Melting Ice Below The Freezing Point

Temperatures near the North Pole have been below freezing continuously since mid-September of last year, yet climate experts tell us the ice is melting at a record rate, and will be all gone later this summer.  Apparently they never completed preschool level science.

Ocean and Ice Services | Danmarks Meteorologiske Institut

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79 Responses to Melting Ice Below The Freezing Point

  1. Squidly says:

    Oh boy…inching ever so close to that blue line… I’m skeert …

    • Andy says:

      I’d disregard that blue line, ice up there tends to melt at other temperatures rather than at the blue line.

      Also it does not take into account ocean temperatures, only air.

      It’s not much use in judging how much melt there will be this season, but it is useful if you are planning your holiday up there.

      Andy

      • Squidly says:

        Oh, stop it Andy … they want me to be skeert that we’re all going to burn up and die! … you’re wrecking it for everyone!

        • Andy says:

          No I am just pointing out 3 facts.

          Andy

          • Squidly says:

            I don’t believe I said anything about temperatures, melting or holidays.

            I simply stated that I am “skeert of blue lines”

            Don’t really see how you could extrapolate all of that bloviated nonsense out of my seemingly simple comment. Especially since mine was only a single line.

            This must be a good example of how Arctic “science” is done. Simply extrapolate something out of nothing.

        • Andy says:

          I still just pointed out three scientific facts.

          This is a science blog. See title of blog.

          Andy

          • Squidly says:

            And your mother should be proud of you, but I’m not.

            Most people would have written a general comment instead of replying to mine. I never asked you for “three scientific facts”. I could provide you with thousands upon thousands of “scientific” facts, but you never asked me. And guess what? … I never asked you either!

        • Andy says:

          I still provided 3 scientific facts on a science blog.

          Your turn.

          Andy

          • AndyG55 says:

            1. Arctic sea levels are above 90% of the last 10,000 years

            2. Extent in 1979 was anomalously high , up there with the extremes of the LIA

            3. Arctic sea ice is cyclic and driven by the ocean currents, wind and a bit by surface temperatures.. Mainly ocean currents that also drive the temperatures in the region. (sea amo cycle vs Rekjavik temperatures)
            https://s19.postimg.cc/yavxs1i7n/amoreyk.jpg

            4. There has been basically ZERO change in Arctic sea ice extent or volume in over 10 years.

            5. Bering Strait region has been affected by the remnants of the EL Nino warm surge.

            6. Sea ice is bunched and thicker this year , and has been melting slower than previous.

            7. The general trend in melt from year to year is towards less and less melt. (graph below)

      • richard says:

        More like the wind direction plays the larger part, Andy,-

        “We found that these patterns can explain in large part why the ice cover decreased so much more rapidly after 2000. Wind patterns depend on the position of major high-pressure and low-pressure systems. We discovered that months with very little ice cover and high temperatures corresponded with crucial variations in the wind patterns,” explains Mr Sorteberg.

        “Up until 2000, the Arctic Oscillation (AO) had the greatest impact on the winter ice cover in the Arctic. But the change around 2000 meant that more of the weather and wind over the Arctic after that year was determined by high-pressure and low-pressure systems in northern Russia. In other words, the AO, which was usually so crucial, played a much less important role.”

        Ice is pushed away

        “We have now managed to document what has occurred in connection with this change,” says Mr Sorteberg.

        The changed wind direction pushes large ice masses away from the Arctic and down along the eastern coast of Greenland. At the same time, less ice forms when the winds over the Arctic are determined by the pressure systems in northern Russia rather than those over the North Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean, as is normally the case.

        The conclusion from this research is that we should be cautious about using the extent of the ice cover as an indicator of the ice’s climatic “state of health.”

  2. Griff says:

    This is ignorance of the highest degree… this is just a nonsense set of statements

    of course its been cold during the arctic winter…

    but not as warm as in the recent past and the surrounding ocean currents are also warmer than average.

    The maximum ice extent was again lower, the amount of old ice lower and the ice is in short in a worse ground state than before as it enters a melting season.

    there has been no change in arctic temps or conditions back to a state conducive to ice recovery.

    what are these posts trying to claim about the trend in the ice? It hasn’t even plateaued let alone recovered.

    what change can you possibly imagine is causing this imaginary ‘not melting’ season???

    • Stewart Pid says:

      The Grifftard said “of course its been cold during the arctic winter”. Griffypoo … if it has been cold as you state then why have you been nattering on like a crazy person for the last 6 months about how warm it is? R u logic challenged?
      Do u have any degree of any kind? Many here figure u have 7 or 8 years of high school ;-)

    • Gator says:

      Ocean temps are warmer than what meaningless average? And there is currently more ice in the Arctic than the average of the past 9000 years.

