The Flat Earth Society Of Climate Experts

Climate experts believe that the Arctic will become ice-free, because they don’t understand that the Earth is round.

The Argus-Press – Google News Archive Search

Arctic Sea Ice Gone in Summer Within Five Years?

They look at two dimensional maps like this one from September 1 last year, and imagine that the ice is going to keep melting back towards the pole.

N_20170901_extn_v3.0.png (420×500)

What they don’t understand is that the Earth is round, and that by September, the North Pole is receiving almost no sunlight. Thus there is no energy source to melt the ice.

By the end of August, temperatures north of 80N have dropped below freezing.

Ocean and Ice Services | Danmarks Meteorologiske Institut

The only time the pole can melt is a 70 day window in June, July and August, when the Northern Hemisphere is tipped towards the Sun.

Another important corollary of this is that the Arctic sea ice minimum and maximum are nearly irrelevant to climate, because they both occur near the equinox when no sunlight is reaching the pole.  This time of year is important, because there is lots of sunlight, and the bright white ice reflects the Sun’s rays and cools the Earth. The whole concept of Arctic albedo feedback is based on junk science.

N_20180501_extn_v3.0.png (420×500)

Sea ice extent, thickness and volume are all normal, yet the Flat Earth Society of climate scientists drones on endlessly about an ice-free Arctic – which they will never live to see.

Ocean and Ice Services | Danmarks Meteorologiske Institut

FullSize_CICE_combine_thick_SM_EN_20180503.png (1337×1113)

FullSize_CICE_combine_thick_SM_EN_20180503.png (1337×1113)

Climate experts don’t seem to understand any of the fundamentals of chemistry, physics or geology – which is why are perfectly suited heroes for graduates of Common Core education.

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74 Responses to The Flat Earth Society Of Climate Experts

  1. Griff says:

    When they say ice free, the definition is ice free at the September minimum…

    Not over the winter.

    That is, the ice will melt out entirely over each summer. And for some hundreds of years at least, freeze over in winter.

    Here’s one definition:

    “An “ice-free” Arctic Ocean is often defined as “having less than 1 million square kilometers of sea ice”, because it is very difficult to melt the thick ice around the Canadian Arctic Archipelago. … ”

    (though the once fast ice in that archipelago is increasingly mobile)

    and here’s another:

    “By “ice-free”, scientists usually mean a sea ice extent of less than one million square kilometres, rather than zero sea ice cover.

    There’s a good reason for this. Arctic sea ice isn’t just found in the central Arctic Ocean, but also along the northern coastlines of the US, Greenland, Russia and Canada, and in the narrow channels of the Canadian Arctic Archipelago. And it is thicker in these regions than in the central Arctic Ocean.

    Scientists expect, therefore, that sea ice will be present there a little longer than it will out in the central Arctic Ocean. This means as sea ice continues to decline, we will reach a point where the central Arctic Ocean will be largely ice-free, but remnants of ice will still remain along the northern coastlines of Canada, Alaska, and Greenland. Scientists therefore chose the one million square kilometre threshold to represent a practically ice-free Arctic Ocean.”

    • tonyheller says:

      Twice the size of Texas is the new zero.
      There is not enough solar energy reaching North of 80N to melt through most of the ice during the summer.

      • R. Shearer says:

        Other means of heat transfer to the Arctic include ocean currents and volcanism. Wind currents of course are a means of mass transport of ice out of the Arctic. Changing definitions is the most likely man made factor that would lead to an ice free Arctic, however, which is in line with the dubious nature of climate science these days.

    • AndyG55 says:

      “An “ice-free” Arctic Ocean”

      the numerical equivalent of 1 Wadham.. !!

      Well that never happened, did it !!

      You do know that be that reckoning, The Arctic was probably “ice free” in summer for most of the first 9000 or so years of the Holocene.

      And guess what, griff …….. THE WORLD IS STILL HERE. !!

      Polar bears lived through that “ice-free” 9000 years, did you know that, griff???

      Trees and old human artefact are being found under glaciers as they shrink back to a more NORMAL size.

