Expansion Of Thick Sea Ice Into The Western Arctic

Over the past two months, winds have been pushing thick Arctic sea ice into the East Siberian, Chukchi and Beaufort Seas. This is very painful news for alarmists, because these are the seas which determine the summer minimum. Alarmists care very much for the planet, which is why that get so angry when you point out that there is nothing wrong.

DMI Modelled ice thickness

There is a lot more thick ice in the western Arctic than there was nine years ago.  Climate experts won’t tell you this, because they care for the planet so much, and because their funding depends on misinforming and frightening the public.

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61 Responses to Expansion Of Thick Sea Ice Into The Western Arctic

  1. Latitude says:

    There is a lot more thick ice in the western Arctic

    …a hell of a lot more!

  2. neal s says:

    A general question for Griff and Hunt and all arctic alarmists … what, if anything, would convince them that there is nothing to worry about in terms of arctic sea ice? If there is nothing that can convince them that there is no reason to panic, then their beliefs are just a really bad religion and not science at all.

    Will they be happy if arctic sea ice shows signs of ‘recovery’ because they really really care about arctic sea ice, or will they be mad that they were wrong yet again?

    • Colorado Wellington says:

      Also:

      Do they believe the catastrophic anthropogenic global warming hypothesis is fasifiable?

      If so, what test or observation can they design or define that would falsify the hypothesis?

      Will they be mad about such questions?

    • SxyxS says:

      Forget it!

      There is nothing that exists that can convince this people because these guys are fanatics.
      The worst kind of fanatics-The meek,good doer,i’m not a fanatic-fanatic.

      You may convince a fanatic religious terrorist with logic as he is somehow aware that he is full of crap.
      You may convince a dangerous criminal that he is doing the wrong things,as he is somehow aware that he is on a wrong road.
      You may even convince a lunatic that he is crazy,as he is somehow aware that something is wrong with him.

      But these guys are not,as they had been corrupted on a completely different level.
      Most people think that they are doing the right things-that’s why they do what they do.
      If you want to corrupt them you just have to appeal to their basic instincts.
      Therefore is easy to corrupt dumb people.
      Promise them paradise ,to be something superior or something special etc,and they’ll do anything you want them to do.

      But corrupting smart or educated people works on a completely different level:
      You have to appeal to their moral vanities.
      To make them appear important and tolerant,to save planet earth or any other way they can make themselves feel and look good and give them the chance to grab as many karma the cheap way as they.

      Of course these people are as shitty as religious idiots,criminals and lunatics ,
      as they also have zero integrity, terrible double standards and no sense for truth that does not fit their agenda
      and they are not doing what is right
      but their corruption works on a much more subtle base that is hard to detect.

      The trick is pretty simple:Their masters simply changed the narrative:
      Instead of a crazy jihad god they gave them karl marx,
      instead of nationalism they gave them internationalism,
      instead of military talk they gave the political correctness.

      instead of racism they have the self-racism.
      If you even dare to slightly criticize their point of view or ideologie
      you will be attacked as
      xenophob,homophob,transphob,climate denier((and all the other artificial,stupid terms their masters created for them inside their think tanks to attack those who are against their plans))
      But only as long as you are white and christian.
      If you are dark skinned and eg muslim you can criticize them as much as you want,
      Then they don’t care wether you hate homosexuals,chop of heads
      and hands because sharia want it that way
      or have a history of 1400 years
      of slavery and legal pedophilia
      they won’t say a word,but consider themselve tolerant.

      These people are the perfect mirror image of those people they hate-
      just because their
      fascism is soft fascism,therefore they think its alright.

      In fact they are just the second step of judas-people in communism.

      The first step was pretty primitive:
      They simply took the traitors,opportunists and criminals to surpress their own people.
      They created a Stasi to spy on the ,to keep them down.

