The Arctic Is Screaming At Mark Serreze – To Shut Up

Fake Boulder scientist Mark Serreze, lying again to the fake news New York Times.

Arctic’s Winter Sea Ice Drops to Its Lowest Recorded Level – The New York Times

Serreze’ own data shows that there was less ice at the 2006 maximum, which also had the highest summer minimum. By contrast, 2012 had the highest maximum and lowest minimum. High winter maximum extent is primarily an indication that the ice is spread thin.

masie_4km_allyears_extent_sqkm.csv

Mark has a long history spreading climate BS.

Star-News – Google News Archive Search

Last year he told the ship of fools that they could sail to the North Pole.

After unusual Arctic storms, sea ice coverage in region is plummeting

In 2008, Serreze inspired Lewis Pugh to try to kayak to the North Pole.

BBC NEWS | UK | Swimmer aims to kayak to N Pole

North Pole could be ice free in 2008 | New Scientist

Serreze started his idiocy ten years ago.

Scientists: ‘Arctic Is Screaming,’ Global Warming May Have Passed Tipping Point | Fox News

There has been no trend in Arctic sea ice extent over the past decade.

Twenty-five years ago Serreze was an honest scientist, but the lure of fake global warming news funding apparently got to him.

Denver Post: Archive Results

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101 Responses to The Arctic Is Screaming At Mark Serreze – To Shut Up

  1. The great thing about the Arctic is that the public don’t go there so the public have no real idea what is going on or what is normal and natural and what is not. … and it melts each year … and in different ways so every year is another opportunity for a cheap headline from a third rate paper.

    • RAH says:

      Well if it’s just third rate papers then almost every damned one in both of our countries are third rate.
      After one watches this kind of “news for awhile a pretty predictable cycle emerges and I’m not just talking about the Arctic. “Stories” on a piece of the Antarctic ice shelf breaking off and how the great barrier reef is “dying” and drought somewhere or other, and wild fires, cycle through every year at pretty predictable intervals as if they’re new and important “news” when it’s all just redux used again and again and again.

  2. Steven Mosher says:

    Masie 4km is not suitable for comparisons year to year

    “MASIE was developed by NSIDC and NIC to fill a need for an intermediate type of product; one between operational charts and the passive microwave based Sea Ice Index. MASIE is based on the NIC IMS product and gives a daily picture of ice extent that is easy to use and available in several formats. Daily values for hemisphere-wide and regional ice extent are made available in an Excel file of extent values and archived imagery is available for the complete data set. MASIE gives a quick picture of ice extent that is more accurate than the daily Sea Ice Index product and allows users to compare day-to-day changes in extent values. However, in general, it would not be appropriate to compare a recent MASIE extent value to one more than a few weeks old because the data sources and analysts NIC uses may have changed.”

    You used MASIE to compare 2006 with current values.

    Bad Goddard.

    • tonyheller says:

      Did Lewis Pugh make it to the North Pole in 2008?

      • Margaret Smith says:

        Lewis Pugh –
        Of course not – only about 25-30 miles before getting hopelessly stuck in the ice. He had to be rescued and the BBC didn’t seem to notice so no fanfare..

        • RAH says:

          Nor did they notice that he suffered chillblains of his posterior and had he not quit when he did would have certainly suffered more severe cold injury.
          And then there is Rosie Stancer, a gutsy little fireball who is still trying to become the first woman to make it to the geographical north pole after having lost two toes to frostbite in her first attempt in 2007. She already did the S. Pole trek solo.

      • Jim Hunt says:

        Irrelevant Goddard!

        • AndyG55 says:

          Yes, you are irrelevant, Jimbo.

          but we still have to counter all you LIES and MIS-INFORMATION.

          Does CIS have any records of whole of Artic multi-year sea ice , Jimbo?,

          You never did manage to get up the courage to answer that question, did you, little yellow-back troll.

    • Gator says:

      data sources analysis may have changed…

      No shit Sherlock, and that is part of the problem, cherry picking of data and analysis.

    • RAH says:

      What would be the logical reason for changing the basis input of sources and analysis of a data base so that it’s history cannot be compared to it’s current output and thus is worthless for comparison to it’s own results that are “more than a few weeks old”?

      If what Mosher says is true then funding for this corrupted and thus worthless metric should be terminated immediately.

