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He can demand a lot of things, but that does not make them even a tenet of the Church. I do not seek scientific guidance from religious leaders.
No, but this gives ‘moral high ground’ to the alarmists, it is extremely damaging. It is interesting to note that poor countries produce more offspring, and the Catholic church has always been about making as many new proselytes as possible, so this fits an agenda.
I disagree – look at it from the other way. What would alarmists being saying if you tried to use the Pope as a reference against AGW?
There is no morality in being wrong. And that is the case here. He does not know he does not know
Two words.
Katharine.
Hayhoe.
The left loves religion when it meets their needs, and hates science when it does not.
Sadly true.
But there is immorality if the 9th commandment is broken during the effort to say skeptic climate scientists are ‘industry-corrupted shills’. Or at least there is some moral dilemma if that accusation is repeated without first checking the veracity of it. THAT is what is always lurking in the background behind any religious ‘moral imperative’ to stop climate change.
They don’t take the 3rd commandment seriously, why should it bother them to have the pope nullify another?
For Stark (below, as I type):
Which do you count as the third commandment? I have heard Protestants complain about the Church and the first (or second) commandment, and I know that numbering differs, but the third? Or is it a typo?
This ‘pontificating’ on a subject he knows nothing about makes me think he is a puppet for the Communists. And a not very bright man.
The last Pope to become deeply embroiled in scientific matters was Pope Clement VIII.
In February 1600 the Pope Commanded that one Giordano Bruno a Catholic Monk be bound to a stake that was surrounded by flagons. The Pope also commanded his henchmen to sew Bruno’s tongue to the insides of his cheeks, and to sew his lips closed. All the better to keep Bruno from spreading his beliefs in public while the flames licked at the hem of his cowl.
Bruno’s sin…? Why he believed that the Earth orbited our Sun, and that there were other Suns of a number unimaginable visible in the night sky. The current Pope is treading on shaky ground when he becomes involved in political arguments, especially ones as unfounded as Human Caused Global Warming. Remember that 97% of the Church Leaders in 1600 made a consistence that the Sun orbited the Earth.
In the late 19th Century a group of men dedicated to science and reason paid to erect a bronze statue commemorating Giordano Bruno’s execution. You can see it today standing in Rome’s Plaza of Flowers. Maybe someone should point it out to the new Pontiff from Argentina.
I’m afraid Bruno wasn’t condemned for heliocentrism, but for his denial of dogmas of the kind which even those ill-disposed to the church will surely accept are fundamental to Christianity and independent of cosmology or any other branch of natural science (although, perhaps, Bruno himself didn’t think them entirely separate), including the divinity of Christ, the Virginity of His mother, and whether all are saved. I don’t think he did any actual science, as we would know it today, unlike his fellow cleric, Copernicus.
I had to look up the story of his statue online. I didn’t know that story, although I was familiar with its image. I gather that it was erected by the anticlerical party, and sculpted by no less than the “Grand Master of the Orient”, according to Wikipedia, which I suppose is likely to be correct. Call them “a group of men dedicated to science and reason”, if you must, but I demur. “A group of esoteric anti-catholic syncretists”, I call them – men for whom Bruno would be a natural hero, I suppose.
Bruno was a Pantheist. If he lived today, he would be a Californian hippie.
As far as I can find out, in 1600 the Catholic Church had not yet officially condemned heliocentrism; that would come in 1616.
I though the Pope had a direct line to God. 🙂
So it appears the line has been disconnected. Since the vast majority of Climate Change / Warming. Is natural, so an “Act of God.” in other words.
It appears the Pope has lost his ‘faith’ and no longer believes in the natural. Only the tenets of Man!
Unfortunately, the Church has a bad habit of aligning itself with powerful political allies.
One religion supporting another.
That hardly ever happens.
I would like to tell the Pope to go to hell, but I won’t. I don’t want to offend anyone who follows his faith – Catholicism and quack science.
Maybe he’s trying to lure CAGW believer’s to the church. He might figure if they can believe in that, they can believe in anything. No offense to practicing Catholics. I was raised RC but don’t practice it.
He unwittingly confirms “climate change” is part of a globalist social engineering UN-sponsored agenda of Satan. After the Soviet bloc ruined the environment in Eastern Europe, and collapsed, the UN socialists had to come up with a new boogeyman that would not disappear; hence the climate and “global warming.”
The pope isn’t stupid and may just be playing along to get what he really wants from globalists: a continuing world religions powwow at the same event. He must know science cannot predict the doomsday future any better than other humans.
The Catholic Church is the originator of the selling indulgences scam. Wanna bet they will be selling Catholic carbon credits?