      This second Generation is just like the liquid Terminator t-1000 compared to the old outdated t-800 Schwarzenegger Model.
      Fluid,hard to catch,much more leathal while looking much more harmless.

      The second generation Stasi is autonom,
      and need no longer to be paid by the goverment to surpress others as the new Stasi Apparatchik doesn’t even know that he is a Stasi Apparatchik,
      but thinks that his behaviour is based on free will,though
      people behaving like the second generation Stasi have never existed in history of mankind before the hippies occured.

      The second generation stasi can be best compared to
      the IMF.
      Before the IMF the Bankers((who sponsored Hitler and the Bolshewik revolution))
      always needed Mercenaries,Soldiers and Armies to controle and Rob other countries.
      The problem was,that that these foreign Armies had been fought and eventually kicked out of the countries.
      Since the IMF is giving loans to those countries,
      they can loot those countries however they won’t,as people no longer can see the occupying forces ,because they are invisible for the uneducated and controle the money.

      • neal s says:

        Yup yup yup. I believe you are correct. Of course Griff or Hunt might show up and give some specific measurable and time-bounded criteria for something that would convince them … but I certainly will not hold my breath waiting for that to happen. And if they show up with something that isn’t specific and/or isn’t measurable and/or isn’t time-bounded, then we know they are just lying while trying to preserve the illusion that they might be amenable to reason.

      • Gail Combs says:

        Got it!

    • Jason Calley says:

      Neal asks: ” what, if anything, would convince them that there is nothing to worry about in terms of arctic sea ice? ”

      Maybe a lobotomy… I mean, facts and reason have not worked on them. :)

      • AndyG55 says:

        They totally DENY any facts on past Arctic sea ice , around 1950, and pre-LIA. That makes them the Climate Change Deniers.

        But they have to deny that history for their puerile, baseless anti-human, anti-progress, religion to even exist.

    • Gator says:

      Will they be happy if arctic sea ice shows signs of ‘recovery’ because they really really care about arctic sea ice, or will they be mad that they were wrong yet again?

      When have they ever admitted they were wrong?

    • Gail Combs says:

      Griffy, Jimmy Boy and the Rest of the ClimAstrologists would be screaming:
      I TOLD YOU SO!
      If there was a mile of ice sitting on New York City and Chicago.

      That is why they changed from Gore Bull Warbling to Climate Change. Climate Change is not falsifiable and everything is caused by CO2 and evil mankind.

      • AndyG55 says:

        Its the total DENIAL of the fact that Arctic sea ice levels were low in the 1950’s and MUCH lower through the first 3/4 of the Holocene that gets to me.

        Its bizarre that someone like Jimbo, you tries to put himself as an “authority” (roflmao) on Arctic sea ice would so totally DENY CLIMATE CHANGE HISTORY.

        I also find it quite sickening that these AGW cultists DENY the damage done in third world countries by denying them access to solid reliable electricity. It really is anti-human in the extreme, up there with the likes of ISIS.

        I can only assume he has a totally other agenda than seeking the TRUTH. What that agenda could be, apart from being paid , in some fashion, by the Exeter Uni troughers, is left to people’s imaginations… its disgusting, whatever it is.

    • Jim Hunt says:

      Evenin’ neal (UTC),

      I’d be very happy, but it ain’t happenin’ yet

      • R. Shearer says:

        That’s up from roughly zero ~ 6000 years ago.

        • AndyG55 says:

          Would have been nice to have even something as primitive and error prone as PIOMAS back in 1950. ;-)

          And you would only have to go back to the latter stages of the MWP to be way below the current values

          Iceland ice index gives a reasonable idea, because ice around Iceland means a lot of sea ice.

      • Gerald Machnee says:

        Again, Jim, how was it measured???

      • Alfred Giesbrecht says:

        Interesting graph. It shows the arctic loosing ice during the winter.Explain.

      • AndyG55 says:

        Fools like Jimbo and griff don’t realise that sea ice IS recovering, from the extreme highs of the late 1970 down towards a more normal Holocene level.