    • NSIDC also say that “MASIE is the more accurate product”

      http://nsidc.org/data/docs/noaa/g02135_seaice_index/#accuracy_precision

      The simple fact is that both MASIE and NSIDC’s Sea Ice Index have large error margins, and cannot be totally relied upon.

      Bad Mosher

      • Jim Hunt says:

        Not a lot of people know that NSIDC actually said that:

        “MASIE resolves the ice edge with greater precision and accuracy, but it is not a long and consistently processed record”

        • AndyG55 says:

          At the end of point 6 on the MASSIE page

          “Yet, for tracking the response of Arctic and Antarctic sea ice to changing climate, the passive microwave data sets that the Sea Ice Index relies on are a good choice. ”

          Go eat another sock, yellow-back .

        • Jim Hunt says:

          Thanks for reinforcing my point for me Andy.

    • AndyG55 says:

      How’s the used car business at Berkley, going , Mosh

      Still getting the huge “anonymous” donations each year to FAKE the temperature data ?

    • Ron Clutz says:

      Mosher provides an obsolete quote as though it is eternally true. When NSIDC made the dataset publicly available, they said:
      “In June 2014, we decided to make the MASIE product available back to 2006. This was done in response to a large volume of user requests, and because the IMS product output, upon which MASIE is based, appeared to be reasonably consistent through time.”
      The following year Walt Meier published a paper in which he compared MASIE and his own SII (Sea Ice Index).

    • Louis Hooffstetter says:

      Moshpit, this is another example of the drive-by commenting that has made you infamous here and at WUWT.

      Stop keeping us in suspense.
      Tell us.
      What is the best way to compare sea ice from year to year?

      • griff says:

        There are multiple people measuring extent.

        And ALL of them show a continued decline in extent.

        and the volume measures also show decline….

        • AndyG55 says:

          They don’t all show a decline ,

          And even if there is a decline its just a RECOVERY from the extreme levels of the late 1970’s

          Arctic sea ice was often summer sea ice free for the 8000 years of the current interglacial before the LIA, which was the coldest period in 10,000 years.

          And no , we are not talking about the Eemian, that was 130,000 years ago, something seem to be very confused about.

          • Sunsettommy says:

            Andy,

            Griff keeps ignoring this inconvenient fact,since it doesn’t fit with their, Doom is around the corner narrative.

            A definite sign of a cultist.

      • Jim Hunt says:

        Louis – At the risk of (repeating myself)^n, n → ∞

        Read my interview with Walt Meier.

        • AndyG55 says:

          No risk, everybody ignores that SCAM/CON web site.

          If you want anyone to read, you have to link to facts, not to the sewer.

          That CON site is known to be nothing but a baseless load of PROPAGANDA MIS-REPRESENTATION and LIES.

          ABSOLUTELY NOTHING there can be trusted to represent the TRUTH.

          It is run by a snivelling , cowardly AGW trough swilling scientifically illiterate moron, who has absolutely zero respect for climate history.

          The site is a LIE from start to finish.

  3. RAH says:

    It’s got to be true! I mean there are even soldiers falling through the ice.

    Now doesn’t this Cold Weather Survival training look life fun? For those that haven’t been in really cold water like that, it hurts!
    “Soldiers from the 173rd Airborne Brigade and Latvian soldiers conduct winter survival training during Operation Atlantic Resolve, Jan. 26, 2017. (Latvian Land Force photo by Normunds Me”

  4. Andy says:

    That title made me laugh, good one Tony. :)

    Andy

  5. GeologyJim says:

    Serreze seems to be in a state of perpetual exclamation-points!!!

    There’s a dreadful comic strip (originated by Ernie Bushmiller, now done by others) in which the title character “Nancy” expresses surprise or anger with beads of sweat exploding from her head. For example,

    http://www.gocomics.com/nancy-classics/2016/10/11

    Perfect image of little Mark

  6. griff says:

    This shows record low sea ice:
    http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/

    and this:
    https://seaice.uni-bremen.de/sea-ice-concentration/
    (see time series)

    and this
    http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php
    (on a slightly different basis)

    and this:
    https://ads.nipr.ac.jp/vishop/#/extent

    you can get satellite photos which confirm the edge of the sea ice is where shown here:
    https://seaice.uni-bremen.de/data/amsr2/today/Arctic_AMSR2_nic.png

    Or here:
    https://www7320.nrlssc.navy.mil/hycomARC/navo/arcticictnnowcast.gif

    and there’s evidence also of low area volume/mass

    • Robert Austin says:

      So Griff, does it look like the Arctic is “screaming”? Still a heck of a lot of ice up there no matter which group measures it.

