The Imaginary Arctic Meltdown Continues

DMI continues to show the Arctic melting.

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Ocean and Ice Services | Danmarks Meteorologiske Institut

Their maps show that there has been very little melt over the past three days.

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This is not very surprising, because temperatures have been cold over the Arctic Basin, and are not forecast to warm up much during the next two weeks.

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DMi maps also show that there is more ice this year than last year, in direct contradiction to their graphs.

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88 Responses to The Imaginary Arctic Meltdown Continues

  1. AndyG55 says:

    Greenland is struggling to melt this year, also

    • AndyG55 says:

      No grapes this season ;-)

    • Craig T says:

      Andy forgot the caption for the graph on the right:

      “The graph to the right of the maps shows the percentage of the area of the Greenland ice sheet that has melted every day this season on the blue curve. This can be compared with the dark grey curve that is the average melt area over the period of 1990-2013. The light grey band shows the differences from year to year as the range of each day through this period leaving out the most extreme high and low values each day.”

      More useful was the graph above this showing how the Greenland icecap is always at its thickest at the start of June.
      http://www.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maalinger/greenland-ice-sheet-surface-mass-budget/

      • AndyG55 says:

        Thanks for drawing that to my attention.

        Notice how the blue line in the top pic is right at the top of the grey area… struggling to melt

        and in the bottom pic shows no sign of starting to curve downwards… struggling to melt

        Thanks for confirming my comment above. :-)

        Amazing considering the battering the Arctic has taken from energy released by the El Nino ocean cooling event this year, wouldn’t you say.

        ——
        “this period leaving out the most extreme high and low values each day”

        So the latter half of May will be left out of subsequent graphs, is that what you are saying?

        • Craig T says:

          Here is what the DMI is saying:
          “The light grey band shows the differences from year to year as the range of each day through this period leaving out the most extreme high and low values each day.” They also said “For each calendar day, however, the lowest and highest values of the 24 years have been left out.”

          No day will be left out, just the highest and lowest year’s data for that day.

  2. Craig T says:

    Tony will you be posting new DMI images until September? This is the seventh post since May 24 claiming the Arctic ice isn’t melting, but somehow between May 1 and June 1 the Arctic lost 1.9 million km2 of ice.

    • Jim Hunt says:

      For some strange reason I have been pondering that very question too Craig!

      In actual fact Tony isn’t posting “DMI images”, he’s posting “Heller hallucinations”. Here’s an alternative visualisation of the actual Arctic facts, in this case from JAXA via the University of Hamburg:

    • tonyheller says:

      I didn’t say that and normally ban people who misrepresent my position.

  3. Craig T says:

    In his 5/29/15 post “Trouble Looming For Arctic Alarmists” Tony posted a weather forecast for the Beaufort Sea. Compare last year’s temperature and ice cover to this year.

    https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2015/05/29/trouble-looming-for-arctic-alarmists/

  4. Jim Hunt says:

    Here’s Sunday’s temperature forecast for the Arctic. Unlike Tony’s, this one doesn’t exclude most of the Arctic!

    http://cci-reanalyzer.org/wxmaps/#ARC-LEA

  5. AndyG55 says:

    So Jimbo, STILL trying to push the Arctic sea ice SCARE..

    PLEASE say you will stick around over the next few years as Arctic sea ice, unfortunately, expands.

    The egg on your face will be so hilarious to watch.

    But you won’t, will you.. you will slime back under your rock, like the coward you are.

    The long game is VERY MUCH against you, and you KNOW it, don’t you. ;-)

    • Friar Geschwind says:

      AndyG55:

      “The long game is VERY MUCH against you, and you KNOW it, don’t you.”

      Mirror, mirror, on the wall…

  6. richard says:

    All this ice melting and the Russians are building the most powerful ice breakers ever.

    Back in 1937 the Hudson bay company managed to send two ships though the North West Passage from either end and exchange cargo- no ice breaker needed.