        It is their total disregard and denial of any Arctic sea ice history before their pathetic, meaningless lifetimes, that leads to this total lack of reality about what is really happening.

        It is called WILFUL IGNORANCE..

        But it is how they choose to waste their lives.

  3. Steve Case says:

    They say they don’t want disaster to occur but that’s really not true. They want it with all their hearts:

    http://sealevel.colorado.edu/content/nasa-satellites-detect-pothole-road-higher-seas

    Old article but one of my favorites on this topic.

    • Jason Calley says:

      Hey Steve, yes, it sounds crazy, but they really do want it. They become angry if you try to help them let go of it. I can actually understand how someone who believed in CAGW but thought there was still time to fix it could get angry. After all, to them, we would be the people preventing the fix from occurring! But even the ones who claim that we have already gone over the environmental cliff, that it cannot be reversed, that the planet is already doomed, they still get angry when challenged. That is a clue to their desires.

    • RAH says:

      It is no different than the hate for things human that drives them in every aspect of their lives. Rush was talking about this very tihing in a more general way as you guys were writing about the more specific terms of climate.

      They’re driven by hate because they have bought into the victimhood. Victimhood is what the left and their press is selling day in and day out. And to be a victim you have to be pessimistic about life in general. You have to believe that this nation is harming you or holding your down. And being a pessimist you have to be driven by hate. The outward signs of this are on display every day in this nation now because now that Obama is gone and Hillary is not in the WH that is all the opposition has left. They have nothing positive to offer, only pessimism and anger about everything. And thus we will continue to see this craziness. But it won’t win them elections. It is not how a national party can be sustained in a relatively free society.

      • Andy DC says:

        The only non-victims are straight, white, Christian males who voted for Donald Trump. Everyone else is a victim of oppression, enslavement, bullying and rape, if not downright genocide, by straight, white Christian males who voted for Donald Trump.

  4. CheshireRed says:

    Take a look at these ‘Rules of Bureaucracy’ and tell me every last one doesn’t apply to the climate change propaganda industry.

    Rule #1: Maintain the problem at all costs! The problem is the basis of power, perks, privileges, and security.
    Rule #2: Use crisis and perceived crisis to increase your power and control.
    Rule 2a. Force 11th-hour decisions, threaten the loss of options and opportunities, and limit the opposition’s opportunity to review and critique.
    Rule #3: If there are not enough crises, manufacture them, even from nature, where none exist.
    Rule #4: Control the flow and release of information while feigning openness.
    Rule 4a: Deny, delay, obfuscate, spin, and lie.
    Rule #5: Maximize public-relations exposure by creating a cover story that appeals to the universal need to help people.
    Rule #6: Create vested support groups by distributing concentrated benefits and/or entitlements to these special interests, while distributing the costs broadly to one’s political opponents.
    Rule #7: Demonize the truth tellers who have the temerity to say, “The emperor has no clothes.”
    Rule 7a: Accuse the truth teller of one’s own defects, deficiencies, crimes, and misdemeanours.

    Harry Teasley has a LOT to answer for! Very interesting reading.

    https://mises.org/library/seven-rules-bureaucracy

    • Douglas Hoyt says:

      I once met a woman who did welfare work for the government. I said, wouldn’t it be nice if everyone was prosperous and there would be no need for welfare. She replied that would be horrid.

      That ended the conversation. Her job was more important than the welfare of people and society as a whole. Climate scientists seem to have the same mindset. They want a crisis solely to keep employed.

      • CheshireRed says:

        Exactly so. What odds the Commissioner for Racial Equality reports back to the president (or PM in the UK) that erm, ‘actually, there’s no more inequality or racism’? None, ‘cos then they’re out of a job. Same with ‘climate change’. A scam for a lifetime of easy money.

      • tony mcleod says:

        Douglas Hoyt says:
        “They want a crisis solely to keep employed.”

