Colorado sank to desperate lows in 2008 when they hosted the beginning of emperor Obama’s attempted coup.
And again in 2012/2013 when the Democrats in the legislature voted to repeal the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution.
But the state has made a comeback. They tossed out the Democrats in the state senate who led the attack on the Bill of Rights, they tossed out carpetbagger Mark Udall, rejected hundreds of millions in Steyer and Bloomberg propaganda, and ended the ban on marijuana. Oil and gas is booming in Colorado due to fracking on private land. As a result of these libertarian actions, the economy of Colorado is booming. The state’s gun shops largely ignore the illegal laws passed by the Democrats.
I have never taken any illegal drugs, and almost never any legal ones. But the government has no business controlling people’s lives. I applaud my home state for their courage and recovery from the attempted Obama coup.
http://youtu.be/RTlSrMtCSqA
I don’t have an hour and a half to spend on this, but the first three minutes gives me the basic premise, and as a firm Libertarian I do not object.
More government is not the answer, it is the problem.
We will have to wait and see on the Grand dope experiment. Do dope heads vote Democrat?
Do boozers vote republican?
“I can’t claim a Bill Clinton and say I never inhaled,”
-Gov Sarah Palin
“I wouldn’t have been able to make it through hundreds of shows if it weren’t for the benefits of medical marijuana”
-Rush Limbaugh
Medical marijuana is a heck of a lot better pain killer and muscle relaxer for a severe back injury when compared to tylenol with codeine. Some friends convinced me to give it a try once when I was in so much pain I could not walk.
Montel Williams was on the news the other night advocating for medical marijuana, explaining that the state has no right to deny you and your doctor a plant based remedy when at the same time the state approves deadly toxins for prescription. My father and my niece would have likely benefitted greatly from MM, but were never afforded the opportunity.
http://www.rxlist.com/parafon-forte-drug.htm
Parafone Forte was my drug of choice for lower back pain back in the day. I used it once but gave it out many times as an SF medic. And yes SF medics can proscribe such medications.
Rah, I’ve got an inoperable condition in my lower back and have been using a moderately serious Schedule II drug for about 12 years now. Due to abuse of that family of drug the laws keep changing and it has gotten to the point that I literally have to prove that I’m not a criminal every month to get a refill. Instead of going after the “addicts” breaking the stupid laws pr the “crooked” docs they hammer regular doctors and good pharmacists whose lawyers force them to treat their patients like criminals… and the State uses the extortion tactics allowed by licensing schemes to make sure it happens. It’s absolutely insane and has gotten so bad in Florida that my regular doctor’s new owners (he sold out due to Obamacare) will no longer let him do my pn management… it’s a nightmare for those of us who have chronic pain.
… and surprise! Heroin and opium abuse is skyrocketing. So instead of “fixing” a non existent problem where abusers mostly injured themselves, they’ve created a bunch more potential criminals and increased the unregulated drug problems. Ain’t government wonderful?
Niel, I’m in the same fix. Drugstores now have monthly limits on many Schedule 11 drugs and now have to go from store to store since they will not tell you if it is in stock.
Man I feel for you. And I will say how thankful I am that at 59 1/2 years of age I have little to complain about physically. Years of lugging heavy rucks, skiing, jumping, and before that growing up working with a lifting steel and a medial meniscectomy by gross dissection on my right knee have left me able to still run and jump and do heavy lifting and labor with a minimum of aches and pains. Just two years ago I had my trees trimmed and one large Chinese Elm dropped. Three guys working two days dropped the stuff to the ground. I cut and stacked almost all of that wood and burned the brush. My neighbor helped some but I did 95% of it. I am fully aware how luck I am.
Having mangled my back in an auto accident at age 20 I really feel for you guys. I would not let them operate and it sort of healed. Luckily thanks to exercise, vitamins, glucosamine, chondroitin and Co Q 10 I am pretty much completely off the pain meds.
The glucosamine, chondroitin and Co Q 10 made a huge difference for me. 15 years ago I was to the point Hubby had to put my shoes and socks on for me. Now I can touch the floor again.
As my brother-in-law says we are ‘temporarily-abled’ He lost a leg at 18 in a moped accident.