    • Jim Hunt says:

      More ice melting than last year at least! Meanwhile this year Crystal Cruises are planning to send “the very first luxury ship to transit the fabled Northwest Passage” in August, albeit accompanied by “an escort vessel with ice breaking capabilities”:

      The Northwest Passage in 2016

      • richard says:

        “the very first luxury ship to transit the fabled Northwest Passage” in August, albeit accompanied by “an escort vessel with ice breaking capabilities”:

        JIm they did the passage in 1937 without ice breakers you point?

      • richard says:

        Jim , today they have satellite , radar, underwater sonar, special lights to show up ice-

        1937 trip- none of the above!!

        • Jim Hunt says:

          Richard – The Nascopie “was fitted with an ice breaker bow and her plates were of five-eighths-inch steel. She carried Marconi apparatus located beside the wheelhouse on the upper deck.”

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Nascopie

          Amongst other points:

          1) There is no causal relationship that I am aware of between the construction of Russian icebreakers and the decline in Arctic sea ice extent this year compared to last.

          2) The Crystal Serenity is a 68,870 gross tons luxury cruise ship, not a 1,870 gross tons ice hardened cargo vessel.

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            ”Soon after World War I broke out the Soviet government was in dire need of ships with ice breaking capacity, It placed orders with British shipyards and at the same time began a campaign of purchasing icebreakers on the open market.”

            A “keen sense of the credibility of sources” you have not.

            ———-
            Criteria to Evaluate the Credibility of WWW Resources

          • Jim Hunt says:

            Colorado – For some strange reason your link doesn’t mention either the Crystal Serenity or the Nascopie.

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            Jim, I am unable to decide if you are dense or very clever and just pretending to be dense.

            Everybody else understands I am talking about the information in your link.

    • AndyG55 says:

      And in 1903, without the aid of any nuclear powered ice-breakers, a guy and his crew sailed a wooden ship through the NW Passage.

      It will be funny/ hilarious to watch that big cruise ship (with its accompanying ice breakers) that is scamming money from true-believers, as it tries to get through any time in the next few decades.

      Turney has nothing on their stupidity.

      Hey Jimbo, Craig…. please, please say that you have booked your cabins . :-)

      Or maybe even YOU aren’t quite that STUPID , yet. ?

      • Friar Geschwind says:

        AndyG55:

        “And in 1903, without the aid of any nuclear powered ice-breakers, a guy and his crew sailed a wooden ship through the NW Passage.”

        I believe I once corrected you or somebody else on this site on this but…

        Amundsen took three years to do what could be done now in several weeks with the same type of ship.

        • AndyG55 says:

          Its called “investigating and mapping”, bozo. !!!

          They now have satellite images etc etc to guide them through. Amundsen had to find his own way, while he mapped out the coasts.

          You truly have NOTHING to contribute, do you, Friar Blow-wind.

  7. Jim Hunt says:

    I know that “DMI continues to show the Arctic melting” because the current Arctic melting is not “imaginary”.

    Tony’s 2015/16 delta maps, on the other hand, contain numerous “imaginary” green pixels. His blatant error has been explained to him numerous times in a variety of different ways, yet still he persists.

    Can you see the egg on his face? Hilarious isn’t it?

    • AndyG55 says:

      The egg is ONLY EVER on your face, because you are too cowardly to admit to the real history of Arctic sea ice.

      You egg your own face each time you IGNORE THE TRUTH. You must have a massive omelette by now.. or maybe just enough scrambled eggs to feed the whole of the Exeter Uni climate catastrophist crew.

      You KNOW that the current levels are nothing but a recover from the LIA…

      …but are still trying to push these tiny, trivial, insignificant changes as if they mean something.

      Poor Jimbo, ALWAYS too cowardly to admit the truth.

      • Jim Hunt says:

        I KNOW that the current levels are lower than at the same time last year.