      But Ms Griff desperately wants to keep the genocide going.

    • tonyheller says:

      Over the past decade, the Arctic winter has been lasting nearly 365 days. But the North Pole is going to melt out during the other 15 minutes.

    • Andy says:

      Hi Griff,

      I tend to disregard winter values of ice extent up there as due to land locking it skews the picture. The Summer extent does not have this problem of course and so has more interest.

      Any predictions at this time of the year, including mine and yours, will no doubt have more uncertainty simply due to weather.

      Having said that, lets all do a summer extent minimum guess. I am up for it?

      Anyone else brave enough ? 4.1 million km2 for me as per Jaxa data.

      Andy

      • Gator says:

        Why would I waste my time? It has zero effect on me, or any of the other 7.6 billion humans on this planet (excluding grantologists and other scam artists). I may as well spend my time counting dandelions in Central Park.

      • Squidly says:

        I’m game .. I will make my prediction:

        No matter what happens in the Arctic, I will still be playing golf every single weekend.

        Another prediction:

        No matter what happens to the Arctic, I will still not give a rat’s ass what happens in the Arctic.

        And one last prediction:

        No matter what happens in the Arctic, it will have exactly zero effect on the more than 7 billion inhabitants of the planet Earth

        And you can take those predictions to the bank!

        • Andy says:

          So what are you doing on a blog that is interested in the Arctic?

          Andy

          • Squidly says:

            I love watching Tony and others destroy the climate morons. Occasionally I will participate in the fun when I have nothing really better to do.

            Sadly, it seems I have some better things to do now, so I will likely attend to them.

            It has been fun, as usual.

            And keep up the great work Tony! …
            Good to see you again Gator!

          • Gator says:

            Always good to see you Squidly, I never tire of logic and reason.

          • Andy says:

            I guess he ran off with tail between legs when he ran out of brain cells….

            Andy

          • Squidly says:

            Oh Andy! .. that was clever! .. no wonder you’re such a climate mastermind. Can’t argue with such logic and reason.

          • Andy says:

            I thought you had better things to do?

            Seems not

            Andy

          • Gator says:

            We all do Andy. Why do you waste yours? Got agenda?

          • Colorado Wellington says:

            What a strange person you are, Reader Andy.

    • Squidly says:

      So, tell me, exactly what is going to happen if all of the ice in the Arctic melts this summer? … what spectacular thing is going to happen?

      • Johansen says:

        There will be calls for a one-world government modeled on Marx and Engels, no genders, no private firearms, no cash, the electric chair for Trump, and Seimens Engineering and Goldman Sachs running things behind the curtain

    • tonyheller says:

      I’ve been writing about the Arctic for 10 years, and during that time every single expert forecast has been wrong. There has been no trend in Arctic sea ice extent or volume since the day in 2008 I wrote “Arctic Ice Refuses To Melt As Ordered”

      In climate science, being correct makes you ignorant – and being dead wrong makes you an expert.

      • Squidly says:

        And I for one never tire of reading what you post. My only problem is, after all of these years, I still cannot wrap my head around how stupid the followers of these climate clowns really are. It is simply outside the realm of my comprehension.

        I thank you as always Tony, and I hope you are doing well sir!

      • Andy says:

        I agree Tony that the scientists can often be proven wrong especially when it comes to the polar regions. Even in 2017 they put the lower Antarctic extent down to the SAO. The SAO then flipped but the Arctic did not follow, so they got puzzled.

        I could have told them this was a wonky theory because the SAO graph did not match with the big increase that happened up to 2015.

        Still work in progress onwhy the Antarctic has done such a big negative change since 2015. Nobody knows. If someone says it is AGW they are talking out of their hat!

        The Antarctic is more interesting than the Arctic at the moment for polar watchers, you should cover it more Tony.

        Just to point out, in a cheeky way, your forecasts have been as bad as the scientists, go on, admit it!!!! Remember “this will be like 2006” and it was not … and those targets you put up, I fondly remember those. My guess was better that year, but still rubbish.

        The Polar regions still teach us all a lesson, year on year. That is what is fun about them.

        Andy

        • Squidly says:

          So, you’re saying because Tony guessed “heads” and it came up “tails”, his “guess” was worse than yours, and you guessed “tails” too?

          Oookay …. well, can’t argue with logic like that.