        Same goes for cancer researchers, total boondoggle.

    • Rud Istvan says:

      2012 low was driven by a large Arctic cyclone in August. Weather driven. Thickness doesn’t matter when its blown out the Fram Strait.

      • Jim Hunt says:

        Fancy seeing you in here Rud!

        Fancy answering my questions over at ex. Prof. Judy’s place?

        • AndyG55 says:

          You would agree that there is far more sea ice now than there was for most of the first 3/4 of the Holocene, wouldn’t you Jimbo ? Yes or No

          Let’s see if Jimbo will answer, or if he WILL cowardly grovel away or avoid.

          • Gail Combs says:

            I vote he will ignore the question. After all he doesn’t want to upset the bosses, they might fire him…
            Unless he is working for Al the Gorical and the Clintons and then he has to worry about Arkancide.

    • NavarreAggie says:

      You’ve got a funny way of defining the word “collapse” when there is the same or more ice today. The fluctuations sound more like weather-related oscillations than a “collapse.”

      • AndyG55 says:

        This year is definitely weather related.

        The Jet stream has held a “less cold” anomaly over the Franz Joseph/Kara Sea region all year slowing the growth of sea ice in that region

        But at the same time it was holding an anomalous cold patch over northern Russia, and causing sweeping extreme cold troughs across northern USA, Canada and Alaska.. . you know, areas where lots of people actually try to live.

        You cannot look at one without looking at the other….

        ….. unless you are a psychopathic AGW scammer.

    • Gail Combs says:

      2007 and 2012 were due to storms and wind driving the ice out of the Arctic.

      …NASA was quietly issuing a press release explaining why Arctic sea ice loss was so great this year. [2007]

      From the release: A team led by Son Nghiem of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., studied trends in Arctic perennial ice cover by combining data from NASA’s Quick Scatterometer (QuikScat) satellite with a computing model based on observations of sea ice drift from the International Arctic Buoy Programme. QuikScat can identify and map different classes of sea ice, including older, thicker perennial ice and younger, thinner seasonal ice.

      “Unusual atmospheric conditions set up wind patterns that compressed the sea ice, loaded it into the Transpolar Drift Stream and then sped its flow out of the Arctic,” said Son Nghiem of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory and leader of the study. When that sea ice reached lower latitudes, it rapidly melted in the warmer waters.

      In simpler terms, polar wind patterns changed and blew sea ice further south to warmer waters than it normally would. Sea ice can easily be wind driven…
      link

      2012

      NASA finally admits it Arctic cyclone in August ‘broke up’ and ‘wreaked havoc’ on sea ice — Reuters reports Arctic storm played ‘key role’ in this season’s sea ice reduction…

      In a September 18 video posted by NASA on its website, they admit that the Arctic cyclone, which began on August 1, “wreaked havoc on the Arctic sea ice cover” by “breaking up sea ice.” (NASA story here)

      Global warming activists have been giddy in their hyping of the satellite era record low Arctic sea ice extent while ignoring the satellite record sea ice expansion in the Antarctic.

      Many climate activists have sought to downplay the significance that the Arctic cyclone played on this year’s summer sea ice in the Arctic. But this new inconvenient video report from NASA now makes the warmists’ attempt to deny the cyclones role in 2012’s Arctic sea ice conditions — impossible.

      The September 18 NASA video notes: “A powerful storm wreaked havoc on the Arctic sea ice cover in August 2012. This visualization shows the strength and direction of the winds and their impact on the ice: the red vectors represent the fastest winds, while blue vectors stand for slower winds.”

      Reuters news service filed a September 21 report based on NASA’s video admission titled: “NASA says Arctic cyclone played ‘key role’ in record ice melt.” The news segment details how the Arctic sea ice was reduced due to “a powerful cyclone that scientists say ‘wreaked havoc’ on ice cover during the month of August.” (Reuters on “Arctic Cyclone” — 0:47 second long segment — Rob Muir reporting.) […]
      link

      But nice try. Might have worked with a less knowledgeable group. ?