    • gator69 says:

      So what? Why do you care Griff Reaper? Nobody is dying because of any alleged low ice records.

      People are dying because of CAGWBS hucksters like you.

      These were the bad projects. As you might see the bottom of the list was climate change. This offends a lot of people, and that’s probably one of the things where people will say I shouldn’t come back, either. And I’d like to talk about that, because that’s really curious. Why is it it came up? And I’ll actually also try to get back to this because it’s probably one of the things that we’ll disagree with on the list that you wrote down.

      The reason why they came up with saying that Kyoto — or doing something more than Kyoto — is a bad deal is simply because it’s very inefficient. It’s not saying that global warming is not happening. It’s not saying that it’s not a big problem. But it’s saying that what we can do about it is very little, at a very high cost. What they basically show us, the average of all macroeconomic models, is that Kyoto, if everyone agreed, would cost about 150 billion dollars a year. That’s a substantial amount of money. That’s two to three times the global development aid that we give the Third World every year. Yet it would do very little good. All models show it will postpone warming for about six years in 2100. So the guy in Bangladesh who gets a flood in 2100 can wait until 2106. Which is a little good, but not very much good. So the idea here really is to say, well, we’ve spent a lot of money doing a little good.

      And just to give you a sense of reference, the U.N. actually estimate that for half that amount, for about 75 billion dollars a year, we could solve all major basic problems in the world. We could give clean drinking water, sanitation, basic healthcare and education to every single human being on the planet. So we have to ask ourselves, do we want to spend twice the amount on doing very little good? Or half the amount on doing an amazing amount of good? And that is really why it becomes a bad project. It’s not to say that if we had all the money in the world, we wouldn’t want to do it. But it’s to say, when we don’t, it’s just simply not our first priority.

      http://www.ted.com/talks/bjorn_lomborg_sets_global_priorities/transcript?language=en

      How is it that you don’t get it Griff Reaper?

      • griff says:

        I see ‘reliable energy at home’ and ‘a good education’ in your list…

        Now, the solar LED programme in Africa nad Asia is giving millions of people reliable lighting, reducing fuel poverty because the y don’t need to buy kerosene and enabling kids to study at night.

        That’s a renewable energy programme, related to fighting climate change.

        Nobody is losing out because we spend money on climate research or climate change mitigation

        I wonder: do you campaign for US arms spending to be diverted to foreign aid?

        For more US foreign aid directly to the people you claim to be so concerned about?

        • AndyG55 says:

          “I see ‘reliable energy at home’ and ‘a good education’ in your list…”

          Poor griff. …. Your granny pays for the first.

          … and you missed out completely on the second

        • Gator says:

          US arms expenditures have a purpose that is beneficial to the free people of this planet.

          Nice try at diverting attention from your genocide Ms Griff.

          Your team is extinguishing tens of thousands every day for no good reason whatsoever.

          You may note that not even Lomborg attacked national defense.

          Ms Griff, you are the absolute bottom of the barrel of humanity, and you seem to be proud of that fact.

          Would you do anything differently if it was your family that was being starved to death by alarmists?

          Genocide Jim is too cowardly to answer this dimple question. How about you? Care to show your real colors Griff Reaper.

    • AndyG55 says:

      And still the absolute DENIAL of pre-LIA sea ice levels being MUCH LOWER.

      griff , Climate Change DENIER #2.

      • griff says:

        At some point – e.g. the Eemian – yes, arctic sea ice was enormously lower.

        but as I keep telling you that is utterly irrelevant to now, because the conditions which produced that low are not now in effect – it was down to a Milankovitch cycle.

        Absent the orbital effect, why is ice retreating now and how much?

        • AndyG55 says:

          poor griff the fool is mixed up between Eemian and Holocene.

          Keep displaying you brainless abject ignorance, griff ..