        Why do you and Tony continue to IGNORE THE TRUTH?

        Because you are too cowardly to admit it?

        • AndyG55 says:

          Still running and hiding from the truth.

          It is what you do..

          It is WHO YOU ARE..

          a COWARDLY LIAR.

          And everybody here KNOWS that.

          • Jim Hunt says:

            Here’s a simple question for you Andy.

            Is there “more [Arctic sea] ice this year than last year” or not?

          • Jason Calley says:

            “Is there “more [Arctic sea] ice this year than last year” or not?”

            The most accurate answer is “who knows?”. The public pronouncements of the official reports are been shown to be unreliable over and over.

            If, in fact, it could be shown that the Arctic sea ice is less today than it was last year, would that be weather or climate? If less sea ice in the Arctic supports the idea of CAGW, does more sea ice in the Antarctic support CAGC?

          • Jim Hunt says:

            I claimed to know Jason, and it wasn’t on the basis of “the public pronouncements of the official reports” or the public pronouncements of Tony Heller and AndyG!

            Your final paragraph is irrelevant to the question, as is AndyG’s infinite supply of ad homs and ancient history.

          • AndyG55 says:

            Still hiding from the truth behind trivial almost unmeasureable difference.

            COWARD.

            See below, for the job I have set for you and CraigT concerning this graph.

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            Hey Jason!

            Don’t you know Jim claims to know?

            And suppose he doesn’t know he’ll google it and then he’ll know!

  8. AndyG55 says:

    The current Arctic sea ice level is somewhere between the near ZERO levels of the most of the first 3/4 of the Holocene, and the massively high levels of the LIA.

    Is there ANYONE that disagrees with this ??????

    • Craig T says:

      A lot of climatologists would disagree, calling that an exaggeration. There’s evidence that 6000 years ago (mid-Holocene) Northern Baffin Bay was covered in ice for 6 months of the year.
      http://www.geo.umass.edu/faculty/jbg/Pubs/Polyak%20etal%20seaice%20QSR10%20inpress.pdf

      • AndyG55 says:

        Yep, in the lower graph you can clearly see the “Neoglaciation” period starting about 3-4k years ago.

        Shows up in GISP as well. The coldest period of this “Neoglaciation” was the LIA.

        Thanks for confirming everything I said. :-)

      • AndyG55 says:

        GRIP/GISP give a pretty good representation of past Arctic conditions, wouldn’t you say.

      • Sunsettommy says:

        Craig, the issue is about SUMMER ice,which has at times earlier in the Holocene been absent and other times just a very small ice pack much less than today’s summers in the Arctic.

        • AndyG55 says:

          Suns, you have BUCKLEY’S CHANCE of ever getting any of these Arctic sea ice Worriers to admit THIS SIMPLE TRUTH that so utterly destroys their baseless PANIC.

          • AndyG55 says:

            add at end…

            and SCAREMONGERING.

            Their very lives depend on the DENIAL of the truth.

      • Sunsettommy says:

        Here is one statement from Dr. Meier on this:

        “Can the Arctic really become sea ice-free during summer?

        It has been suggested that the Arctic really can’t lose all its sea ice during summer because there isn’t enough energy to melt all of the ice in the short summer. There are a couple of reasons why this thinking is faulty.

        First, we know the Arctic can potentially lose all its sea ice during summer because it has done so in the past. Examination of several proxy records (e.g., sediment cores) of sea ice indicate ice-free or near ice-free summer conditions for at least some time during the period of 15,000 to 5,000 years ago (Polyak et al., 2010) when Arctic temperatures were not much warmer than today.

        https://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/14/nsidcs-dr-walt-meier-part-2/

    • Craig T says:

      The LIA did increase sea ice a bit but not to “massively high levels.”
      http://www.geo.umass.edu/faculty/jbg/Pubs/Polyak%20etal%20seaice%20QSR10%20inpress.pdf

      • Gonzo says:

        Of course Craig you have to “believe” we actually “know” what the ice looked like in 1200. The studies you show are best guess studies. Lets stick with the satellite era which began at the beginning of a warm phase of the AMO. A common sense approach would be to wait for the AMO to flip into a cold phase.