      • Cam says:

        All I’m saying is based on this…This is very painful news for alarmists, because these are the seas which determine the summer minimum. …there is no guarantee that greater ice in East Siberian, Chukchi, and Bering Seas will result in a greater summer minimum and these two years were proof of that. What mechanism caused their low minimums at the end of the summer could just as easily occur this year and drop the minimum to new lows in both extent and volume. We won’t know that until the end of the melt season in September.

        • Gail Combs says:

          Actually we can make a guess.

          …The Fram Strait, located between Greenland and Spitsbergen (Fig. 1), is with 2,600 m mean water depth the only deep-water connection between the Arctic Ocean and the World’s Ocean. Further in and outlet systems are the Bering Strait, the Canadian Arctic Archipelago, and the Barents Sea with maximum water depths of 450 m, which do not provide for a comparable deep-water circulation. The huge discharge of sea ice from the Arctic Ocean (ca. 3,000 km3 mean annual export between 1950 – 2000) through Fram Strait (Vinje, 2001b) is mainly confined to the western part of this passage….

          The impact of atmospheric forcing on the sea ice distribution in Fram Strait is mainly effected through variations in sea level pressure, wind strength and circulation patterns (depending on the respective mode of the North Atlantic Oscillation; NAO) that favour or inhibit the sea ice formation on the one hand and the export of sea ice via the EGC on the other hand (Dickson, 2000; Hurrell and Deser, 2009; Kwok et al., 2004; Vinje, 2001b; see chapter 5 for further discussion)….
          Last Glacial to Holocene variability in the sea ice

          The winds, are currently changing phase. In time this will weaken the ocean currents in the mid latitudes and reduce the equatorial excess energy propagated polewards. Also the gravitational energy “battery” of upper atmospheric geopotential fed into the poles will slowly run down as solar UV is reduced going into this extended solar minimum.

          I used to have a really great side-by-side of arctic wind directions showing the recent change. From export out Fram Strait to circling the Arctic. Unfortunately I lost it.

          So there is this instead:

  5. Jim Hunt says:

    Tony – The Canadian Ice Service don’t rely on models like DMI. Here’s one of their sea ice maps for the Western Arctic:

    http://GreatWhiteCon.info/resources/arctic-regional-graphs/beaufort-sea-ice-graphs/

    All that bright green stuff is 90 – 120 cm thick.

    • R. Shearer says:

      Wow, massive ice growth in the last 6 days but then again it is still winter.

    • AndyG55 says:

      Whole area is -30ºC….

      You fail to make any point, yet again, Jimbo.

      Take your foot out of your gob before you type.

    • Gail Combs says:

      OH, WOW,
      Jimmy Boy CONFIRMS 120 cm= 1.2 meters.

      Notice the ‘clawed hand’ on the lower left in kelly green (medium 1st ice) on Jimmy’s picture is the SAME ‘clawed hand’ on the upper left, western end of the ‘North West Passage’ which is shown as purple (0.5 meter) —> blue = (1.5 meters) on Tony’s 2017 graph.

      Keys to Using and Understanding the World Meteorological Organization Colour Codes
      http://www.ec.gc.ca/glaces-ice/default.asp?lang=En&n=D5F7EA14-1&offset=2&toc=show

      Note date on Jimmy Boy’s graph is 2017/02/20 a week ago.
      http://iceweb1.cis.ec.gc.ca/Prod/page3.xhtml
      >>>>>>>>

      HEY JIMMY BOY — YOU LOSE but nice try.

      • Jim Hunt says:

        Gail – That allows easy comparison with this one from 2008. Can you spot the difference?