Ain’t it a bi..h getting old?
Gail
Could you give some advice on dosages, types, etc of G and C and Co Q 10? How long before you saw results? I’m desperate.
Gofer, Q10 preferably solubilized in soybean oil. Tran is also good.
Been there gofer… there are two large national chains that no longer get any of my business due to practices like that. The Wal Mart pharmacy I use is great. I found that their pharmacists were very good and (so far) have not been shackled by corporate lawyers like some of the others. They also deal with my unusual veterinary requests (like ordering in stuff that normally only goes to hospital surgical stock) with ease… it makes it worth the extra 16 miles. Both guys are 1st generation Americans from Vietnamese families and really have that drive for excellence that Asian immigrants always seem to have whether they’re doctors or cooks.
the benefits of medical marijuana”
-Rush Limbaugh
What year, month and day did he make that statement? I’ll go back and verify on tape if that was indeed what he spoke …
Rush Limbaugh Endorses Marijuana
8/13/13
EIB NETWORK OFFICIAL COMMUNIQUE — Controversial Conservative Talk Radio Mogul Rush Limbaugh endorsed medical marijuana legalization on his show Tuesday, and told Internet Chronicle reporters smoking the “Mary Jane” helped him recover after a scandalous opiate addiction. Rush pontificated in front of the golden EIB microphone, “All you listeners out there in flyover country, I know this might scare you a bit, but I wouldn’t have been able to make it through hundreds of shows if it weren’t for the benefits of medical marijuana. When I topped off my cigar with a half gram, all my tremors and cravings for painkillers disappeared. I was able to speak more eloquently than ever, if anything. And when I stopped craving the painkillers, I went back to normal cigars without any withdrawals whatsoever. I know this may come to a shock to some of the people out in the heartland, but Marijuana is a truly miraculous medicine.”
Rush Limbaugh brought Libertarian talk host Neal Boortz onto his show for a discussion about the flaws and merits of legalizing drugs. Rush took the position that mostly harmless and medicinally-oriented drugs like marijuana and possibly MDMA should be legalized, but Boortz pushed for legal recreational use of all drugs. Boortz, exasperated, said “We should be ashamed that we have more prisoners than any other country in the world, and who are we locking up? They’re all drug addicts. They buy and consume drugs. That’ll drive the economy as powerfully as a war, as long as we nationalize the production and retail of the drugs as we do with alcohol and armored humvees. It’s win-win.”
http://chronicle.su/2013/08/13/rush-limbaugh-endorses-marijuana/
I know Rush was taking too much prescription medication because of pain and getting hooked. I heard him talk a few years ago of getting prescriptions from more than one doctor. (Hubby verifies) but I do not remember anything about medical marijuana.
Could easily be a twisting of the above to justify medical marijuana.
Funny, the source you provide isn’t a primary evidence source (no audio clips, not even a quick Youtube taken while his program was airing) on that subject, just some website no one has ever hear of before … meanwhile one can read what the Rush had to say on the issue previously:
I have a solution for Mrs. [Jocelyn] Elders. I mean, if she wants to legalize drugs, send the people who want to do drugs to London and Zurich and let’s be rid of them. Now…The problem with legalizing drugs is, it’s just another abhorrent example of human behavior that we’ve suddenly decided, “Hey, we can’t handle it. We’ve given up and we’re going to sanction the destruction of lives. We’re going to let you destroy your life. We’re going to make it easy, and then all of us who accept the responsibilities of life and don’t destroy our lives on drugs–we’ll pay for whatever messes you get into.”…
I’m appalled at people who simply want to look at all this abhorrent behavior and say, “Hey, you know, we can’t control it anymore. People are going to do drugs anyway. Let’s legalize it.” It’s a dumb idea. It’s a rotten idea, and those who are for it are purely, 100 percent selfish.
–Rush Limbaugh TV show (12/9/93)
.
And, at the open of this broadcast on or before Feb 19, 2013 a brief blurb with respect to “this has been coming for the purposes of money … tax it – regulate it ..”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8sbT7PXMcs
But nothing turns up for the date 8/13/13:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Rush+Limbaugh+Endorses+Marijuana+8%2F13%2F13&oq=Rush+Limbaugh+Endorses+Marijuana+8%2F13%2F13&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#tbm=vid&q=Rush+Limbaugh+Endorses+Marijuana+
.