      • Latitude says:

        The LIA did increase sea ice a bit but not to “massively high levels.”
        ===
        Could that be because it’s pretty much maxed out right now?

      • AndyG55 says:

        Ice on Iceland coast…

        nuff said..

        • AndyG55 says:

          That 20 weeks a year around the 1800’s

          Are you saying that isn’t “massively more” than now?

          yet a tiny, almost immeasurable decrease, maybe, from last year….. is somehow significant.

          WOW. !!!

          • Sunsettommy says:

            He is being irrational.

          • AndyG55 says:

            Irrational…

            the hallmark of the AGW alarmista.

            or the Arctic sea ice panicker.

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            He could tell us, rationally, what the proper area and volume of sea ice should be.

            And while we are at it, we should also establish the ideal extent of land ice, the correct air temperature, the optimal number of cyclones and hurricanes, the appropriate frequency of heat waves and arctic spells, etc.

            And not just some figures out of thin air. Scientifically justified numbers so we can settle it once and for all.

            And if he doesn’t get to it, mogur should give it the good old college try.

          • AndyG55 says:

            “He could tell us, rationally, what the proper area and volume of sea ice should be.”

            Yep, Come on CraigT or Jimbo the clown, or Mogor..

            What SHOULD the current level of Arctic sea ice be.????

            What SHOULD the current global temperature be?

            Make reference to the whole of the current interglacial.

            Will you actually have a try ?

            Or will you twist and turn and then slither away like always!

        • Craig T says:

          What about Iceland’s climate farther back?
          “After 7000 BP and before 4500 BP Solheimajokull [glacier] extended up tp 5 km beyond its present limits. Major advances also culminated before 3100 BP, and between 1400-1200 BP.”
          Glaciers and Environmental Change
          Johannes Oerlemans

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            Is it your argument that the glaciers advanced and retreated through various cycles for thousands of years?

          • AndyG55 says:

            Certainly the Swiss ones do..

          • AndyG55 says:

            as do glaciers in the Mt Baker area.

            (Image turned on its side so people can see the similarity)

          • AndyG55 says:

            The very fact that human artefacts, tree stumps etc are regularly found as glaciers retreat, as well as often evidence of multiple terminal moraines, shows that there must be some sort of periodicity.

            Again..

            NOTHING UNUSUAL or UNTOWARD is happening with climate, glaciers, Arctic sea ice , drought, floods, coral bleaching, hurricanes etc etc etc

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            Yes, Andy, but how does he fit it into the “extreme and unprecedented” narrative?

          • AndyG55 says:

            CW..

            Basically by IGNORING anything before 1979 or the LIA…

            you know…. like Jimbo does.

  9. fishnski says:

    After years on this site and others trying to study this I am concluding that as most times the truth is in the middle…but once humans take sides they have an almost impossible hurdle to accept anything but what they have been led to believe or have been preaching…
    there is no dout that there has been some man made global warming….thats common sense…but..a very small amount in the larger scheme of things….

    • Colorado Wellington says:

      And once we have so concluded, do we believe that this “very small amount” of “man made global warming” can be measured and identified amidst the noise?

      If so, how?

      If not, how did we conclude it exists? and how come there is no doubt?

      I am truly puzzled by the conclusion and by the claimed certainty.

    • AndyG55 says:

      “there has been some man made global warming….thats common sense”

      There is definitely some local urban warming that has fed through majorly to the calculated so-called “global” surface temperatures…

      and most probably some local changes due to land use, clearing, reforestation, reduction of real air pollution etc etc

      But I doubt very much that has ANY affect on the real global temperature.

