NSIDC Losing Their Ice Cubes

NSIDC shows no ice north of Barrow, AK.

N_20180817_extn_hires_v3.0.png (1461×1740)

But visible satellite imagery shows lots of ice (red) there.

NASA Imagery

Unlike the fraudsters at NSIDC, the Danish Meteorological Institute correctly shows the ice.

DMI Modelled ice thickness

I’ve also observed that NSIDC shows the edge of the ice consistently further back than satellite imagery shows.  But when small fractions of a percent make for large differences in propaganda value, NSIDC consistently sides with the needs of propagandists.

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46 Responses to NSIDC Losing Their Ice Cubes

  1. Disillusioned says:

    Disillusionment is a good thing.

  2. Patricia Roess says:

    The US Naval Center has a great display of the arctic ice – much better than others.
    Link: https://www.natice.noaa.gov/Main_Products.htm
    I check it every day – from August 21 to 22 there was nice ice gain.
    Attached is the US Naval Center map of August 17.

  3. Phil. says:

    Unlike the fraudsters at NSIDC, the Danish Meteorological Institute correctly shows the ice.

    Here’s DMI’s seaice for today:
    http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icedrift_anim/plots/satcon.arc.d-00.png

    • Anon says:

      If you don’t believe in any of the reporting services. Here is a first hand account of that ice mass:

      VOYAGE TO THE NORTH POLE (2018)
      Day 57
      Road to the South
      It’s the 57th day, we are 1/3 of the complete route.
      In addition to the large ice cap impractical Pruddhoe Bay that made us lose a month, the last ten days, the wind does not give us a gift (face and a big negative drift) and especially for the 10 days to come, the trend will not reverse. Not to mention that we no longer see seals (to fill our pantry): our margin of safety visibly melts!
      Winter is coming and by the end of September, the game will change and the consequences can be serious in this part of the world!
      So yesterday, after consultation and reflection, we decided to turn around before we could not. At this stage, we could continue but we prefer to return ourselves to civilization rather than risk being saved, that we do not want!

      https://www.sebroubinet.eu/la-voie-du-pole_nouvelles.html

    • spike55 says:

      OMG you are an idiot. !

      That chart only shows the 15% or more

      Look at their Thickness chart, bonehead !!

      http://polarportal.dk/fileadmin/polarportal/sea/CICE_map_thick_LA_EN_20180821.png

  4. Griff says:

    Utter nonsense

    You are comparing apples and pears again. The satellites and grid sizes and even whether data is current or a trailing average varies between the different imaging of the sea ice. Is NSIDC extent on same basis as DMI? I don’t think so.

    check out NSIDC grid size and the 15% extent cut off…

    Lets point out the problems with the DMI thickness chart as regards ice/no ice…

    the DMI thickness chart notes how:
    “The thickness of the ice shown is calculated by means of the HYCOM-CICE model of sea ice at DMI” – i.e. it is a model.

    It does not match the DMI extent chart… it clearly shows ice where the satellite image shows none!

    You need to concentrate on the overall picture:
    Extent 5th lowest for the date, still melting , heading for 4th lowest
    The very unusual ice lift off from N Greenland coast, with Lincoln Sea formerly thick ice fragmented
    That the Svalbard sea ice area shows a record low.
    That the Laptev Sea shows an extraordinary low
    That compared to 2012 and years since the DMI thickness chart this year shows no 3m and thicker ice for august 22nd

    Really, anyone would think you are trying to misrepresent the situation. And your measurements are complete crap.

    • spike55 says:

      Great title for you post, griff.

      It is UTTER NONSENSE..

      That is all you ever have.

      Arctic sea ice is still in the top 10% of the last 10,000 years.,

      DMI thickness matches Russian and Natice maps.

      Sea ice volume hasn’t changed much for over a decade

      And there is absolutely NOTHING your PETULANT IGNORANCE and CLIMATE CHANGE DENIAL can do about it

      Your COMPLETE and UTTER DESPERATION is showing, griff. :-)

      And its bloody HILARIOUS :-) :-) :-)

      Go and wet your bed elsewhere, child-troll. !!

    • Gator says:

      Ms Griff thinks NSIDC outputs are not modeled.

      Stupid and evil go together like interglacials and melting ice.

    • Squidly says:

      Hahaha .. I just laugh

      You’re still talking about ICE! … there isn’t supposed to be any ice!!!

      Hahaha … rolling on the floor laughing my freaking ass off….

      Such idiocracy!

    • spike55 says:

      Hey griff, did you know that the Arctic sea ice extent will bottom out this year at 20+ times the area of the UK?

