My Bicycle Never Runs Out Power

Posted on March 1, 2015 by Tony Heller

If you turn on the heat in your electric car, you probably won’t make it home. Might as well take a bicycle like I do.

ScreenHunter_7570 Mar. 01 09.23

Cold weather kills electric car range | MNN – Mother Nature Network

About Tony Heller

Just having fun
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62 Responses to My Bicycle Never Runs Out Power

  1. DakotaKid says:
    March 1, 2015 at 2:39 pm

    I once designed a cold weather battery that maintained performance in cold weather. I never built that battery (actually cell in the terminology of electrochemistry) because I could not afford the precious metals to be used in its construction.

    Reply
  2. Chris Barron says:
    March 1, 2015 at 2:49 pm

    Some manufacturers are seriously considering fitting bidirectional power inverters, to allow the car’s battery to be used to produce AC during power outages. One Prius owner already did something similar http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/01/04/ice_storm_2013_toyota_prius_powers_thornhill_mans_home.html

    The usual problem for electric cars is that they cannot be charged with as much energy when they’re cold, so to negate that some DIY EV builders install pack heaters.Some manufacturers are also doing it now too.

    Electric drive is still a good idea for many good engineering reasons, simplicity, efficiency etc…..that other electricity sources are being continuously developed
    http://www.intelligentliving.co/salt-water-powered-car-gets-european-approval/
    (Although it says ‘salt water’ it really means ionic salts….but you can simple refill with electrolytes to continue on your journey with something like this, providing the convenience of gas staion-like refill convenience

    Reply
    • nielszoo says:
      March 1, 2015 at 3:43 pm

      So, are the pack heaters electric or do you install a bunch of Jon-E or Zippo hand warmers and run them on white gas? If they’re electric do they have a net increase in output or do you end up in the same place energy wise.

      I’ve got a great idea. Why don’t you invent a vehicle that uses stored solar and geothermal energy in a solid or liquid form? If you pick the right fluid it could have a wide temperature range and store a lot of energy. Something like a base of C8H18 and an engine that could release the 42 MJ/kg in a controlled way. That might be a better alternative in cold climates or for reasonable distances, heavy loads, ease of use, no charging required. It sounds ideal to me. Keep the electric as a small site vehicle (I have 2 electric carts) where constant starting and stopping are hard on the new, liquid fueled engine.

      Do I need to add the </sarc> tag?

      Reply
    • Gail Combs says:
      March 1, 2015 at 4:49 pm

      I WIN!!!

      ELECTRIC CARS… just think of the energy loss:
      Mine metals (Energy loss)
      smelt metals (energy loss)
      Transport raw materials (energy loss)
      Manufacture battery, car, charger, Wind turbine or Solar panel (energy loss)
      Transport Turbine or panel (energy loss)
      convert solar ===> electric (max 40%) Solar converted to electric via Wind is even worse.
      Transmission lines (energy loss)
      charging characteristics of charger (energy loss)
      Coulombic Efficiency of battery (0.60 to 0.85 – 0.95 under ideal conditions.)

      Pony/horse born on property eats grass grown on property. If I ride I can use the leather (brain tanned) from my sheep/goats for a bridle and bareback pad. Wooden bit or bosal for control, wooden stirrups…

      Heck I can use goats or sheep or oxen which are much more efficient hayburners.

      http://horseandman.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/RGPS_TR___Friends.jpg
      (and yes I have ridden a longhorn, hubby has ridden one of our sheep and our donkey.)

      http://horseandman.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Screen-Shot-2014-07-20-at-2.59.18-PM.png

      But I have not ridden a short horn.

      Reply
  3. Bob123 says:
    March 1, 2015 at 3:00 pm

    Not to mention that Coal is the largest single source of electic power generation in the US. These Electric cars are effectively coal powered cars. The carbon is simply generated further up stream.

    Reply
    • Chris Barron says:
      March 1, 2015 at 8:22 pm

      Coal is the largest single source of electricity in the UK too, Bob, but we can’t say the cars are effectively coal powered.
      We only get 35% of electricity from coal. It is the largest contributor, but it’s a long way off being enough to say electric cars are coal powered.

      The US mix is …oh wait a minute, it is only 48%, with a target of 21% coal by 2035.
      It’s a long way from saying the electric cars are coal powered…..

      Reply
      • Bob123 says:
        March 1, 2015 at 8:46 pm

        Point taken; However, unless we are building a lot of new nuclear power plants, the fact remains that these “zero emission” vehicles are still responsible for a heck of a lot of emissions.

        Reply
        • Gail Combs says:
          March 1, 2015 at 9:33 pm

          Bob, the real problem is if electric cars become a major part of the fleet you are adding a huge burden at the same time you are dismantling the electric generating capacity.