      You really have a gullibly small and non-functional mind, don’t you griff.

      • RAH says:

        No, to be like Griff and those she believes have the knowledge of such things, one just has to ignore the bits of science that falsifies their current beliefs or, if necessary, believe the revisionists, like Mann, who try to eliminate the record, or explain it away.

      • Griff says:

        yes very likely there WAS an ice free arctic ocean in the early holocene…

        though of course what caused that was an orbital influence not present today.

        which proves it can happen and directly contradicts Tony’s assertion that it is impossible???

        • Gator says:

          Still not showing your work. List all forcings, list them by efficacy, and prove it was an orbital issue that melted the ice. Then disprove natural variability for recent ice loss.

          Ignorant claims are all you have. That and your hatred of poor brown people.

          • Disillusioned says:

            I enjoy it when you ask GHG fearmongers these questions. I like the longer version. As far as I can tell, not one of them has ever attempted to answer you and try to list them, let alone quantify them.

          • Griff says:

            why bother? all I’d get from you is a refusal to look at the evidence and a repeat of your mantra.

          • AndyG55 says:

            Griff yet again shows JUST HOW EMPTY HE IS.

            Runs away with his fairy-tail between his legs

            You have ZERO evidence , and you KNOW IT.

          • Gator says:

            Ms Griff says…

            why bother?

            Yes, why indeed? Your refusal to admit that there is no proof of man made global climate change is working just as you hoped, you and your peers are exterminating poor brown people by the millions annually.

            But just for the record, you cannot show that CO2 is making any changes to global temperatures.

            You are simply in love with the genocide.

        • Disillusioned says:

          Griff: “….though of course what caused that was an orbital influence not present today.

          which proves it can happen and directly contradicts Tony’s assertion that it is impossible???”

          Adding extra question marks won’t make *your* assertion truthful. Tony said, “There is not enough solar energy reaching North of 80N to melt through most of the ice during the summer.” As far as I can tell, Tony has never dismissed natural cycles.

          At least you recognize natural cycles are real. Essentially, doesn’t a cycle essentially mean, ‘what goes around, comes around’? That includes the next ice age, which your ilk believe will be averted by a minuscule amount of fairy dust added to the atmosphere by humans. ;-P

          • Disillusioned says:

            Hmmm, that annoying redundancy bug is [essentially] back again. :-)

          • Griff says:

            clearly there is enough energy reaching the ice to melt it in summer. Ponder that.

          • Disillusioned says:

            What type of energy would that be, Griff?

          • AndyG55 says:

            Clearly there was enough energy to melt FAR MORE during the MWP and the 8000 years before.

            And not , don’t try the farce of Milankovitch cycles. Only axial tilt applies, and the Holocene Optimum was whole planet.

        • AndyG55 says:

          WRONG again griff.

          Your knowledge of everything is basically zero.

          Especially Milankovitch cycles

          Do you still like to compare now to the Eemian epoch?

          The LIA was the anomaly, what we have now is a RECOVERY very slightly back to more normal levels.

        • Robert Austin says:

          So you admit that an “ice free” Arctic probably occurred naturally in the early Holocene. So what is the problem with an “ice free” Arctic possibly occuring again in our time. Warm is good, cold sucks, end of discussion.

    • Kent Clizbe says:

      So, “Ice-Free” does not really mean “Free of Ice.”

      Unfortunately, words have meanings.

      It is either free of ice, or there is still ice there.

      Being Ice-Free while ice actually remains would be sort of like being “a little bit pregnant.”

      No such thing.

    • GW Smith says:

      Griff – You are looking towards a future where everything will be the same, where all cycles will end. When in history has this ever happened? Never. “Oh, but this time is different, man has never been so powerful, so polluting, so destructive. This time all cycles will cease and the world will enter an endless state of heat and toxicity.” Sounds like hell. Maybe the earth will stop rotating and orbiting the sun due to mankind’s behavior. Sure.

