Every summer since the year 2000 has had below normal temperatures north of 80N.
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php
People forecasting an ice-free Arctic have no idea what they are talking about.
Disrupting the Borg is expensive and time consuming!
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Are you still taking bets? http://arctic-roos.org/observations/satellite-data/sea-ice/observation_images/ssmi1_ice_ext.png
Are you still being an idiot?
You are an idiot because Steve showed that AIR temperature have been COOLER than normal for a long time thus it could not be the air temperature that cause a decline of the ice cap.
It was something else and I am sure you have no idea what it is.
Oh, ok I thought I was about to make an easy grand!
Stupid twice in a row since the TOPIC is about cooler than average summer temperatures in the last 12 years.
You have not even tried to dispute it but make a deflection to something else.
Reblogged this on Climate Ponderings.
Steve,
How many times has a kindly stranger passed by now, and explained to you that summer temperatures will not vary much from 0C, until all the ice has gone?
There are reasons for this.
Its a great big liberal conspiracy called “physics”.
In the summer, extra heat will melt more ice, and the air temp will remain the same.
In the winter, extra heat means less ice formation, and the temperature will drop less.
Now go on, have a rough guess. I’m not expecting you to have kept count. I realise that you have difficulty with numbers after ten, because you have to take your sneakers off.
How many times has a kindly stranger passed by to explain this to you? If you don’t know, just guess.
No matter how many idiots come by here, ice still doesn`t melt below 0C.
The fact that 50 trillion flies eat shit doesn`t impress me.
Actually, the melting point of salt water (sea water) is -2 C… so yes, it does.
By the end of summer, sea ice is almost completely fresh water. But don’t let the facts get in the way of your belief system.
No, actually, the ice is so fragmented that the actions of waves and winds are now churning the seas, so the water is not as fresh as it might have been once upon a time.
In any event, it hardly matters. At this point, by all measures, we have reached a new low, and earlier than at any time in the satellite record. The onslaught continues, and no matter what you post or whine about, it’s happening and it can’t be stopped.
Congratulations. You’ve helped to destroy the Arctic as man has known it throughout all of recorded civilization.
Oh Steven, language, language
With the GOP convention starting Monday, weather permitting, you do need to start showing some sort of responsibility!
As far as I can tell, you are the last remaining conservative blogger willing to discuss Arctic Sea Ice. A grateful nation looks to you.
When are you going to start showing some responsibility?
Believe me that many skeptics do not bother because it is so freaking obvious what is going on in the Arctic.Warmists simply can not get it that they are telling the world on how mentally ill they are……
Steve chose to to bring it up over and over hoping to educate the remaining drooling morons to get an inkling on what is really going on.You cry over the newest ice (which is yearly) while Steve tells you over and over that MULTIPLE year ice is increasing since 2007.
He tells us that the temperature has been below normal for 12 years in a row and not one of you warmist dingleberries dispute it and instead stupidly babble about how low ice levels are that are not caused by air temperatures which is TWELVE YEARS IN A ROW BELOW NORMAL IN THE HIGH ARCTIC!!!
Since it can not be air temperatures causing the decline you clods whine about,what can it be causing it…..?
How many times do warmist adults have to be told the obvious over and over,4 year old children,yes,but adults?
Here is Steven’s only permitted record of Arctic temperatures…
YOU CAN CLICK ON ALL THE LAST TWELVE YEARS!
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php
Check every one. It’s about O degrees C in Summer. And in winter…
It clearly demonstrates the danger of the returning ice age, as soon as you have learned the proper perspective on such things. As is clearly shown here:
http://cruelclimate.net/images/seaice.recovery.arctic.png
Now, if all of you naughty boys would like to report to the Hon Mockton’s study, I’m sure that he would be most pleased to explain to you the danger of interpreting diagrams without adjusting the vertical orientation
Hi Jak!
Tell me how things were in the Arctic, during the Holocene Climate Optimum. When temperatures in the Arctic were 10C higher than they are now. What was the state of the ice then? How did the world fare?
Jak shoots himself in the foot,
“Check every one. It’s about O degrees C in Summer. And in winter…”
FRESH Ice does not melt at 0 degrees C and the always low incoming solar radiation angle does not add much to melting either.
Yes in winter it is far below zero C. I am sure that was your point…. LOL.This means that most of the Arctic will refreeze over every winter into the future.When the North Atlantic waters change to the cool phase the summer meltdown will be less.