.
Hey Gail! I have known of Boortz’ position on legalizing, but the Limbaugh quote is new to me, and may not be correct. I am not a Limbaugh fan, so rarely hear his views.
I was strongly anti-legalization, until I educated myself on the facts. It went against everything I thought I knew, and that is why I now know what the truth is, I had to be dragged kicking and screaming. My first experience with a free society was in Amsterdam, where I witnessed both prostitution and drug use, without the crime that is the real problem. Just as prohibition empowered criminals, and made honest citizens into criminals, our current drug war is a failure and only making things worse.
Hey Jim! Yeah, I also tried to source that quote after you asked, and couldn’t. I only found a Playboy interview in 1993 where Rush said he tried it twice and didn’t like it. Like I said, I’m not a Rush fan and don’t keep up with his opinions.
But I do know Boortz…
Well, almost through the 3rd hour for that day and so far nada regarding that quote.
Also, nothing on his website (the transcripts) for that day either:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/08/13
On tape and the website the topics that day were Obamacare and Oprah being ‘profiled’ or some such nonsense and Hillary in Selma in 2007…
When I first saw that quote it looked too good to be true … not that the pro-MJ crowd would be above minting something that ‘helped’ their cause or anything …
BTW, Neil (Boortz) wasn’t even on the program that day re: Rush Limbaugh brought Libertarian talk host Neal Boortz onto his show for a discussion about the flaws and merits of legalizing drugs.
Late to the party—and quite a few hints inbetween—but this doesn’t sound like Rush. I don’t listen to him regularly but my money would have been on fake quote.
It seems like I have opined on a long-settled issue. I didn’t scroll to the other comments on my tiny mobile screen before posting.
Another Chronicle headline:
Brian Williams dead at 55
Its a Onion relative.
.su was assigned as the country code top-level domain for the Soviet Union on 19 September 1990. Even though the Soviet Union itself was dissolved a mere 14 months later, the .su top-level domain remains in use today.
That is the Chronicle’s internet country code.
I think that Limbaugh quote is not genuine. IOW, not from him but from a humor website.
That is very encouraging news, even though I am a Canadian.
Thanks for that…..
This Day In Weather History
East (1930)
Spring arrives early in 1930: Philadelphia, PA – 79 degrees Reading, PA – 77 degrees Allentown, PA – 74 degrees Baltimore City, MD – 83 degrees Washington, D.C. – 84 degrees Richmond, VA – 83 degrees Greensboro, NC – 81 degrees Charlotte, NC – 81.6 degrees Pleasantville, NJ – 80 degrees
South (1934)
Tornado outbreak in Alabama and Georgia: six dead.
All “medications” should be available over-the-counter to adults.., who then become COMPLETELY responsible for their actions, costs of medical intervention, damages and criminal liability if they let minors and children get access to them. That would put Darwin firmly back into play and society will benefit from the “self purge” of those too stupid to take medications based on medical needs, direction of a competent medically learned individual and common sense. It would certainly decrease Democrat voter roles… except in Cook County and other Democrat h*ellholes where the dead keep voting.
+1,000,000,000….
Much of our crime would vanish as well.
The problem is Drugs are a huge money maker for the sate via Civil asset Forefeiture.
The bigger problem is the black market created because substances people want, and will get, are illegal. The lure of significant monetary gain from the importation and sale of substances that are illegal is strong for the criminal element amongst us. We have an example–Prohibition led to similar criminal activity in the sale of then illegal alcoholic beverages. That activity, like the illegal drug trade, involved murder, armed robbery, extortion and rampant theft. Legalize drugs, then regulate and tax their production, importation and sale. Use the money to fund rehabilitation centers for those who abuse the privilege. Continue to prohibit driving and other hazardous activities while under the influence. Crime will drop, as will OD deaths and other social issues now associated with illegal drugs.
There would not be many medications available in such a scenario. The tort lawyers would sue the pharmaceutical companies out of business because many people in our society do not take responsibility for their actions. Many hospitals would also go out of business because those same people would not take responsibility for the medical costs of intervention.