OUCH!
Actually the originators of the selling indulgences scam were the prehistoric shamen. The priest class has always had power to frighten the peons into giving them wealth in exchange for ‘protection’
Of course that can have it’s down side too.
Bog bodies are kings sacrificed by Celts says expert
About time we bring back that practice and apply it ti Congress too.
The emperors of Rome and Russia died violently more often than otherwise.
You seem to fall for progressive propaganda as well. You were pardoned for minor sins if you simply confessed. Only God could forgive cardinal sins. Indulgences were the penance not the cost for forgiveness. There was none.
This is a brilliant move on the alarmists part. Now, they’ve got the backing of Rome to pull a Galileo on the ‘deniers’.
The man is a Jesuit…they are supposed to be the ‘smart’ ones. He’s not done anything particularly brilliant since he became Pope, unless you are a libtard…then he’s the best thing since sliced bread.
I am currently busy changing Lignocellulose Biomass via the thermoconversion of combustion into mostly Black Carbon. Or IOW I have a fire in my fireplace because it’s frosty cold outside and it feels good. Ash and wild cherry both from trees cut down off adjacent property about 20 months ago are the specific biomass species being converted now.
So this morning I’m doing my part to increase the atmospheric CO2 level and it doesn’t have a darn thing to do with industrialization. It does however have everything to do with feeling warm and cozy. And though I have no insert but data indicates my gas bill will be lower because of it.
I wonder if the Pontiff has ordered the faithful to stop using the dozens of fireplaces and wood burning stoves in the Vatican? And will he change the long standing tradition of the color of smoke emanating form the stack of the Sistine Chapel for the Concave? I mean after all, these measures and having his bank divest of all investments in anything having to do with fossil fuels are the very least that the Pope could do. And oh, BTW those communion wafers better not have had fossil fuels used to make them.
From the perspective of a non practicing non Christian I viewed the choice of this Pope as Catholicisms attempt to appease the political left that has been assaulting them for decades. Aside from that whole Church thing this Pope is as good a spokesperson for the western political left as is any you could think of.
As a practicing Catholic…I agree.
He has actually pissed off the left a great deal. That is because he does adhere to Church Doctrine, which is decidedly not left.
Well, there’s left and there’s left – and it seems to me that our current Pope is a rather worldly politician and presses the right (or wrong) buttons on many topics of interest to “liberals” – in matters of interreligious dialogue, serial marriage, etc, and promotes clerics who do likewise.
That is actually a very insightful comment, and much more accurate than mine. The Pope does say things that the left will glom onto. And at other times, that the right will. Pope Francis is actually not much different from Pope Benedict, and it is in the eye of the beholder to declare them left or right. They are religious first.
Just another priest giving it to the little guy.
– the joke was just lying there, someone had to say it.
I thought God was in control.
The current Pope was a socialist/extreme leftist in Argentina and remains same in Rome. As the Modernists captured the Papacy post Pius XII it has been the forgetting and replacement of tradition by the Catholic Church for nearly 60 years now. Some believe that the modern string of Popes are False Popes and fallable in Faith & Morals let alone politics and science.
Dan Kurt
It’s nice to know that Global Warming has joined forces with the people who brought you the Inquisition.
Protestants did far more, but as they wrote the history, particularly the propaganda from Elizabethan England, we get this meme over-and-over.
Actually it was not the church that started the inquisition…
“The Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition (Spanish: Tribunal del Santo Oficio de la Inquisición), commonly known as the Spanish Inquisition (Inquisición española), was established in 1478 by Catholic Monarchs Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
You see, monarchs allegedly received divine rights to rule from God, so if your working class is not of your religion you lose legitimacy. Hitler also used the church to his ends, this has happened time and again.
Allegedly? How else? You don’t vote for kings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSE
No, Hitler did not use the Church to his ends.
That story was part of the KGB’s disinformation campaign. In reality, the Church worked against Hitler.
FWIW, I have no dog in this fight. I’m an atheist.
Yes, Hitler did use the church. He replaced crucifixes with portraits of himself and hung Nazi banners behind the altar in churches across Germany. The Nazi uniform had a belt buckle that read ‘ Gott mit Uns’, or ‘God With Us’.