      I know you remain DELIBERATELY IGNORANT about the FACT that the extent is also in the top 10% or less of the last 10,000 years.

      Why do you continue to DENY CLIMATE CHANGE, griff ?

    • MrGrimNasty says:

      “The very unusual ice lift off from N Greenland coast, with Lincoln Sea formerly thick ice fragmented.”

      Aberrant nonsense. It blew out, leaving some fragments. It did not fragment. The amount of ice did not change. This was a weather event, that despite claims, is not that unusual, and just a result of a less common wind direction – just like getting E instead of SW in the UK.

      “You are comparing apples and pears again. The satellites and grid sizes and even whether data is current or a trailing average varies between the different imaging of the sea ice. ”

      Yes, which applies to your attempt (which was wrong anyway because you seem unable to interpret long/lat lines at a steep angle) claiming your sat. shot showed no ice where DMI did (it didn’t).

      etc. etc.

      Everything you say is junk or merely 2 sides of the same truth.

    • Caleb Shaw says:

      Griff,

      The three fellows on the iceboat-catamaran camped on sea-ice too small for satellites to see. Various views each have various limitations. Tony is pointing out a limitation you should make yourself aware of if you desire a clear view of what is occurring.

      Whaling ships risked sailing north of Alaska in the late 1800’s when whales grew scarce further south. Those ships could pick their way through scattered bergs in the summer, but wanted to avoid the re freeze because even a slushy skim of new ice could bog down and trap a whaler. There is a great tale of a group of ships staying too late, and all the crews traveling over ice to the coast to Alaska and then all heading west along the coast to be rescued by other whalers. Not a single life was lost. But the important thing to note is there was open water north of Alaska 140 years ago.

    • Anon says:

      If anyone has been observing Griff’s comments over the past few months, they all involve “moving the goal posts” or arguing about some trivial discrepancy. Which is not really indicative of anything of anything real or concrete.

      However, what is indicative is the the fact the CAGW community is finally being required to defend itself and it’s projections and predictions.

      Who would have thought, even five years ago, that members of the CAGW community would be in the “minority” and actually find the need to be madly posting on websites like RCS and WUWT to shore up it’s positions?

      My guess is that it will get even worse. As the political winds change and the vision of globalization and global government evaporates, the need for a uniting cause like CAGW will no longer exist. And once that goes, CAGW will join all the other environmental scares (Population Bomb, Peak Oil, New Ice Age, etc.) in the dust bin of history.

      *BTW: The change is actually occurring in the sciences as I write this, where it is no longer necessary (and even detrimental at times) to tie in a research grant proposal to some aspect of CAGW. Back in the Obama Era it was practically essential to do that, no matter how remote and tenuous the connection. That is progress!

  5. Lasse says:

    “Due to heavier than normal ice concentrations in the Canadian arctic waters north of 70 degrees, the Canadian Coast Guard, recommends that pleasure craft do not navigate in the Beaufort Sea, Barrow, Peel Sound, Franklin Strait and Prince Regent. CCG icebreakers cannot safely escort”

    This sailing season is over for those who tried NW passage without ice breaking capacity.

    • spike55 says:

      Heck , the ones that tried from the west only managed to get part ways along the Alaskan coast, and may be lucky to get back out again as they turn tail and run !!

      And any that snuck through with the ice breaker from the east, could easily find themselves wintering in Cambridge Bay.

  6. Stewart Pid says:

    All of the arctic sailing expeditions are turning tail and running for safety because of the ice that the Griffturd sez isn’t there.
    One of the boats tried to get through the NW passage and is now stuck in the ice, unable to move ahead or retreat & that boats fate was one of the reasons the Dogbark retreated.
    Of course the boards resident ice expert / troll sez that the ice trapping the boat isn’t there and all reports of ice are utter nonsense. I would love to send the little Brit shit to the arctic to experience real cold in real life. The Dogbark crew was surprised to wake up to snow falling and snow covering their boat on August 21st which just goes to show that like Grifftard they really don’t know the arctic and the change that sets in about the first week of August. Big snow forecast for the Canuck Rockies in the Banff – Jasper area over the next several days as old man winter gives us a taste of what is to come.
    One last thought … I still remember Susan Crockford giving NSIDC shit for showing no ice in a spot where radio collared polar bears could be seen to be hunting for seals on the ice … and yet Griffiepoo still believes the alarmist lies of no ice and spouts nonsenses, utter nonsense. Griff could have an icicle hanging off his nose and still be marching in the GLO-BULL warming parades.