        • AndyG55 says:

          You would agree that there is far more sea ice now than there was for most of the first 3/4 of the Holocene, wouldn’t you Jimbo ? Yes or No

          Let’s see if Jimbo will answer, or if he WILL cowardly grovel away or avoid.

          • griff says:

            Unless we had now the same conditions influencing sea ice as during the first 3/4 of the Holocene, the comparison is meaningless.

            I don’t know why you keep repeating this – it has no bearing on conditions now and especially on the conditions we can expect to see in the future.

          • RAH says:

            So Griff says that studying how and why the climate changed in the past has no bearing on better understanding how and why the climate changes in the present or future.

            Yep! Your a class one leftist twit.

            The fact is Griff it is ONLY by learning about the physical processes of the climate of past ages can we have a perspective and understanding of what is happening and why now and what to expect in the future.
            Why do they keep temperature records Griff?
            Why do they use proxies to try and understand the paleoclimate? I guess all of those scientists that have been doing that kind of work have just been doing it for shits & giggles?

          • gator69 says:

            That’s just it RAH, the genocidal alarmists want us to believe that after 4.5 billion years of natural climate variations, the climate somehow stabilized until man started driving SUV’s.

            That way they can keep on starving 21,000 poor brown people to death every single day.

          • AndyG55 says:

            poor griff. WILFUL IGNORANCE of past Arctic sea ice is all you have left to support your idiotic AGW brained-washed belief.

            NO we don’t have the same conditions.. the temperature is currently lower than the first 3/4 of the Holocene, and as expected, the Arctic sea ice is greater in extent.

            We are still only a small bump above the COLDEST period in the last 10,000 years.

            I know this FACT totally destroys the myth of AGW, but that is something YOU have to deal with…

            … and your coping mechanism is DENIAL.

          • RAH says:

            Yea, the climate data from the past is so unimportant that Michael Mann, Phil jones, and a supporting cast spent considerable effort trying to change the record so the UN IPCC could adopt their fake papers without much scientific review for support of their own climate change agenda. Then there is Gavin Schmidt and his “adjustments” of 100 year old temperature records.

          • Jim Hunt says:

            Andy – I have repeatedly offered you a platform from which to promote your views concerning Arctic sea ice levels “for most of the first 3/4 of the Holocene”

            https://realclimatescience.com/2017/01/record-arctic-ice-growth-continues-2/#comment-37893

            You have consistently refused! What’s your definition of “cowardly grovel away or avoid”?

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            We can say that Hunt and Griff, our dynamic duo, are not anxious to reveal what observation would falsify their excellent hypothesis but we know they were busy.

          • Gail Combs says:

            Griffy DENIER of CLIMATE CYCLES!

            DENYING
            FIVE MILLION YEARS of CLIMATE OSCILLATION between the COLD PHASE and the WARM PHASE of earth’s BI-STABLE CLIMATE

        • AndyG55 says:

          Yes, you have deliberately picked up a larger area in the 2008 version.

          There is a lot more grice , (that’s the purple, only 10-15cm thick) in 2008 than 2017

          Old ice in the NW passage is more extensive in 2017

        • Gail Combs says:

          “Measurements are taken at approximately the same location every year on a weekly basis, starting after freeze-up when the ice is safe to walk on, and continuing until break-up or when the ice becomes unsafe. The location is selected close to shore, but over a depth of water which will exceed the maximum ice thickness.”
          http://www.ec.gc.ca/glaces-ice/default.asp?lang=En&n=E1B3129D-1

  6. CO2isLife says:

    You called this one right. I was tracking your prediction you made a few weeks ago.
    Smoking Gun #29: Global Sea Ice Sophistry
    https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2017/01/28/climate-science-on-trial-sea-ice-sophistry/

  7. Andy DC says:

    Jim/Griff,

    Is it true that we are reaching a saturation threshold with respect to CO2 being an effective greenhouse gas, and as you exceed the saturation threshold, any additional CO2 will have little or no warming affect?

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