSR and observed many of the things I see in the USA today.
Nothing new here; go back to your mental caricatures of how great “Amerika” used to be…
US Army Paratroopers deployed into Detroit 1968
OPLAN Rex 84
Need more?
Current reports are most of the rioters are from Oakland Ca.
Dakota,
Communists and capitalists seem to have joined forces to save themselves and the world from possible nuclear annihilation in late August 1945, when Stalin’s USSR troops captured Japan’s atomic bomb plant at Konan, Korea.
Profiteers is a fitting name for the unholy alliance of capitalists and communists that emerged from the ruins if WWII.
I will post a link below that documents these statements.
References in this report on “The Force” will take you back to documentation on the capture of Japan’s atomic bomb plant by USSR troops in late Aug 1945:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/The_FORCE.pdf