    • Griff says:

      It absolutely isn’t… coming from somebody who is not a polar bear scientist, does no fieldwork involving them and has not published on polar bear populations.

      Besides this isn’t a one off this year – the lift off happened also in February. And will happen again.

      Meanwhile the sea ice in the area of Svalbard and north of it is at the lowest on record… what chance do any bears on the ice have of reaching Svalbard for denning over the winter? Slim or non-existent.

      • Griff, none of the points you make matter because all one has to do is read. I can and I do (clearly you don’t). I know the polar bear literature: clearly you don’t.

        Polar bears do not den in northern Greenland. Come back and tell us when and where you find evidence I’m wrong on that.

        Doesn’t matter what the ice is, or is not, doing: polar bears do not den in northern Greenland.

        The zoologist with the Ph.D.

      • Gator says:

        Ms Griff, Dr Crockford is infinitely more than qualified to speak on polar bears than you, and you have zero idea of what a “polar bear scientist” is…

        How did you come to be a polar bear scientist?

        Where possible, from my early high school days, I tried to select courses that include zoology-based work. This is easier in university where there is more flexibility in the courses you can take. My undergraduate degree was in biology, but the courses I chose were more focused on animals, behavior, evolution, physiology, and ecology and less focused on microbiology, biochemistry, cells, and human health. However, polar bear scientists study many different aspects of physiology, behavior, and health and a variety of biological disciplines can contribute meaningfully to research on these animals. I would also recommend including a good mix of statistics and GIS (geographic information system) courses in your undergraduate work if you have the option. Both of these skill sets are highly valuable in any sort of wildlife research. When I was in school, GIS wasn’t nearly as prevalent as it is now … and I wish I had done more of it earlier in my education!

        https://polarbearsinternational.org/news/article-research/becoming-a-polar-bear-scientist/

        Susan Janet Crockford (born 1954) is a Canadian zoologist, author, and blogger specializing in Holocene mammals. She is currently an adjunct professor in Anthropology at the University of Victoria.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_J._Crockford

        Now stop lying about Dr Crockford. You will continue to lie about everything else, but maybe you can stop your misogynistic attacks against another woman.

      • Anon says:

        Another lie from Griff: Meanwhile the sea ice in the area of Svalbard and north of it is at the lowest on record…

        Monthly Weather Review of Oct 1922.

        ‘The Arctic seems to be warming up, states George Nicolas Ifft American consul at Bergen, Norway. “ …. fishermen, seal hunters, and explores who sail the seas about Spitsbergen (Svalbard) and the eastern Arctic, all point to a radical change in climatic conditions, and hitherto unheard-of high temperatures……

        In August, 1922, the Norwegian Department of Commerce sent an expedition to Spitsbergen and Bear Island under Dr. Adolf Hoel, lecturer on geology at the University of Christiania. The oceanographic observations (reported that) Ice conditions were exceptional. In fact, so little ice has never before been noted. The expedition all but established a record, sailing as far north as 81o29′ in ice-free water. This is the farthest north ever reached with modern oceanographic apparatus…..

        In connection with Dr. Hoel’s report…note the unusually warm summer in Arctic Norway and observations of Capt. Martin Ingebrigtsen, who sailed the eastern Arctic for 54 years past. He first noted warmer conditions in 1918, since that time it has steadily gotten warmer, to-day the Arctic of that region is not recognizable as the same region of 1868 to 1917.

        Many old landmarks are so changed as to be unrecognisable. Where formerly great masses of ice were found, there are now often moraines, accumulations of earth and stones. At many points where glaciers formerly extended far into the sea they have entirely disappeared.

        The change in temperature, says Captain Ingebrigtsen, has also brought about great change in the flora and fauna of the Arctic. This summer he sought for white fish in Spitsbergen waters (where) formerly great shoals were found. This year he saw none, although he visited all the old fishing grounds.

        There were few seal in Spitzbergen waters , the catch being far under average. This did not surprise the captain. He pointed out that formerly the waters about Spitzbergen held an even summer temperature of about 3o Celsius; this year recorded temperatures up to 15o, and last winter the ocean did not freeze over even on the north coast of Spitsbergen.”

        https://judithcurry.com/2013/04/10/historic-variations-in-arctic-sea-ice-part-ii-1920-1950/

        • Gator says:

          Correction:

          “… held an even summer temperature of about 3 Celsius; this year recorded temperatures up to 15.”

          150C would definitely melt some ice!