Cipolla’s First Basic Law: “Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.”
The FDA should be banished, even Ben Carson advocates for this. The system we have not is not working.
And I’m all for natural selection. This gene pool has become way too shallow and dirty.
Freedom means you are free to fail.
Correct.
At present The USA is encouraging breed for the dumbest human. I know a guy who was dumb as a brick but had 54 children from various women. You and I paid for all those kids and the women and he took a slice for fathering them.
He just one example. A lady at a church event pointed out one girl. She had six kids by the age of 18 and was pregnant again….
I don’t know if you can play these Gail, but they are from a movie called “Idiocracy”, and are alarmingly accurate in their portrayal of our genetic downfall.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icmRCixQrx8
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8rhIZJAdd0
gator, I will sneak over to hubby’s machine and play them later.
Since I breed goats and sheep, it does not take much to convince me the USA with its policy of wrapping everyone in cotton and encouraging the breeding of those unfit to care for there offspring, has damaged the ‘herd’ Of course that has always been the aim. The Elite do not want intelligent independent people. They are too hard to rule.
We practice survival of the fittest. I will bottle feed rejected animals but we do not go out of our way to save really weak kids or lambs as many breeders do. I learned early on that they often die later and all your effort is wasted.
From what I’ve seen on the road they just don’t encourage the breeding of oxygen thieves they IMPORT some of them also.
I must agree with you on “Idiocracy”…it’s a great flick. Sadly it may be the fate of America as long as people like Obama and the Progressives are in control.
The alleged Limbaugh quote is definitely not LImbaugh That is a humor website, as any perusal of its stories would clearly show.
http://chronicle.su/2013/08/13/rush-limbaugh-endorses-marijuana/
Funny; there is a DailyCaller author who used that very story to support points he was making regarding MJ legalization, here:
http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/14/why-the-right-shouldnt-fear-cannabis/
The Luc-Lucs at HuffPo fell for it too (Rush’s picture is #17 among the 50):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/18/famous-marijuana-users_n_3948855.html
and they (HuffPo) cite the false story back here:
http://chronicle.su/2013/08/13/rush-limbaugh-endorses-marijuana/
.
Everyone knows that HuffPo is the epitome of good journalistic practice. Gag!
If only we could get rid of our Udall….
“I have never taken any illegal drugs, and almost never any legal ones.”
I try to live my life so that I won’t have a shoebox of pill bottles on my end table the way my parents did. When I go to a doctor and they ask me what I’m on and I say “nothing” they are all shocked. Nothing? Nope, nothing. (I’m 56)
In the age where everything is a disease (dry eyes is a disease? Come on!) I guess those of us not on meds are the minority.
I watched my late father being poisoned by overprescription, and with the help of a very good VA doctor, we cut his meds in half. It was pure insanity, every specialist had to make their mark.
I also watched my nearest neighbor wither away, as he went from hospital to hospital looking for help. He was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig’s disease, and any number of other ailments before they discovered it was his cholesterol medicine. He has what is likely terminal neuropathy, as he continues to get worse, and can barely speak now.
I had a neuropathy issue myself, from taking Aleve. My thumbs started losing feeling, and it went into my hands. I still occasionally have numb tingles in my thumbs.
My own doctor had me on blood pressure medicine without ever once asking me about diet and exercise. The only pills I take now are vitamins and supplements, and I’m better for it.
All drugs should be handled with care. That aspirin bottle in your bathroom is deadly.
Aspirin, Tums, imodium, and triple antibiotic cream are the only meds in my truck.
I don’t even like taking aspirin. I tore my knees up playing soccer decades ago, and have learned to live with pain. The only alternative is to get hooked on something. I tried taking Aleve this past year, after pulling 14-18 hour days without ever sitting down or taking a break. We built an experimental plant and worked like dogs. Heavy lifting, constant physical monitoring, and concrete floors virtually crippled me. At the end of the day I could barely walk, and one morning I couldn’t walk at all.
Aleve took enough of the pain away to return to work, but after a week of taking one Aleve per day, I noticed numbness in my hands. The numbness moved up my arms before I discovered it wasn’t from over torquing on monster wrenches. I stopped taking Aleve after about 11 days, and feeling slowly started returning to my hands. It has been 8 months since I stopped, and my thumbs still tingle at times.