          Its funny ! :-)

        • Sunsettommy says:

          No Griff, it was due to the massive shift to the Interglacial time was why it was so warm,then it lasted for around 6,000 years, when it begins to start the cooling down.

          You are so confused as you completely left out the HOLOCENE,which is the name of the current interglacial. The Eemian was the PREVIOUS interglacial period,which was definitely warmer than this one, we are in now. Greenland melted down quite a bit then,but barely loss mass in the current interglacial period.

          There was little ice in the early part of the Holocence,BECAUSE it was a lot warmer than today. Gosh Humans manage to survive all that heat,even had a powerful nations like Egypt live through it. Large civilization in the region where Sahara desert is now.

          The current Arctic ice pack is much larger than the average for the Holocene,which you have been shown numerous times. Do keep ignoring it any more!

      • AndyG55 says:

        You have no idea about history , do you.

        Arctic sea ice was much lower between 10000 and about 8000 years ago, during the current interglacial. Nothing to do with the Milankovitch effect.

        Why are you continually yapping about an event 130,000 years ago.

        You are one seriously CONFUSED little amoeba. !

  7. Jl says:

    So in other words it’s not global, as in “global warming”?

    • griff says:

      Its global, but more pronounced in the arctic

      • AndyG55 says:

        No warming in the Antarctic.

        NO WARMING ANYWHERE that is not influenced by El Nino or ocean cycles.

        No CO2 warming signal anywhere except in FAIRY-TALES.

      • Sunsettommy says:

        No Griff, warming has been mostly confined to the NORTHERN Hemisphere.

        Southern Hemisphere near zero change over last few decades.

        Wonder why the dreamed up CO2 warming effect, works in only half the world?

  8. Andy DC says:

    How does anyone determine what is a good climate or a bad climate, the right climate or the wrong climate? All we really know is that there have been multiple Ice Ages in the past with a 100% natural climate as well as significantly warmer weather in the past with a 100% natural climate.

    The planet thrived in the times of warmer climate, but barely survived the Ice Ages. If there is some small component of warming from a trace gas, isn’t it better to err on the side of a warmer climate? Kind of an insurance policy against an Ice Age, or so it would seem.

    • Latitude says:

      I could not agree with that more….

    • Gail Combs says:

      Colder climate = lots of deserts.

      • RAH says:

        Gail don’t you have a larger more detailed map of the US during the height of the last glacial? I seem to remember you posted one before and as I recall it showed much of the US SE to be savannah.

      • Gail Combs says:

        Yes RAH

        link

        • Gail Combs says:

          Description:
          “At the most extreme stage of the last glaciation, most of Canada and much of the northern USA were covered by an ice sheet thousands of metres in thickness. Colder and often drier than present conditions predominated across most of the USA. The eastern deciduous and conifer forests were replaced by more open conifer woodlands with cooler-climate species of pines and a large component of spruce. The open spruce woodland and parkland extended somewhat further west than present, into what is now the prairie zone. As a result of aridity and lowering of sea level (which lowered inland water tables), much of Florida was covered by drifting sand dunes. Notably moister than present conditions occurred across much of the south-west, with open conifer woodlands and scrub common in areas that are now semi-desert.
          link

    • Gail Combs says:

      Warmer climate = lot less deserts and people and animals areas now equitorial desert http://www.world-science.net/othernews/080814_sahara.htm

      • griff says:

        That does not follow.

        • AndyG55 says:

          ie griff does not understand in the very least..

          just like everything else.

        • RAH says:

          It’s easy griff. During periods of glaciation much more water is locked up in ice. Sea levels were at least 394 feet (120 m) lower than today. You could walk across what is now the English channel and not get your feet wet and people actually lived there. Same with what is now called “the inland sea” between Korea and Japan.

          With so much surface water locked into ice, what would you expect to happen?

        • Gail Combs says:

          It is real simple Griff.

          Cold = BAD

          Warm = GOOD

          A really interesting document is the 1974 CIA report:
          “A Study of Climatological Research as it Pertains to Intelligence Problems”

          Pg 7
          In 1972 the Intelligence Community was faced with two issues concerning climatology:

          * No methodologies available to alert policymakers of adverse climatic change

          * No tools to assess the economic and political impact of such a change.