        • Phil. says:

          In August, 1922, the Norwegian Department of Commerce sent an expedition to Spitsbergen and Bear Island under Dr. Adolf Hoel, lecturer on geology at the University of Christiania. The oceanographic observations (reported that) Ice conditions were exceptional. In fact, so little ice has never before been noted. The expedition all but established a record, sailing as far north as 81o29′ in ice-free water. This is the farthest north ever reached with modern oceanographic apparatus…..

          That was the record back in the 20’s it’s beyond that now.

          • Anon says:

            This is the farthest north ever reached with modern oceanographic apparatus…..

            Yes, they can even get modern oceanographic apparatus (of even higher quality today) to 90 degrees North in almost any season to boot…

          • spike55 says:

            Ice above Iceland, Phil….. Actual observations.

            See the big spike in the mid-late 1970s.

            Up there with the Little Ice Age.

            See the big dip from around 1910 – mid 1970s

            Get some PERSPECTIVE, bonehead.

          • Phil. says:

            Here’s some actual data for the area under discussion, (0 – 40ºE, 72 – 85ºN):
            http://polarview.met.no/Statistics/graphs/osisaf_season_plot_latest.png

            Note that the current value is well below the minimum since 1981.
            Here’s the temperature history:
            https://arctic-prcc.met.no/sites/arctic-prcc.met.no/files/images/mosj_temp.jpeg

          • spike55 says:

            “Note that the current value is well below the minimum since 1981”

            SO WHAT. !!!

            The late 1970s was an extreme outlier, apart from the Little Ice Age

            What is so difficult for you to comprehend, moron. !!

            And what problem does a little less sea ice above Svalbard create for ANYONE ..
            .. especially when its because the prevailing winds have bunched it all up in the East Siberia and Canadian Archipelago regions.

          • Gator says:

            Note that my current age is well above what it was in 1981.

            Shocking! LOL

      • spike55 says:

        “coming from somebody who is not a polar bear scientist”

        You are a deceitful LIAR, griff.

    • Colorado Wellington says:

      Heh. World-famous polar bear expert Ms Griff is reduced to defending Wadhams and attacking Crockford.

      What’s not to like?

      • Anon says:

        Colorado: That is so funny. It made my day. What Griff spouts and posts is so easily to fact check, you would think that might give him pause. Now he is in it thick with Susan Crockford. That has to be the best take down of the year. Just hilarious!

        *My guess is that Griff has no idea who she is.

        • sunsettommy says:

          Anon,

          he was told many times last year WHO Dr. Crockford is, he is just being his typical self in avoiding it to maintain his slanderous statements against her.

          Otter over at WUWT gave him a smashing takedown over it last year.

          • Anon says:

            What is Griff doing commenting WUWT? That to me is unbelievable and indicates a loose screw. I am basic scientist but I don’t feel comfortable commenting over there because climate is not my field. At WUWT, I read and try to learn and not gum up the discussion for authors who are trying to get well considered feedback for what they publish (Monckton most recently). At least here, I can follow what Tony is doing because it is a combination of statistics, historical research and common sense.

            (face palm)

          • Griff says:

            He did not.

            Crockford is not a polar bear scientist or polar bear expert… her research on arctic species touches only tangentially on polar bears.

            I am no longer commenting on WUWT – due to its poor science, paranoid commenters and unpleasant political commentary.

            Heaven only knows why I’m still commenting here…

            I guess I just can’t stand to see the serial misrepresentation of plain facts.

          • Gator says:

            Good grief and Griff, does Dr Crockford need to sue you for libel? She has already addressed your lies directly. You bitched when Tommy simply gave your first name.

            And why do you hate poor brown people?

          • spike55 says:

            You are a LYING deceitful CRETIN, griff.

            It is obvious that you have absolutely ZERO scientific education, or much actual education at all.

            You are the VERY LAST person who should be talking about poor science.

            If you didn’t have really, really bad, ignorant anti-science… you wouldn’t have any science at all.

            You are a SCIENTIFIC NON-ENTITY.

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            ”Heaven only knows why I’m still commenting here…”

            That’s where we are in full agreement, also asking why in heaven’s name you keep coming back after all the beating and embarrassment you’d received. I reckon you just like the punishment. How about starting every post with:

            “Thank you, Sir, may I have another?”

  7. ann other says:

    Be aware Griff is just a pensioner who was a dairy factory worker and lives in Northland New Zealand. He has no scientific qualifications at all. He is also regularly suspended from some blogs in New Zealand because of abuse when he is challenged about info he posts from alarmist websites or just makes up. He posts under different names when he gets suspended.
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/comments_policy
    He is a dab hand at doing Google searches but often doesn’t even read what he links to.
    DNFTT

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