I would rather use a natural plant based substance any day of the week, rather than these strange concoctions approved by the FDA.
I am with you gator.
I take vitamin and minerals and try to stay away from everything else. I also had high blood pressure and corrected it with a change in diet. About the only thing I take that is not a ‘vitamin’ is glucosamine and chondroitin and Co Q 10. I was able to get off pain killers completely as a result. (I give glucosamine and chondroitin to one of my goats and one of my old ponies and they are now much livelier.)
Would you mind sharing the brands of G and C and Co Q 10? There are so many, I gave up on trying to determine which one was best. I also have neuropathy and severe back problems, in pain 24-7. Been on pain killers for over 10 years and slowly getting to the point of being totally immobilized, even walking a short distance aggravates it. Anybody’s advice welcomed.
Gail at elevated pressure is good extract of hawthorn. Regulates the work of the heart and circulation.
Ethanol & massive doses of caffeine. Usually in liquid form. Oh, & every few months a cigarette or cigar if my wife isn’t watching. But nothing else, not even aspirin or any of its substitutes.
What kind of vitamin and supplement? I suffer chronicle pain since I’m 20, even pain killer does nothing.
The pain may be autoimmune. Look for the good doctor.
Dutch government made tons of money during World War 1 by supplying the surrounding countries with drugs.
http://www.vice.com/read/holland-was-the-worlds-biggest-coke-manufacturer
gofer,
I use the Schiff brand Move Free chondroitin, glucosamine & MSM triple strength twice a day on the advice of a pharmacist. The Schiff brand minimizes allergic reactions if you are allergic to shellfish. (Crab will put me in the hospital) It takes about a month. Remember these are the building blocks for repairing the joints (including the spine) and not a pain killer. If joint deterioration from injury or wear and tear is not the problem it will not help. The Co Q 10 is for cardiovascular. I take 400 mg, and 200 mg at night. (Heart disease runs in my family)
http://www.mayoclinic.org/search/search-results?q=glucosamine
http://www.mayoclinic.org/search/search-results?q=chondroitin
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/coenzyme-q10/evidence/hrb-20059019
Do your homework look at the various studies. Diet can make a very big difference in how you feel and how healthy you are.
Conjugated Linoleic Acid is something else to look into.
http://nutrition.highwire.org/content/130/12/2943.short
Now you know why I have a small herd of sheep and goats.
Thanks so much. Does the brand of Co Q 10 matter and is there a standard dosage of G and C?
Puritan’s Pride has top quality CO Q10 at very good prices for the Q-SORB. They have many sales, and you can get cashback too by using an online rebate site. I like Top Cash Back. http://www.topcashback.com/ref/excalibur
“But the government has no business controlling people’s lives.”
Let me guess… you don’t have children do you? Should all drugs be legal? Should all prescription drugs be legal to buy without a prescription? I could save money and time spent at the doctors office and just go by some antibiotics. Does the government have any business keeping me from driving high? Is there no drug you would want to prevent your child from taking? Is there no actions people can choose to do that shouyld be illegal?
In my humble opinion people who are in favor of legalizing drugs because of a libertarian belief have simply never experienced the enormous harm these drugs cause.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR_r2EqXN_Q
Is there anything I as a father can prevent my child from taking if he wants to ? He will find a way. The only thing I can do is to try to take away the need for him to do so.
Ultimately I believe your correct. It’s kinda like firearms. Which is better off? The kid that is educated in what they are, how they work, and is familiar with their ability to kill that has the gun cabinet in his bedroom? Or the kid that is denied that knowledge and access by his parents/guardians who do everything they can to prevent them from having it and continually tell them they are just bad?
I say the former is safer and far less likely to abuse.
“In my humble opinion people who are in favor of legalizing drugs because of a libertarian belief have simply never experienced the enormous harm these drugs cause.”
Potential harm has nothing to do with it. It’s very simple: my body belongs to me, not to the government. I can do with it what I want, and *nobody* has the right to say otherwise. The government may step in when my actions harm others, such as driving while impaired.