          “… Since 1972 the grain crisis has intensified…. Since 1969 the storage of grain has decreased from 600 million metric tons to less than 100 million metric tons – a 30 day supply… many governments have gone to great lengths to hide their agricultural predicaments from other countries as well as from their own people…

          pg 9
          The archaeologists and climatotologists document a rather grim history… There is considerable evidence that these empires may not have been undone by barbarian invaders but by climatic change…. has tied several of these declines to specific global cool periods, major and minor, that affected global atmospheric circulation and brought wave upon wave of drought to formerly rich agricultural lands.

          Refugees from these collapsing civilizations were often able to migrate to better lands… This would be of little comfort however,… The world is too densely populated and politically divided to accommodate mass migration.

          Page 18 talks of coming glaciation.
          Scientists are confident that unless man is able to effectively modify the climate, the northern regions… will again be covered with 100 to 200 feet of ice and snow. That this will occur within the nexy 2,500 years they are quite positive; that it may occur sooner is open to speculation.

          page 22 states:
          The climate of the 1800s was far less favorable for agriculture in most areas of the world. In the United States during that century, the midwest grain-producing areas were cooler and wetter and snow lines of the Russian steppes lasted for longer periods of time. More extended periods of drought were noted in the areas of the Soviet Union now known as the new lands. More extensive monsoon failures were common around the world, affecting in particular China, the Philippines and the Indian Subcontinent.

          The Wisconsin analysis questions whether a return to these climate conditions could support a population that has grown from 1.1 billion in 1850 to 3.75 billion in 1970. The Wisconsin group predicted that the climate could not support the world’s population since technology offers no immediate solution. Further world grain reserves currently amount to less than one month; thus any delay in supplies implies mass starvation. They also contended that new crop strains could not be developed over night… Moreover they observed that agriculture would become even more energy dependent in a world of declining resources.

          A look at rise and fall of empires and Bond events (Temperature spikes) Of Time and Temperatures

          This is a temperature chart with human civilizations marked.

          • RAH says:

            Cold is bad not only because of cold causing dryer times and requiring more energy use by humans, but also because colder times are stormier times. The greater the contrast in temperature between the relatively stable tropical zone and the poles, the stormier it will be.

    • griff says:

      There is no good or bad climate – there is just climate.

      but the climate that there is may be better or worse for humanity as a whole or certain regions…

      • AndyG55 says:

        More incoherent meaningless garbage, as usual from griff. !!

        • David A says:

          Griff, seriously and completely inane comment. You really consider an ice-age just another weather pattern?

          Shown overwhelming evidence you persist in your CAGW delusion. Is Islam Just another religion?

          • Griff says:

            No.

            but there isn’t going to be another ice age for thousands of years.

            You have evidence to the contrary?

            (and how will you map progress of the coming ice age if Trump cancelled all the observations of temps and sea ice?)

      • SteveKeohane says:

        Up to this point in time, I assumed you to be an ill-informed human. Now, I can only assume you are a poorly programed bot, a set of code on a computer. No human is as stupid as you pretend to be.

        • Sunsettommy says:

          There are others even worse than this one out there,I have met them in forum websites.

          Facebook is full of these morons,who are so bad that I quit going there to avoid the arrant nonsense.

        • Colorado Wellington says:

          You should acknowledge the positives, Steve. The simplicity of her code makes her very robust, inert and impenetrable.

  9. Anonymous Commentator says:

    Betteridge’s law of headlines is one name for an adage that states: “Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines

  10. Andy says:

    More comments on the Antarctic please considering the record longest melt season ever and now the very slow increase in ice since the minima

    Andy

    • RAH says:

      Soooo. You only want comments about melting. Got Ya! Less than two years and six months ago a new high for Antarctic sea ice was set.
      https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-new-record-maximum

      Did you think that was indicative of something then?

    • AndyG55 says:

      A paper released recently identified 4-5 year cycles in both Arctic an Antarctic for sea ice. (memory 4.5 yr in Arctic and 5.3 in Antarctic)

      I thought I had bookmarked the paper or reference, but can’t find it.

      The Arctic is also heavily affected by the AMO and the end of warming out of the LIA.

      Both the 4-5 year cycles are currently at their low point.

      The large El Nino has also had a significant effect on both, with a large pool of warmer water heading down to the Antarctic.