Take a look here and see what you get with cold north Atlantic and Pacific water temps:
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/08/26/hiding-the-incline-at-nsidc-and-giss/
There was expansion of Arctic ice cover then back in the 1960’s and 1970’s.The Summer melt was less too.
I have looked through the data a long time ago and see no evidence of warming in the short summer months.Thus you can scrap the absurd idea that freezing air temperatures are melting the ice away.
Steve and even Julienne show that it is storms with high winds and incoming warmer waters is the dominant cause of ice melting and removal from the very cold arctic region to the warmer southern regions.
Try being rational and you will find it refreshing.
Had a feeling you wouldn`t touch my question, joke, errr, jak.
Here is what I know on the subject, regardless of all the scientific or political doublespeak. It gets warmer, it gets colder. The Earth has had a minimum 5 ice ages. Not one ice age was caused by humans. Early man was nomadic for a reason. Bunch of Idiots.
According to Global Earth app on my iPad the majority of the Arctic is well below 32 F. Greenland is even colder. So where is this melt? And maybe our friends at the NYT need to be educated…….good luck with that. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/28/science/earth/sea-ice-in-arctic-measured-at-record-low.html?_r=2&smid=fb-share
It’s not whether the glass is half full or half empty that counts.
It’s whether is it is being filled or emptied as the levels passes the
half-way point. We shall see what we shall see in the coming
decade. If warm currents no longer enter through the Bering
Strait, then coverage will surely begin to grow as in former
times.
HL Mencken
AFAIK, every plot of arctic ice, area coverage and/or total area, 15% or 30%, is based on computer analysis of microwave radiation bounced back from the surface and captured by one or two satellites. There are at least a dozen different algorithms touted by various groups of scientists, which produce a range of results varying by literally millions of square kilometers in their estimation of arctic ice from those microwave readings.
If you look at the fine structure of these various plots, you will see incidents of the ice coverage decreasing by hundreds of thousands of square kilometers in a day or two, then rebounding by that same area in the same rapid fashion. No way are these changes representing physical reality.
The slope of ice “melting” represented since the beginning of August by many of these algorithms is totally at odds with the temperature estimates for 80 degrees latitude plus. The rate of melting is not only unprecedented for this point in the annual cycle, it is at odds with physical reality, just like those ups and downs in ice coverage I mentioned. However, it is consistent with a defect in these algorithms which misses “seeing” significant ice, possibly dispersed by a severe storm at the beginning of August.
I recall that at least one of these algorithms needed tweaking a few years ago, to eliminate the step-change in area that was appearing when switching from “winter” to “summer” mode in ice area estimation. Apparently, a problem of recognizing that ice melt pools on solid ice floes was not really open water, although the algorithms thought it was. And one satellite was taken out of service due to severe “drift” in its sensors when people on the “ground” reported solid ice that the satellite signal indicated was open water.
Where is the ground truth to validate the disappearing ice reported since the beginning of August? The IMS report [National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) – National Ice Center – Interactive Multisensor Snow and Ice Mapping System (IMS)] currently is following the same general trend for arctic ice as it has for the past six years, and it is now showing a million sq. km. of sea ice more than the 2007 summer minimum. Again, this multisensor system might be the closest to ground truth that we have without depending on faulty algorithms of microwave radiation.
Other ground truth, although only a two point indication, is provided by the two stationary cameras located on the ice pack. Last year, much was made of time when one of these cameras fell over, when the ice melted underneath it. Anyway, comparing photographs from August 1 with the latest photographs clearly show that the ice coverage in the scope of these cameras has increased, and the depth of coverage [with new snow, we assume] has also increased over that time frame. In other words, the arctic pack is refreezing over the past 3 weeks… at least where these cameras are located. Since they are floating with the ice pack, I don’t know where they are, or even if they are in the coverage area of the satellites [they might be in the blind spot].
Stanley, thank you for the incite of this!
Oops. Insight
“High Arctic Summers Have Been Colder Than Normal 12 Years In A Row”
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/documentation/arctic_mean_temp_data_explanation_newest.pdf
So this is wonderland.
Steve,
I don’t know where you get your information from, but Summer temperatures above 80N have been NORMAL since year 2000, However the other 75% of the year(s) tells a different story — they have been markedly higher.
In totality, an average temperature for all the days of the past 12 years above 80N, has shown a clear temperature increase above the mean: http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php
It is still well below freezing even then and during the part of the year with little to no sunshine.
Try looking at the part where it is barely above freezing for a short time and you see that it hugs the mean tighly year after year thus no warming there where it really counts.
The cause of the sea ice reduction has not been air temperature but winds and incoming warmer water from the north atlantic.