          • Andy says:

            I thought you had something better to do?

            Andy

          • Gator says:

            Obviously you don’t.

          • Andy says:

            Not at all, I am on here putting 3 scientific facts down on a science blog, something Squidly is having trouble with.

            So quite the contrary Handbag man.

            ;)

            Andy

          • Gator says:

            All I see are silly posts, and you, for no known reason, signing your name. Looks like somebody has insecurity issues.

            Ants have 6 legs! There’s your science fact Andy. LOL

          • Andy says:

            It’s taken all these years on here for you finally to get annoyed that I always put Andy at the end.

            I guess you have no argument about what goes before it so have finally come up with this trump card. After all these years.

            Well done.

            Andy BSc Msc.

          • Gator says:

            We are all aware of your miscellaneous bs, no need to add that to your useless name.

          • AndyG55 says:

            3 scientific facts ?????

            1. Arctic sea ice levels are above 90% of the last 10,000 years

            2. Extent in 1979 was anomalously high , up there with the extremes of the LIA

            3. Arctic sea ice is cyclic and driven by the ocean currents, wind and a bit by surface temperatures.. Mainly ocean currents that also drive the temperatures in the region. (sea amo cycle vs Rekjavik temperatures)
            https://s19.postimg.cc/yavxs1i7n/amoreyk.jpg

            4. There has been basically ZERO change in Arctic sea ice extent or volume in over 10 years.

            5. Bering Strait region has been affected by the remnants of the EL Nino warm surge.

            6. Sea ice is bunched and thicker this year , and has been melting slower than previous.

            7. The general trend in melt from year to year is towards less and less melt.

            No wonder the best you could manage was a lowly MSc ??? poor little andy

        • tonyheller says:

          My forecasts have been that nothing is changing in the Arctic. Expert forecasts have been ice-free. Andy appears unable to distinguish between correct forecasts and incorrect forecasts.

          • Andy says:

            Lets cut to the chase and state the following

            1. The Arctic being ice free at a certain date forecasts were wrong. To much extrapolation.
            2. The Arctic extent over the last 40 years of so has been decreasing, for whatever reason.

            Yes?

            Andy

          • Gator says:

            Ah yes! The 1979 cherry pick!

          • Andy says:

            4o years is 1978 Handbaggy.

            Need a calculator?

            Andy

          • neal s says:

            Andy claims “2. The Arctic extent over the last 40 years of so has been decreasing, for whatever reason.”

            If that were so, then why don’t we now regularly have successful cargo ship transits of the North West Passage? One would expect multiple such transits every summer by now.

          • Andy says:

            Neal,

            Are you saying that the ice Extent has NOT been decreasing over the last 4 decades?

            Secondly where did I mention that therefore the NW passage is routinely done by Greek cruise liners etc etc ?

            The ice extent is getting lower but the thickest ice is on the Canadian side. There are some NW passages now most years but that is aided by modern technology compared to the old days.

            Number of ships doing the NW or Northern passages is not a good scientific bellmark.

            Andy

          • Gator says:

            Andy, your childish attempts at “science” fall flat. 1978/79 is a cherry pick, you are aware of this, and yet you continue to post this meaningless drivel.

            Proud to not be Andy

          • AndyG55 says:

            Poor little andy, still in DENIAL of climate history

            Late 1970s was a period of EXTREME HIGH sea ice extent up there with the EXTREMES of the LIA, the coldest anomaly of the last 10,000 years.

            Why do you DENY/IGNORE this fact, lttle andy..

            It makes you look like NOTHING but a mindless AGW parrot.

            It WAS NOT NORMAL

          • AndyG55 says:

            September (minimum) Arctic sea ice since 1900.

            Notice anything, little minded andy?

          • AndyG55 says:

            Arctic SSTs from Hadcrut.

            Notice anything ???

          • David A says:

            Poor 3 fact Andy – getting hammered by 33 facts.

            Andy says ” Stop the Hammering”

            ( must see video) https://youtu.be/CmZAyMx7vjQ

        • arn says:

          Andy-
          just one thing.
          I am not a math expert as you are and my englisch sucks.
          But if you start to count all years starting in 1979 and ending in 2018
          you will get data for 40 different years.
          Need a calculator?

        • AndyG55 says:

          “Nobody knows”

          There was a large tongue of warm water pushed down from the El Nino.

          Antarctic is recovering well this year and will probably end up about average I September.

      • MisanthropicMarc says:

        I laughed to tears. Thanks, Tony!