      All this energy brought from the ocean will gradually dissipate out to space, a massive loss of energy from the Earth’s system.

      The question over the next several years will be if the current sleepy sun has the ‘oomph’ to recharge that energy.

      If not, then the many cooling predictions we have been seeing recently, will certainly become true.

    • Jim Hunt says:

      Need I say more?

      • AndyG55 says:

        You could admit to the fact that the current levels of sea ice are FAR higher than the first 3/4+ of the current interglacial.

        But you will ALWAYS LIE by omission, won’t you silmeboy.

        Jimbo the LIAR = climate change DENIER #1 !!

      • AndyG55 says:

        You KNOW what caused that.

        You KNOW this is absolutely nothing to do with ANY human effect, and is a totally natural ocean current warming event, linked to the totally natural El Nino.

        Why don’t you say so.

        Why are you CONSTANTLY DENYING TOTALLY NATURAL OCCURANCES ??

        Do you STILL DENY that Acrtic sea ice levels are FAR higher than the first 3/4 of the Holocene?????

        Come on Jimbo, you yellow-backed snotty troll.

        I DARE YOU TO ADMIT THIS TRUTH !!

  11. Jim Hunt says:

    Tony – At the risk of (repeating myself)^n, n → ∞

    http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2016/02/dmi-masie-and-the-sea-ice-index-an-interview-with-walt-meier/

    “Since the quantity and quality of [MASIE] data varies the time series will not be consistent over time.”

    Why do you continue to use operational data for non operational purposes?

    • AndyG55 says:

      Why do you continue to yap like a drunken Chihuahua, Jimbo?

    • AndyG55 says:

      ““In June 2014, we decided to make the MASIE product available back to 2006. This was done in response to a large volume of user requests, and because the IMS product output, upon which MASIE is based, appeared to be reasonably consistent through time.””

      Read, and eat your socks again, Jimbo

    • gator69 says:

      Why do you continue to starve poor brown people Genocide Jim?

      If alarmists were starving your family to death, would your website look any different?

  12. Jim Hunt says:

    Some actual facts regarding Northabout and Sir David Hempleman-Adams “sailing to the North Pole”:

    http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2016/09/could-northabout-sail-to-the-north-pole/

    “Actual facts aren’t sufficient to stop Tony Heller suggesting that Andrew Freedman suggested on Mashable that Mark Serreze of the NSIDC said that such a feat is feasible”!

    • gator69 says:

      At the risk of repeating myself…

      • gator69 says:

        The world has spoken…

      • Jim Hunt says:

        Tony apparently, since he mentioned it in the article above.

        • gator69 says:

          Genocide Jim, Tony is working tirelesly to undo the damage your murderous team is doing. Tony is doing the exact opposite of you, not becvauase he care about ice, but because he cares about truth and humans.

          Nobody would give one rat’s ass about the Arctic, if they knew the truth that you and yours are working so desperately to hide. The truth about your body count, and the truth about natural cycles.

          Here is what the world thinks about climate change. Why are you a sick hateful freak?

    • AndyG55 says:

      Jimbo’s great big slimy CON yet again.

      Every body is LAUGHING at you Jimbo.

    • AndyG55 says:

      Actual FACTS that show the Arctic sea ice is FAR above the Holocene norm, are not going to stop Jimbo making an absolute TOOL of himself.

      How does it feel to be constantly USED by your Exeter Uni boyfriends, Jimbo.

      I bet you like it.

    • AndyG55 says:

      If you want anyone to read, you have to link to facts, not to the sewer.

      That CON site is known to be nothing but a baseless load of propaganda MIS-REPRESENTATION and LIES.

      NOTHING there can be trusted to represent the TRUTH.

    • gator69 says:

      21,000 starved to death again!

    • AndyG55 says:

      No it is not, Arctic sea was FAR lower before the LIA, often summer sea ice free.

      ..why do you insist on looking at a piddlingly short time period still warming out of the COLDEST PERIOD in the last 10,000 years.

      Is it your continued WILFUL GROSS IGNORANCE…

      Is it that you totally DENY Climate Change and climate history ?

      I very much doubt that ANYONE wants to go back to the LIA., griff…

      … yet you use it as your reference period, 1979 was up there with that coldest of periods for sea ice extent.

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