“Hitler was very involved in the church. He used the church and manipulated the church to accomplish his means and his ends. Here are some of the things that Hitler said in his speeches. He said, “The national government will maintain and defend the foundation on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collected morality.” And Hitler went on to say, “Today Christians stand at the head of Germany. I pledge that I will never tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all of the recent immoral developments in literature, in theater and in the press. In short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past few years.” In January 1933, Hitler appointed Ludwig Mueller, who was the leader of the German Christians, to create a state church called The Great Evangelical Church, and in September they had 20,000 German Christians gather in the Berlin Sports Palace and there they affirmed their allegiance to Hitler as the leader of their church. Unbelievable! But there was a small band of men and women, theologians and pastors, who could see through this charade, who could see past this curtain that Hitler had placed in front of their eyes and could see the truth of the gospel message of who Jesus is — a God who loves, a God who cares, a God who embraces all. They put together a group and on May 29,1934, in Barman, Germany, this small group of men gathered together and Carl Barth wrote a declaration which has since been called ‘The Barman Declaration,’ which established what Christianity was all about. Today those groups of churches in Germany are known as The Confessing Churches and they confess who Jesus Christ is and it is a wonderful statement. Martin Niemoeller preached a sermon later entitled “Christ is My Fuehrer,” and he spent time in Dachau prison for that sermon. Most of the members of that Confessing Church were arrested and spent time in the concentration camps, and many of them died for their faith.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104×3011597
I lived in Stuttgart and heard the stories first hand from those who were there.
That’s all they were – stories. And I am ashamed for you – using du as a source? They are worse than useless as their goal is disinformation! God help you.
LIFE photos of Hiter’s Nazi Christmas party taken by his personal photographer. http://time.com/3593189/photos-from-a-nazi-christmas-party/
Fascinating. Though the date is unknown it has to be before the Christmas of 1934 because of the SA Brown Shirts present including their leader, the pervert Ernst Röhm, seated on Hitlers left are present. Most of those in the SA were murdered during the “Night of the Long Knives” June 30 to July 2, 1934 when Hitler ordered a great purge and eliminated all those he thought could be potential rivals.
Yes Phil, they were stories, stories I heard from the horses mouth. I lived there forty years ago and the wounds were still fresh.
Hitler coopted the churches to control the masses (no pun intended).
As you well know, I was there 40 years ago as well. And I also heard the stories. And that was all they were. Hitler did indeed try to coop religion, but it went underground. So you are telling me nothing new in that respect.
My disdain and contempt is for your source. You destroyed your credibility by that link. At least on this issue.
You may have heard the stories “from the horse’s mouth” but they were still planted there by KGB agents.
And OF COURSE they targeted Germans: Communism was supposed to start in Germany, not Russia, and they were still trying to bring Germany into the fold even at the late juncture of the Cold War.
Yes, Hitler invoked whatever symbols (including religious ones) that were at his disposal that he thought would work for him. But the myth that the Pope of that time, or the Church, gave Hitler any kind of reciprocal favors is one of the most successful propaganda efforts of all time.
Hey Ken and Phil! I am in no way asserting that Hitler controlled the Catholic church, as that is definitely not the case. What I am saying is that many churches within the grasp of Nazi Germany were forced to ‘redecorate’ in honor of their new leadership. It happened.
Of course there were hero’s, my personal favorite is Bonhoeffer.
Tyrants always seek the reigns of the masses.
AHHHHH!!!! Sorry Gator, I am just slow. I totally agree with you there. Actually their actions are not much unlike that of our current Houston Mayor now. THe only difference is the symbols they wear.
Wow talk about a rewrite. I guess Galileo was brought in by a local talk show to explain why he did not agree with the Geocentric consensus. Copernicus’ De Revolutionibus Orbium Coelestium was banned by the book of the month club.
Yes, the Protestant rewrite of history was what I was taught in school as well. Problem is, at that the Protestants were too busy burning witches at the stake to see what was really going on in Spain.
I think you’e wrong on three counts here, gator: your wiki link refers to the *Spanish* Inquisition (there are or were others and perhaps should be again – after all, they were famously sceptical of witch hunters, for example) and as far as I can tell the “divine right of kings” was a wholly Protestant invention. Ken has already corrected you on the Hitler point.
No. I am not. I specifically spoke of the Spanish Inquisition, as an example.
No, again.
“Catholic justified submission[edit]
Catholic thought justified submission to the monarchy by reference to the following:
1.The Old Testament, in which a line of kings was created by God through the prophecy of Jacob/Israel, who created his son Judah to be king and retain the sceptre until the coming of the Messiah, alongside the line of priests created in his other son, Levi. Later, a line of Judges (who were not kings as they only had the power to provide insight to the people and not to take action to enforce their rulings) was created alongside the line of High Priests created by Moses through Aaron. Later still, the Prophet Samuel re-instituted the line of kings in Saul, under the inspiration of God.