      • Griff says:

        sure there are always cycles… the solar cycle, AMO, milankovitch cycles all tick on and all influence the climate. That does not exclude a new and additional effect on climate from human produced CO2 increasing. You argue for leaving a known atmospheric change with known impacts entirely out of climate science

        • AndyG55 says:

          There is absolutely ZERO proof that CO2 has any effect on temperatures. It does not have ANY scientifically provable effects.

          You argue from a point of ANTI-SCIENCE FANTASY.

    • Disillusioned says:

      Griff said, “When they say ice free, the definition is ice free at the September minimum…

      Not over the winter.”

      Why do you keep replying to claims not ever made?

  2. Griff says:

    “Sea ice extent, thickness and volume are all normal”

    That is absolutely not the case.


    “Sea ice extent in the Bering Sea remains at record low levels for this time of year. Total ice extent over the Arctic Ocean also remains low and consists of a record-high amount of first-year ice. This means the ice cover is unusually thin and large areas are susceptible to melting out in this coming summer.”

    • tonyheller says:

      Yes it is.

      • Griff says:

        I am obliged, by long British tradition, to reply ‘Oh no its not!’

        • Latitude says:

          I don’t think I’ve seen too many things as stupid as using floating ice as some litmus test on how cold or warm it is..
          Wind blows it one way…you get less extent and thicker ice….wind blows it the other way…you get thinner ice and more extent until the wind blows it out

          • Griff says:

            If the ice is not a lot thinner, it does NOT blow about…

            The arctic ocean used to be 4 to 5 metres thick across the bulk of its area in winter… now you would be hard put to find much over 3 metres.

          • Disillusioned says:

            Since when, Griff? Since 1979?

          • AndyG55 says:

            Yep the ice was a LOT thicker during the LIA COLD anomaly, and the late 1970’s was up there with that EXTREM.

            FAR above normal.

            Unfortunately, the RECOVERY form that FREEZING COLD anomaly seems to have come to an end, with the sea ice extent STILL in the top 10% of the last 10,000 years.

            Why do you remain MORONICALLY IGNORANT about that fact, griff ?

          • Gator says:

            The arctic ocean used to be 4 to 5 metres thick across the bulk of its area in winter… now you would be hard put to find much over 3 metres.

            There used to be a sheet of ice a mile thick where my house stands today. So what?

            Natural variability can explain all ice loss we see today.

    • Gator says:

      Ms Griff is right. There is currently more ice in the Arctic than the average of the past 9000 years. What educated people might call an “abnormally” high amount of ice for this interglacial.

      But what virtually everyone agrees is abnormal, is the hatred of poor brown people displayed by Arctic ice alarmists.

      • Griff says:

        Ms Griff is right.

        I knew you’d come round eventually…

        • Gator says:

          So you agree that there is no reason to be concerned about the Arctic ice?

          Once again Ms Griff shows her arguments are only half the truth, and omit the facts necessary to realize the truth.

        • R. Shearer says:

          Typical of this mentality, agreement by deception or any means is just fine.

    • sunsettommy says:

      Bering sea ALWAYS melt out in the summer, thus you are misleading here.

    • AZ1971 says:

      Griff wrote: “Total ice extent over the Arctic Ocean also remains low and consists of a record-high amount of first-year ice.”

      Record-high amount of first-year ice? Based on what metric, thickness, and source? The ice thickness graphs displayed by Tony show an awful lot of 2+ meter-thick ice, which, by definition, is not first-year ice.

      For further clarification Griff, the Bering Sea ≠ the Arctic Ocean … just like correlation ≠ causation.

  3. RAH says:

    And even when the sun is highest at the N. Pole during the summer solstice it is only 23.5 deg. above the horizon.

    As more relatively warm open water is exposed during the summer as the insulating layer of ice retreats more clouds form and thus partially replacing the albedo of the ice and snow.

    It is an amazing world we live on and we are fortunate to live in relatively very boring times in the aspect of geologic activity and climate as gauged by the events of the past.

    • tonyheller says:

      Haven’t heard from you for a long time!

      • RAH says:

        Got the impression that many of my posts here were not exactly appreciated so I took a break posting here.