          The real reason for the push for electric cars is to get you to pay for the batteries that the electric companies want to use to store their erratic power. (It also lets them control your travel more easily.)

          …The basis of “dynamic demand” is regulating the grid not by adding capacity but by adjusting (i.e., removing or shifting) the demand continuously, using (in one system) the frequency of the electricity supply as the trigger….. When it drops below a certain frequency level (which happens when the supply is low), the system is geared to shed load….

          In the case of electric cars in the V2G system, charging is interrupted – thus the load is shed. But, as an added refinement, the accumulated power is returned to the system as a contribution to stabilising the frequency. When there is an excess of power in the grid, the electricity frequency increases and the cars start charging again, bring the frequency back down.

          When the car batteries are fully charged, there is even a suggestion that the car heaters should be automatically turned on, to use up the “wrong-time” electricity.…

          The importance of this cannot be over-emphasised. The historical relationship between supplier and customer has been completely turned on its head. Instead of providing the capacity to meet demand, industry is required to make its priority “decarbonisation”.
          http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=83851

          ….the report said, “No longer is it considered viable for electricity to be provided ‘on demand’ in response to the requirements of end-users”. Rather, it said, “a co-ordinated approach is required whereby energy production and demand become integrated to ensure the use of renewables can be optimised whilst also minimising the use of fossil fired generation”.

          In other words, the primary objective of the electricity industry is not to meet demand, but to enable the optimum usage of renewables…
          http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=83847

        • Chris Barron says:
          March 2, 2015 at 10:23 am

          “fact remains that these “zero emission” vehicles are still responsible for a heck of a lot of emissions.”

          Yes, but still considerably less than a petrol car (assuming your concern is emmissions)

          The energy efficiency from using a generator or turbine running at peak efficiency, in the manner which they’e operated at the power station, is always going to be better than using an internal combustion energy in a less efficient way when driving a road vehicle directly.

        • Chris Barron says:
          March 3, 2015 at 11:01 am

          Gail said “Bob, the real problem is if electric cars become a major part of the fleet you are adding a huge burden at the same time you are dismantling the electric generating capacity”

          Most electric car owners are expected to charge their vehicles at night. I only have he UK figures to hand, so using them in this example…

          Peak demand = 60GW, at around lunchtime and 17:30hrs
          Off Peak demand = 15GW, after 10pm and steady through the night

          The grid is capable of supplying 60GW, but during the night when most charging will be done the demand is about 25% of peak.

          There can be very little argument that night time charging will add any burden to the existing grid.

          More and more people are doing this (see video) and clearly, they are ‘adding a huge burden’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yvBtccWnp4 😉

          I have a 200Amp supply to my house and intend to use it for the things I choose, thanks

      • Gail Combs says:
        March 1, 2015 at 9:24 pm

        You are both conflating COAL = CO2.

        However if you are talking CO2 producing energy generation it is 68.9%</b. and with one third of the Nuclear fleet possibly closing down that could become as much as 75.4%. (Dams are also being torn out)

        http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/IER-Grid-Project-Electricity-Generation-20131.png

        Reply
        • Chris Barron says:
          March 2, 2015 at 10:30 am

          I just want to point out Gail, that when I presented you with the same energy mix chart a number of weeks ago you declared it to be wrong and inaccurate

          You seem to agree that it is now accurate, so will you also accept that the UK energy mix contained 18% wind when you declared that to be incorrect also ?

  4. nigelf says:
    March 1, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    My V8 Silverado never runs out of power either.
    The wheel doesn’t need to be re-invented, despite the squealing of human-hating earth worshipping greenies.

    Reply
  5. omanuel says:
    March 1, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    Groupthink prevents advancement in engineering, as well as in science.

    Society must find a way to regain the freedoms we lost during unreported events in AUG-SEPT 1945, just prior to the formation of the UN in OCT 1945.

    Reply
  6. nielszoo says:
    March 1, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    Steven, if you don’t make regular trips to Whole Foods (or other food distribution point) then yes, your bike will run out of power.

    Reply
  7. Adam Gallon says:
    March 1, 2015 at 3:52 pm

    If all you do is commute in a city or want to pop out to the shops, they’re fine. Useful to soak up power produced overnight by the bird & bat mincing machines too.
    However, there’s potentially a downside, as noted here. http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=83851
    When everyone switches their kettles on for their breakfast tea or coffee, you might find that your battery’s been drained!

    Reply
    • nielszoo says:
      March 1, 2015 at 4:18 pm

      The battery packs are extremely dangerous in crashes as well. You can’t render them “safe” just by denying them oxygen with an extinguishing agent like you can a diesel or gasoline vehicle. The lead acid cells that I’ve got in my carts are heavy, but relatively safe compared to the lightweight LiPo cells electric cars.