    • AndyG55 says:

      “This is ignorance of the highest degree”

      Great title for you post , griff.

      STILL the DENIAL that Arctic sea ice is in the top 10% of the last 10,000 years

      IGNORANCE to the HIGHEST DEGREE.

      And totally wilful to boot !!

      You CHOOSE to be IGNORANT. !!

  3. Andy says:

    Perhaps the DMI temperature graph has a lag like their sea ice thickness map seems to have.

    See ice currently in the Laptev sea is 1 to 2m thick, but todays satellite image shows a stretch of ice free water bigger than Iceland…

    https://i.imgur.com/xM3ooLr.jpg

    As an aside the NOAA-20 satellite is now online and NOAA have a funky new webpage where you can download really good images from it. Top work from the USA , thumbsup. Very impressive.

    Andy

    • tonyheller says:

      You can’t see small ice floes at that resolution.

      • Andy says:

        No, but I can see it ain’t 2m thick.

        Actually, the latest DMI thickness graph seems to be getting up to date, compare it with last few days.

        To be honest, lag here does not matter as long as it is constantly lagging the same year on year as the trend is what matters.

        Have you seen the new NOAA site Tony? I like it. Resolution not as good as Modis as you pointed out but as a quick snap shot at 1 km res and easy to use to see the entire arctic quickly

        https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/content/imagery-and-data

        Got this of Baffin /Greenland in under a minute.

        https://i.imgur.com/blxtH16.jpg

        A nice tool to use.

        Andy

    • Squidly says:

      OMG!!!! … There’s water in the Arctic Ocean !!! … who knew???

      We’re all gonna die !!! …. die I tell you! … we’re all gonna die!

      • Gator says:

        One more reason to ban dihydrogen monoxide. How many must die?

        • Squidly says:

          Exactly!

          I really do hope the entire Arctic melts this summer. With not a single ice-cube to be found. And when nothing becomes of it all, I will yell and scream at all of the Arctic nutjobs .. just like they scream at me. Nothing but a bunch of the dumbest lifeforms on the planet.

    • Squidly says:

      BTW, looks pretty damned cold to me. I won’t be going there any time soon. I think I will stay south, where I can actually play golf .. thank you very much.

      Also to note, I absolutely hope that it all melts. Then the Arctic idiots can all STFU when we clearly see that nothing will happen.

      I am so sick and tired of people going hysterical over Arctic ice melt. I have had to live through at least 30 years of it. Guess what, the Arctic is exactly that same as it was when I heard the morons first yammering on about it melting. Oh, and by the way, just before that, the same people were screaming that we were all going to die from an Ice-Age !!!

      Enough already .. they are all a bunch of morons lead around by the nose by a bunch of con-artists!

      • Andy says:

        Not the most scientific post I have read on here over all the years.

        Andy

        • Squidly says:

          Can you refute it?

          And in your world view, what constitutes a “scientific post” ?

          Judging by what I have seen you post and appears to be your “scientific” criteria, I have yet to see anything from you I would call “scientific”, other than to parrot the work of others, primarily claiming that work to be something it is not.

          • Andy says:

            “And in your world view, what constitutes a “scientific post” ?”

            The opposite to that which seemed to be you just wanting to get something off your chest about the injustice of it all.

            Andy

          • Griff says:

            just fire up the NSIDC extent charts which go back 38 years and see how much lower things are today…

          • AndyG55 says:

            Just fire up the Fram Strait and other biodata, and see how much LOWER sea ice extent has been than today.

            Current is FAR above the Holocene average.

            STOP DENYING CLIMATE CHANGE, griff.

          • Gator says:

            just fire up the NSIDC extent charts which go back 38 years…

            Just fire up the cherry-picker! Science be damned, Ms Griff has an agenda! She hates poor brown people.

    • Brad says:

      It has no lag, only in your fairy tail brains. Why was it below average the whole time in 2017? Thats a very long lag then. You climate alarmists are complete morons.

      • Andy says:

        Your comment on 2017 shows that you have not read the posts correctly. We are talking about open water that has appeared in 2018 and whether it is correctly represented on the DMI charts.

        Andy

  4. sunsettommy says:

    Andy,

    who has been correct Tony, or the experts who make gobs of failed prediction for the Arctic region?

    Waiting for the sound of crickets……………….

  5. Robert B says:

    “Temperatures near the North Pole have been below freezing continuously since mid-September of last year, yet climate experts tell us the ice is melting at a record rate, and will be all gone later this summer. ”
    All fixed. Data now fits theory.
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Melt_combine-720×311.png

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