        BTW there are some Rose-brested Grosbeaks at my feeder. Though where I live is shown to be on the edge of their range I have never seen them hang around to nest and they just pass through on their way to points north and east of here. Why this is of interest though is that in the 18 years we have lived in this house and I have been feeding the birds I can’t recall a single time we had a hard frost after I saw those birds at my feeder in the spring. We got down to 29 F here last Saturday and now the following weekend we have Grosbeaks. So spring here has sprung and my wife is planting her flowers since we take the coming of the Grosbeaks as a more accurate indication of the changing of the seasons than what meteorologists or folklore indicate.

        • tonyheller says:

          Where did you get that idea?

          • RAH says:

            Several posts from different sources and a couple from a poster “Fundme”. Really not important. Just a truck driver doing his thing.

            BTW, This truck driver doesn’t need government numbers to tell the economy is going gangbusters.
            Truck traffic is brutal these days. The shippers and receivers I pick up at and deliver to are obviously busy. At the shippers there are more lines of pallets ready for shipment. And we guaranteed drivers were kept very busy during the first three months of the year which is usually a slow time. Lots of overtime days for all six of us.

            Rail Road traffic in Anderson, IN seems at least as heavy if not heavier than I have ever seen it. They have gone from 20 trains passing through the city a day to 60.

            Back in 1933 John Dillinger robbed several banks in Indiana around the Anderson area. Said he didn’t hit Anderson because of the train traffic.

            “Banks allegedly robbed by John Dillinger and his associates included the Commercial Bank, Daleville, Indiana of $3,500 on July 17, 1933; Montpelier National Bank, Montpelier, Indiana of $6,700 on August 4, 1933; Bluffton Bank, Bluffton, Ohio, of $6,000 on August 14, 1933; Massachusetts Avenue State Bank, Indianapolis, Indiana, of $21,000 on September 6, 1933; Central Nation Bank and Trust Co., Greencastle, Indiana of $76,000 on October, 23, 1933; American Bank and Trust Co., Racine, Wisconsin of $28,000 on November 20, 1933; Unity Trust and Savings Bank, Chicago, Illinois of $8,700 on December 13, 1933; First National Bank, East Chicago, Indiana of $20,000 on January, 15, 1934; Securities National Bank and Trust Co., Sioux Falls, South Dakota of $49,500 on March 6, 1934; First National Bank, Mason City, Iowa of $52,000 on March 13, 1934; and Merchants National Bank, South Bend, Indiana of $29,890 on June 30, 1934.”

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            And here I was getting worried some moron forced you off the road, RAH.

            Good to hear from you!

          • RAH says:

            Nope! Though I did have one catch my driver side mirror last week with his trailer when he came over the solid white line on the very narrow lanes in the construction on I-75 just north of Toledo. No damage done. Just reached out while still driving and pulled the mirror back in place. Like I said Truck traffic is brutal these days.

        • arn says:

          Nice to see that your business is doing well.

        • neal s says:

          I understand how important trucks are to this countries economy and I have often enjoyed RAH’s posts where he shares a little of what he sees in his travels. It also seems that he has a wealth of historical knowledge .

          Interesting times are ahead for the USA. If we don’t see numerous people who have been working hard to destroy this country, being charged with at least some of their crimes before November elections, then I will be greatly dismayed. It would be good to at least step back from the edge a little, rather than going over and then plunging to our collective doom.

        • R. Shearer says:

          I enjoy hearing about your travels and travails. Cheers

  4. RAH says:

    They are also ignoring the fact that solar activity has flat lined.

    Though I am highly skeptical of the claims that we are entering a mini-ice age. I’m convinced that things are cooling and will generally cool for some time to come.

    Joe Bastardi seems pretty convinced that we’re going to have a mild El Nino this year. He believes it will probably be of the Modoki type. If so, we will once again see a release of thermal energy and the satellite temps will show an increase in the global average. I suspect it will be a just a blip in the current downward trend.