      Reply
    • Gail Combs says:
      March 1, 2015 at 6:07 pm

      That goes back to my comments on Duke Energy starting HERE.

      Duke is the biggest suppler in the USA. The 2007 Chairman’s Letter to Stakeholders said:

      ….At Duke Energy, we have two aspirations that guide our planning and serve as a bridge to the future: (1) Modernize and decarbonize our generation fleet, and (2) Help make the communities we serve the most energy efficient in the world.
      …

      Notice that Duke Is not giving the CUSTOMERS any say about becoming ” the most energy efficient in the world” they are going to MAKE them “the most energy efficient in the world.
      …”

      Also note that duk said in another document:
      “While Duke encountered opt-out requests during the meter deployment, personal contact with individual customers, local leadership, regulatory staff, and legislative leaders, helped defuse the opt-out issue for the majority of the deployment timeframe…”

      This is because they took the boiling the frog slowly route. They can truthfully say the smart meters do nothing but communicate and make finding outage problems easier. What they do not say is complete control of your home by the power company/government is waiting in the wings as the coal plants go off line thanks to the EPA.

      Mean while there is the aggressive brainwashing campaign.
      Energy Revolution: Our Energy Efficiency in Schools Program Educating our youth about energy conservation

      …………….

      You can see the conserve/recycle brainwashing has permeated the entire culture.

      Plastics are a really great example. I have muck buckets I bought over twenty five years ago that I still use. They are darn near indestructible. I have new ‘recycled’ plastic muck buckets and they crack, disintegrate and self-destruct in a few years. I am lucky to go three to five years without replacing them. The handles go in six months.

      Has recycling actually helped?

      Reply
      • nigelf says:
        March 1, 2015 at 6:21 pm

        I’ve always contended that there is no reason whatsoever to conserve electricity, other than political. There’s just no logical or moral reason to do so. As society advances or buys more electrical stuff or just grows it’s population then the only answer is to generate more electricity to meet that growing demand.
        To do anything to stifle generation is to go against what the vast majority of the people want. To do anything that increases the price is to go against what the vast majority wants.

        Reply
        • nigelf says:
          March 1, 2015 at 6:28 pm

          Also, recycling as government policy should be scrapped immediately. Throw it in the ground like we’ve always done. With pit liners and modern monitoring, burying it is not a problem at all. The only problem is an emotional one, people don’t “like” dumps.
          Take the emotions out of it and dumps are the ideal cost-effective way to deal with our garbage.
          Once again though, the earth-worshipping liberals who control the education system have brainwashed us to think of dumps as bad for the environment and we must be bad people for using or wanting them.

        • Chris Barron says:
          March 2, 2015 at 11:04 pm

          I don’t think the problem is a lack of electricity either, but the limiting factor is instead the poorly managed, underfunded grid which is inadequate….but which of course, no consumer wants to put their hand in their pocket for to resolve.

  8. SMS says:
    March 1, 2015 at 4:41 pm

    My bike always has a flat tire when there is snow on the ground and I’m the one holding the ice pick.

    Reply
    • NancyG says:
      March 1, 2015 at 5:50 pm

      So I see an article at Think Progress .org that lambasts hydrogen cell fuel cars and it says:

      “In any case, we have this huge global warming problem going on right now. We aren’t going to go to all the trouble of creating a premium solution — zero-carbon electricity — only to throw away most of it as part of some elaborate hydrogen FCV scheme, a scheme that also requires the creation of an elaborate and expensive new system of green hydrogen production and/or delivery infrastructure. That’s particularly true when we can just run EVs on the premium carbon-free power directly (or, for that matter, simply continue to slash vehicle CO2 emissions through the straightforward continuation of fuel economy improvements).
      So yes, hydrogen Is “an incredibly dumb” car fuel, especially if you are concerned about global warming.”

      Zero carbon electricity? In what lifetime?

      Then I read a 2013 blog post at Nature .org about getting to zero carbon electricity and it sounds like science fiction. Re-do the whole grid, have wireless chargers in the road so idling vehicles could charge their battery, work on storage for electricity, all it would take is political will. Is “political will” code for a sh1t ton of money?

      Then I’m reading about lithium-ion batteries for enrgy storage but these things are 10 by 40 feet in size. So to pump out less CO2 the greens are willing to destroy nature by adding solar panels and wind turbines everywhere, and now huge batteries? Not to mention what effect on nature producing all these things takes. And then your rubber, synthetic fabrics and paddings, plastic dashboards etc., and battery production all takes evil oil to produce anyway.