If you want to outlaw things that may cause personal harm, the obvious first step is a return to Prohibition and a ban on tobacco. But then where do you stop? Cars (~35K annual deaths)? Cheeseburgers (heart disease is a big killer)? And then what? Telescreens and compulsory exercise? It’s a long, slippery slope you’re on.
+10
These same arguments were used to bring about prohibition, and then used to try and keep the 18th amendment in place. Alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana, and yet is considered to be a social event and even celebrated when served.
Think for a minute. If the government can produce study after peer reviewed study ‘proving’ that CO2 will destroy the planet, what could they do with pot?
Marijuana is a threat to Big Pharma, and was originally a target of the paper industry among others.
Whatever Big Brother decides is bad for us, they will find ways to ‘prove’ their point, and all backed by the best universities in the land.
Comedian Argus Hamilton: “The National Institute on Drug Abuse warned against legalization of marijuana after the latest study on pot’s effect on young people. The study discovered that the use of marijuana by teenagers may seriously affect their judgment once they become adults. It’s based on a study of President Obama.”
GoneWithTheWind says: “In my humble opinion people who are in favor of legalizing drugs because of a libertarian belief have simply never experienced the enormous harm these drugs cause.”
I do not mean to insult you, but no, your opinion is simply wrong. I am about as extreme libertarian as you can get, and I was raised by and around drug addicts and alcoholics. As a child I saw “the enormous harm these drugs cause.” It was such a perfect example of failure that I determined to never be like that when I grew up. Criminalization did not solve the problem then, it is not solving the problem now, and I see no reason to expect that increased criminalization will solve the problem in the future. I also see no historical evidence that drug use was more of a crisis back when they were legal than they are now. At least when they were legal we had fewer people being locked into the rape cages that pass for prison these days.
Is legalization the answer? Certainly it is not a perfect answer; I expect that there would stlll be a part of our population that abuses drugs — just as there is now. But at least people would have the freedom to (metaphorically) go to Hades unmolested and in their own way.
Until we have perfect humans and a perfect world, there will be no perfect answers. We must then experiment to see what works best, and the best experiment for legalization was the repeal of the 18th amendment. There was no increase in crime or addiction, in fact crime decreased and there were fewer citizens being criminalized.
I worked in East St Louis as a repoman in my early and mid twenties, and saw the worst of what drugs and prohibition of substances does to a community. Booze was the largest addiction problem by far, but few were ever killed over a booze deal.
Ooooohhhh…. East Saint Louis, huh? Had my car break down in East Saint Louis once back around 1969. I got out OK, but was not a warm fuzzy experience.
E St Louis was still OK in 1969, I worked with people who graduated from high school there in the late sixties and early seventies. But about ten years later it was in a death spiral. There was no garbage pick up, none, it filled the streets to the point that cars could not pass. The police had no working radios in their cars, and the mayor was a gangster. It was mayhem.
” But at least people would have the freedom to (metaphorically) go to Hades unmolested and in their own way.”
Indeed I would agree with you. But hard drug use harms many more people than the user. 80% of homicides are related to drug use. Almost all domestic violence is related to drug and alcohol use. 80% of property crime is related to drug use. Explain how this is acceptable?
But everyone is afraid of the obvious question: Should all drugs, in particular prescription drugs, be legal to buy over the counter? If not explain your obvious cognitive disconnect. If you agree then why should we even have the FDA? Why not just put all drugs on the market without testing since we don’t care if they kill you or cure you? Why should the FDA keep a potential life saving drug off the market for years? Just legalize them.
If you have children and someone offers them drugs and then takes advantage of them shuld their be no recourse? Today we punish people who sell or give drugs to children should we not punsih that? If you think we should continue to punish that than resolve the clear conflict with your belief that people should be able to do what they want with their body. What can parents do to protect their children. If we take the law out of the equation should parents be allowed to use lethal force against anyone giving their children drugs? Why not?
So many questions in the brave new world of do what ever feels good, huh!
Drug crime is created by prohibition, which is exactly what we learned from prohibition.
Someone is more likely to offer alcohol to your kids, which is more dangerous than pot. You are accepting myths created by the same people who created CAGW, myths created for the same reason.
If you want to teach your kids to do whatever feels right, then please keep them away from me.
No more strawmen please, they are brainless.