      The list I have posted elsewhere basically proves that to be the case…

      … in that there is absolute NO CO2 warming signal in the whole of the satellite data.

  10. alf says:

    craig t; looks like a trend starting in 1880 or so. Would that be a result of CO2?

  11. AndyG55 says:

    A job for CraigT or Jimbo, since they are ONLY interested in the posy 1979 period.

    Below is a graph of occurrence of Arctic sea ice on the coast of Iceland..

    Your job, is to complete the final bar from 1980-2000.

    I suspect you will find that it is the first period since the start of the LIA that the Arctic Sea Ice level has got back to “NORMAL”

    You can see the dip from 1920-1960, (when someone managed to cross the NW passage unaided) getting back towards normal, then the PEAK from 1960-1980.

    Arctic sea ice has never really RECOVERED from the LIA , has it.

    UNTIL NOW

    • Jim Hunt says:

      At the risk of repeating myself Andy.

      Is there “more [Arctic sea] ice this year than last year” or not?

      • AndyG55 says:

        Depends on how its measured, maybe a very small insignificant amount. That’s how trivial and irrelevant the question is.

        Now, are you going to keep running and hiding from the FACT that Arctic sea ice is still anomalously HIGH compared to most of the Holocene?

        I suspect you are.. its ALL YOU HAVE EVER DONE

        RUN and HIDE…….

        AVOID THE TRUTH

        Protect the MONUMENTAL LIE, that there is a problem with currents sea ice levels.

      • Sunsettommy says:

        The difference is very small,which Satellites that doesn’t fully resolve.

    • Craig T says:

      Jørgen Peder Steffensen (from Andy’s Vimeo link) makes it clear that Iceland and Greenland’s climate depends on the Gulf current. “During Greenland cold phases, the thermohaline circulation is reduced, northern sea ice extends far south and the ITCZ is shifted southward.” Iceland was warmer from 800 – 122 AD than the LIA. But Icelandic glaciers were larger before that. “[T]he eastern flank of Sólheimajökull reached the outer most moraines at AD 56, thereafter it retreated to the second outer most moraine at AD 91. Thus confirming that Sólheimajökull was much larger during the Holocene, than any time of the LIA.”
      http://users.clas.ufl.edu/rrusso/gly6932/steffensen_etal_science08.pdf
      http://skemman.is/stream/get/1946/7407/19823/1/Bjarki_Friis_master_thesis_ready_for_printing_V3.pdf

      Iceland warmed during the Medieval Warm Period but not the entire Atlantic. “Complimentary paleoclimate proxy data suggest that the western North Atlantic region remained cool, whereas the eastern North Atlantic region was comparatively warmer during the MWP—a dipole pattern compatible with a persistent positive phase of the North Atlantic Oscillation.” Climate shifts in Iceland were not seen across the Arctic, much less worldwide.
      http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/1/11/e1500806.full

  12. AndyG55 says:

    Either that, or run away, and only come back once someone does Amundsens’s trip, UNAIDED by nuclear powered ice breakers.

  13. AndyG55 says:

    The children here who think 1979 onwards is the ONLY history, should look up the term “Neoglaciation”

    And view this video, from REAL scientists.

    https://vimeo.com/14366077

  14. mogur says:

    And the imaginary arctic sea ice increase from last year is a ‘melt-up’?

  15. mogur says:

    Can you really dither pixels to the point of disagreeing with every, single, solitary country in the world that claims that arctic sea ice is less than this year, on this date, by far? Are you a genius at dithered pixel counting, without bias and dishonesty? I say no. You are trying to authenticate bullshit.

  16. Craig T says:

    Tony’s post is about Arctic ice conditions in the last year but that’s not what anyone wants to talk about. When Creationists do it it’s called the “Gish Gallop.” I just came for the low hanging fruit to show the DMI is not committing fraud. As fun as it is to research climate I don’t have time to argue every point Andy can raise.

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