      I don’t get it. And I don’t want to live in a world that is covered in wind turbines, solar panels, and giant batteries dotting the landscape. I’d rather go back to caves, at least when I walk outside I’ll see nature in all her glory.

      Oh, and it’s snowing again on LI.

      Reply
      • Gail Combs says:
        March 1, 2015 at 6:26 pm

        As I said I dumped a lot of the information on this in an earlier comment this morning starting HERE.

        …………..

        Duke Energy Receives $22 Million Federal Grant for Wind Power Storage

        Duke Energy intends to match a $22 million grant from the U.S. Department of Energy to design, build and install large-scale batteries to store wind energy at one of its wind farms in Texas.

        So Us taxpayers forked over $22 million for these batteries and another $204 Million in 2010 for the smart grid.

        Duke Energy Reaches Agreement with DOE to Accept $204 Million in Stimulus Funds to Support Grid Modernization — May 13, 2010

        There is an earlier 2009 $200 Million in Stimulus Funds for the smart grid but I am not sure if it is a total of $404 million or the same $200 Million mentioned twice.

        The proposed Lee Nuclear plant on the other hand has been placed on the back burner and now Duke plans to go with Natural Gas (Shell Oil anyone?)

        Federal licensing for proposed nuclear plants has been delayed by a court decision that requires the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to reconsider its current position on long-term waste disposal. That means Duke is unlikely to get its license to build and operate the plant until 2016.
        http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/energy/2014/11/reportduke-energy-pushing-back-decision-on-lee.html?page=all

        In the mean time the USA has handed over to China our research on thorium nuclear so they can patent it.

        Energy Subsidies and External Costs

        (Updated November 2014)
        Substantial amounts have been invested in energy R&D over the last 50 years. Much of this has been directed at developing nuclear energy – which now supplies 12% of world electricity.

        Today, apart from Japan and France, there is about twice as much R&D investment in renewables than nuclear, but with rather less to show for it and with less potential for electricity supply.

        Nowhere in the world is nuclear power subsidised per unit of production. In some countries however it is taxed because production costs are so low.

        Renewables have received heavy direct subsidies in the market by various means, but these are being scaled back or abandoned in some places due to the high cost to consumers.

        Fossil fuels receive indirect subsidies in their waste disposal as well as some direct subsidies.

        Nuclear energy fully accounts for its waste disposal and decommissioning costs in financial evaluations.

        Reply
      • Chris Barron says:
        March 1, 2015 at 9:09 pm

        What are you waiting for, Nancy. Go to a cave !
        Bye

        Reply
  11. hannuko says:
    March 1, 2015 at 7:37 pm

    Do not use the heater? I might have just detected a minor bug in the design of electric cars.

    When it is cold, the moisture from your breath freezes on the windscreen very quickly if the heater isn’t on and stops you from seeing where you are going.

    I’d say that is a more than inconvenient.

    When the temperature is really low, the problem presents itself even in cars that run on gasoline. Four years ago it was -36C and I drove 2 hours in the dark while I could only see outside from the lower third of the windscreen, with the heater full on. The rest was opaque from frozen moisture.

    I wonder if you could even get an electric car to start at that temperature.

    Reply
    • Gail Combs says:
      March 1, 2015 at 7:43 pm

      Same goes for rain storms. The last time the dash was apart the mechanic messed up my defrost. you NEED a defrost even in 85F to 95F if it is raining hard.

      Reply
  12. rah says:
    March 1, 2015 at 8:59 pm

    Your bicycle will run out of power when you do Steve. It is all well and good for you in the concentrated urban east to use self motive power For us in the mid west that do not live and work in heavily urban areas, it just won’t cut it.

    I just finished using a snow blower to remove the 7+ inches of snow from my drive and I’m so thankful that I have it. It’s an hour since I finished my and the widow ladies next door drives and I would still be out there if I didn’t have that snow blower.

    Reply
  13. Dave Lowry says:
    March 1, 2015 at 9:38 pm

    I think that global warming is happening, it ia a reality and sometimes, some of us are blaming the wrong factors. We plan to reduce emissions by taking bikes and by reducing energy consumption. This is in vain, as those are not the biggest factors for the global warming. As the climate is defined, it is the continuation of oceans by other means. And every definition we will find for the climate, it will be linked to the oceans (there is an entire discussion at http://www.arctic-warming.com). Having this in mind, I wonder: why do we still talk about cars? Why don’t we focus on the oceans and their functions?

    Reply
  14. B says:
    March 2, 2015 at 6:48 am

    Oh with a big enough head wind after enough miles one can find himself unable to proceed forward on bicycle. I have on rare occasion. However I was able to get going again in a few seconds.

    Electric cars are just for a small niche market. If we had a free market they would find their place if they could be made and then sold at a profit.

    Reply

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