    • Griff says:

      considering solar activity HAs indeed flatlined, it seems odd there is no associated increase in arctic sea ice levels.

      • RAH says:

        What data are you looking at? The NH had exceptional snow coverage this year and Arctic ice has been increasing!

      • Gator says:

        Ms Griff does not know that 70% of his New Earth’s surface is water, which takes decades to cool. Ms Griff is an expert on exterminating poor brown people, but has zero useful knowledge of our planet.

  5. Chaeremon says:

    Re: sea ice minimum and maximum are nearly irrelevant to climate, because they both occur near the equinox when no sunlight is reaching the pole.

    This (temperatures near equinox) is why I want to make certain selections with your program. Is it possible you upload the version currently in use; I can edit and run python; needless to say you will receive feedback (and/or routines) if I stumbled upon something.


  6. RH says:

    Hansen and his merry band of denier scum were drooling with delight in 20012. Now they’re peeing their pants watching the Arctic sea ice recover.

    As an aside, have you noticed how silent the deniers are about the low levels of Antarctic sea ice? That’s because they spent a decade telling everyone that the record high amounts of ice were actually caused by global warming. Hoist with their own petard.

  7. Ice Age 2050 says:

    Another fatal mistake climate “experts” make is talking at all about the sea ice extent. Sea ice extent is a two-dimensional surface/plane. Sea ice volume is the only thing that matters…nevertheless sea ice THICKNESS is right on average. There has been no change in the volume of Arctic Sea Ice since 1980

    • arn says:

      A good point
      as arctic regions that are hit with warmer water streams will prevent sea ice extent while those with colder ones can massivly increase in volume when the air is cold enough though no growth would be visible from the top down view.

  8. Steelman says:

    Well, in the 70s, they said ice in the arctic was not normal. Russia and US, talked about ways to melt the Arctic, because it caused the cold weather, back then.
    Yet, today, they claim a melting Arctic, causing the cold winter and late spring, f###.
    Can’t make this shit up. And on top of that, the ice in the Arctic is normal.
    Somtimes i think that i have been beemed into some absurd paralel planet.

    • arn says:

      Good Doers & scientists obviously are diva’s-
      no matter what is and even when they get what they want
      they’ll still find ways to complain.

      • Steelman says:

        It’s absurd, any way you look at it. Takes just a little intererest in, lest’s say, the last 250 years of history, and the co2 theory is whacked. For Gods sake, am i dreaming?

        • arn says:

          There are so many things one need just to research a bit to realise how many plottholes they have and they won’t stand a critical investigation and that the truth is far away from the official version.
          But people are either too afraid,too lazy or are lied into submission.
          Or to quote straight from the horses mouth(in this case Noahm Scumsky)
          “The smart way to keep people passive and obedient
          is to STRICTLY limit the spectrum of accepptable opinion(=the purpose of political correctness) but allow very lively debate within this spectrum”

          This is 100% fascist((and nothing groundbreaking new as this was always the modus operandi of evil ideologies and their only way to survive)

  9. Peter Murray says:

    Climate changes slowly and weather changes rapidly. There are many who confuse the two, blaming man and coal for bush fires, floods and every other extreme weather event. The Greens and others claim the sky is falling. Even yesterday a silly Chair of the Australian Energy Security Board claimed coal is a more expensive source of energy than wind, solar, etc. What rot! If coal is so expensive, why do we subsidise the others?

    • RAH says:

      If coal is so precious in OZ then why is it the largest net exporter of coal in the world according to the CIA fact book? Why sell something so precious to the PRC so the Chinese can use the energy it produces to manufacture solar panels that they then sell back to OZ? The more I have read JoNova’s blog posts about the what is happening in Australia the more I am beginning to believe that the government is trying to make the country into an economic basket case in order to gain as much control over the population as it can.

      • arn says:

        The sam think bama&bush tried
        by outsourcing jobs,destroying the middle class
        and shutting down coal power plants.

    • Robertv says:

      Give it a bad name and tax its use so it becomes more expensive than the competition. It’s not that difficult for a government to ruin an economy .

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