2.The New Testament, in which the first pope, St. Peter, commands that all Christians shall honour the Roman Emperor (1 Peter 2:13–17), even though, at that time, he was still a pagan emperor. Likewise, Jesus Christ proclaims in the Gospel of Matthew that one should “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s”; that is at first, literally, the payment of taxes as binding those who use the imperial currency (See Matthew 22:15–22). Jesus told Pontius Pilate that his authority as Roman governor of Judaea came from heaven according to John 19:10–11.
3.The endorsement by the popes and the church of the line of emperors beginning with the Emperors Constantine and Theodosius, later the Eastern Roman emperors, and finally the Western Roman emperor, Charlemagne and his successors, the Catholic Holy Roman Emperors.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_right_of_kings#Catholic_justified_submission
And there was a miscommunication that I cleared up in an earlier post regarding Ken and Phil’s issue with my earlier statement.
The “Inquisition” actually started a good while before the Spanish Inquisition, but for similar reasons.
The punishment of “heretics” was a civil, not religious, responsibility, and there was no doctrine that set forth what actually constituted heresy. Therefore, many people were killed by civil authorities for reasons that were often political and without a “fair” trial.
The Church set forth guidelines to judge whether a person was actually a heretic. As such, many lives that would have ended prematurely (because, let’s face it they’d all be dead now) were spared.
Whereas the burning of heretics in Protestant Europe was much less “constrained”.
Hey Dave! You are a rare breed indeed to know the truth about the church’s intervention on behalf of their flock. So few know the truth.
It’s worthwhile to read the true details of the Bruno case instead of the popular yarns that pass for history today.
Fact is the Catholic Church did what they could during WW II in ways many may not know about. At their ministries in the SW they quietly moved German and even some Italian Priests to new assignments away from that theater of war to help them “avoid temptation”. And a couple of Catholic missionaries ended up being among the very best coast watchers in the network.
That should have been “SW Pacific”.
Which Inquisition would you be speaking of?
The Goa Inquisition,
the Literary Inquisition,
the Medieval Inquisition, the Episcopal Inquisition, the Papal Inquisition,
the Mexican Inquisition,
the Peruvian Inquisition,
the Portuguese Inquisition, or
the Roman Inquisition.
You see, most people mean the Spanish Inquisition, when they say ‘The Inquisition, as it is the most referenced episode. Maybe the original poster should have been more specific, my comment stands.
Gator, no problem with your comment nor do i disagree with anything you said. I agree with the fact that most people mean the Spanish Inquisition when they say “the Inquisition”. And I was referring to the Inquisition that Beale also referenced.
I was merely expanding on what you said, not disagreeing.
The Inquisition was established in the 13th and 14th centuries. The Spanish Inquisition was a different organization; although formally authorized by the Pope, it answered to the State rather than the Church.
This is very simple. There is free stuff being handed out and the pope wants some. No not personally but for his agenda’s. The AGW scam is about taking things from those who have it and giving things to those who have the power to demand it.
I am shocked and appalled by this.
The Pope aligns himself with the UN? As he is Argentinian I do not find this shocking, add in that he is a Jesuit. The Jesuits are among those in the forefront of destroying tradition. The two equal a bad combination.
The Jesuits are a dying part of the Church, their order losing more through attrition than the replacements can keep up with. Newer, more traditional orders are thriving.
We will wait to see what exactly the final draft of the encyclical says before saying anything, as no one knows what it will contain for certain. But whatever it may say, it will not be a Magisterial document.
it will not be a Magisterial document.
At least one hopes it isn’t.
The saddest point is that Jesuits used to be the top intellectuals / scientists in the Church.
Article comments are running heavily opposed to AGW, of course its blamed on Drudge readers.
Many faithful catholics, despite our respect for the petrine office and our prayers for the Holy Father, deeply regret the blurring of the limits of papal authority in matters such as this. Let us wait to see what the Pope says on this matter (in my case, hoping that he says nothing) and recognise that whatever is said, however wise or foolish, can only be based on some premises which the Holy Father must take on trust without benefit of papal authority and which will inevitably be flawed and probably misguided or dishonest. I can’t currently see how anything he can say on this matter can have any authority or be something which catholics have any obligation to support, although many of us will have observed how imprudent papal statements can be and are misused in that way by men of ill will within the church and outside.
The sad thing is that, in the past, Vatican Diplomacy was the best in the world. Actually, modern diplomacy was invented by the Vatican.
That they may be so lost as to be deceived by the Church’s worst enemies (like Maurice Strong) is appalling.
Yes Maurice Strong is working hard to come up with a ‘new religion’ that can be used world wide.
At least he didn’t blame the Jews. Or did he?
Next the Pope will blame witches for the weather problems.
True story: this happened in the past! The religious fanatics, both Catholic and Protestant, believed that witches controlled the climate!!!
Now they just pretend to, but at least they upgraded their names to a B.
It was an easy way to confiscate land from widows who inherited it from their dead husbands.
We Don’t?
Ah so! YOu are responsible for the pause! And the reason this latest polar vortex is supposed to miss NC.
Remind me never to piss you off. 😉
Good grief, no! Newts can’t type.
Actually, Gingrich is a very good typist. I think he uses his toes as well.
Phil I have been accused of a being a ‘weather witch’ all my life… The Chemist
http://thumb9.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/946633/156685736/stock-vector-cartoon-witch-cooking-halloween-vector-illustration-156685736.jpg
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C Clarke.
The pope should read his Bible. The rainbow is a sign that God will never flood the earth again.
How on earth any Christian can believe in AGW is a real mystery to me.
Ha, I looked up some of the ‘experts’ who talked with the Pope. Both Stiglitz and Sachs are socialists (Stiglitz belongs to SocialistInternational.org and Sachs belongs to the Party of European Socialists). George Soros is also an advisor to Sachs’ Earth Institute. In addition, a number of other people belong to the CFR or other Rockefeller funded organizations.
As a Catholic, I’m wondering if this Pope is a hidden left-wing globalist or just ignorant on what’s going on in the world of climate science.
Let’s put it this way…he’s Pope because he was NOT a close friend of Ratzinger and in many ways was diametrically opposed to Ratzinger, on a philosophical and possibly even theological level. His leftist tendencies weren’t exactly hidden, when he was a bishop and cardinal…
The latter.
Given that the Pope has come out and said that governments should redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor and also made a statement about communism recently that actually was a defense of communism, I think the Pope is really a left-wing globalist.
My how things change. Pope John Paul II risked his life to defy the Nazis and was an enemy of communism. So much so they tried to assassinate him.
Most of the time, I am proud to be a Catholic.
Not this time.
Although I do not have the time to address each of the above anti-Catholic bigoted smear, I can say that most are as ignorant as the pope’s take on “global warming”.
Since Galileo came to the discussion, I cannot avoid suggesting the reading of the most extensive, historically accurate and funniest account of the Galileo affair:
http://tofspot.blogspot.com.br/2013/08/the-great-ptolemaic-smackdown.html
Lots of food for thought about the scientific endeavour.
Note: Mike Flynn is an orthodox Catholic “climate denier”.
Jose,
Most of us are finding the history we were taught was mainly fairy tales. “It is the Winners who write history’ and in this day it is the propagandists who rewrite it to fit their agenda.
And thanks for the link Tof is a good writer.
Grammar Nazi Alert!
Tyrants always seek the reigns of the masses.
Reins please, that is what connects the bit in the horse’s mouth to your hands.
Reign is what a queen does.
The reigning Queen pulled the left rein to turn her horse towards home because it was raining.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/08/08/article-1042560-0233F7F900000578-471_468x546.jpg
Auto correct issue, I believe.
Pope Demands That Catholics End Bad Weather
What Can a Popular Pope Do About Climate Change?
The pontiff plans to issue a rare and controversial plea for Catholics to consider the environment. Recent polls show his message just might resonate.
After reading that drivel I am hoping Atlanta gets a taste of winter.
Looks like the the Pope picked a really really bad time to make that announcement.
According to Ice Age Now Europe is getting hit pretty bad.
Just listed today:
Record snow in Zurich, Switzerland: (30 inches (75 cm) of snow were measured in Zurich-Fluntern, more than has ever been seen here since the measurements were taken in 1949. The previous record of 29 cm (11.5 inches) was set on 14 December 1990.)
Romania – Temperatures to plunge to -25C (coldest New years Eve in 50 years)
Romania – Blizzard knocks out power to more than 80 villages
Yesterday was even worse as I mentioned above.
Man it’s enough to make me wish I was back in Tolz with that annual ski pass to the Brauneck. From Sept. 20th 1987 till April 3rd 1988 I did not go two days in a row (except over Christmas when I took two days off) without being on the slopes. Started on a Glacier in Austria for assessment as a ski instructor. Went on to the Zugspitz for German Army ski instructor training. Then months on the Brauneck broken up with a couple days of helicopter skiing at various other mountains including several in the top 15 highest in Bavaria and of course winter warfare training. Then down through the Brenner pass to Vipitano, Italy in Sud Tyrol to attend Ski training with the Italian Special Forces of the 9th Paracudisti Reg.
Great Powder that winter. The German method was how I learned and what I taught but once I learned the Italian method that was what I used from then on except when instructing. More efficient and smoother. But when things would get dicey I would always automatically go back to my German method roots.