Oh and as for the FDA, like Ben Carson, I am for abolishing it.
“…But hard drug use harms many more people than the user. 80% of homicides are related to drug use. Almost all domestic violence is related to drug and alcohol use. 80% of property crime is related to drug use. Explain how this is acceptable?….”
That is exactly why we want them legalized.
When (booze) or drugs are legal you do not have the the drug cartels, the pushers or a lot of assorted crimes.
At this point drug and alcohol use are used as the EXCUSE for the related violence. That does not get to the underlying cause.
I agree with you and Ben Carson. ABOLISH the FDA.
It has now come to light that the FDA (and USDA) is used to give a the International Corporations a rubber stamp and not actually promote safety.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/fda-underreports-scientific-misconduct-peer-reviewed-articles-benefits-negative-321548
Shielding the Giant – USDA’s “Don’t Look, Don’t Know” Policy
How did our ignorant forebears ever survive without Big Brother?
Hey GoneWithTheWind! “Explain how this is acceptable?”
It is not. At least some of those stats are a direct result of criminalization. Explain how more criminalization will make the drug gangs less murderous.
“But everyone is afraid of the obvious question: Should all drugs, in particular prescription drugs, be legal to buy over the counter?”
I have never been shy about it. Why would you think I am? Yes, legalize prescription drugs.
“If you agree then why should we even have the FDA?”
The reason why we have the FDA is to make powerful people more powerful. I am against it. Let Underwriters Laboratory do the job.
“Why not just put all drugs on the market without testing since we don’t care if they kill you or cure you?”
Obvious strawman. Here is an analogy to your question. “If you agree that consenting adults can have sex, then why issue marriage licenses? Why not just have rapists roaming the streets having sex and killing people?”
As for the children and drugs issue, that is a small part of the entire “what is the legal status of non-adults.” Very complicated issue, and one that I am not ready to tackle. In the mean time, we DO have people offering drugs to children. Much (not all) of the time is it some officially sanctioned yahoo who says that Johnny needs Ritalin because he fidgets too much.
Freedom does not make the world a paradise, but it is surely preferable to coercion, kidnapping, caging and murdering people who do not live according to the dictates of a handful of people in various capitols.
In the United States in the 1950s, legally manufactured tablets of both dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine) and methamphetamine (Methedrine) became readily available and were used non-medically by college students, truck drivers, and athletes.
The small town grocery, where I grew up, had a gallon jug of them behind the check-out. My grandmother used them all the time. Now I know why she was so lively.
I think it is naive to think that making drugs legal will end drug lords and drug gangs. I will say this though; if it were true and the 80% of property crimes and the 80% of murders ended because all drugs were legalized than I would be for it. So if we ever decide to do it and the U.S. becomes a safer place because of it then I will be a convert to your belief. But I think that is just a pipe dream, something put out there by those who want drugs to be legal.
As for legalizing prescription drugs, if you claim you would be for it than either you are lying or simply don’t know what you don’t know. But in fact that is the only possible position a Libertarian could take. Because their position of hard drugs isn’t about freedom it is about using drugs. They want to legalize them so they can use them. A Libertarian is very conflicted when it comes to this issue and it exposes them for what they are; hipocrites.
But in fact that is the only possible position a Libertarian could take. Because their position of hard drugs isn’t about freedom it is about using drugs. They want to legalize them so they can use them.
That is the desperate lie of someone losing an argument. Libertarians are about freedom, and that includes allowing people to fail. I have had access to booze my entire life, and I am not an alcoholic.
I was as anti-drug as anyone you could have met, until I did my own research and learned I was wrong. Every country that has legalized drugs has seen a drop in addictions, crime, and hard drug usage. The facts are not on your side.
Glenn Beck is for the legalization of drugs, all drugs. As a Mormon he does not even consume caffeine or tobacco. So don’t try and pull that adhom nonsense again.
GoneWithTheWind,
I am not a libertarian, I am an independent. I am also the only one in my family who does not smoke, does not drink coffee, and has a 1/2 glass of wine maybe once every couple of years to be sociable.
The only drugs I take are for severe pain due to a back injury (And I have kicked that) and antihistamine since I am asthmatic. (As little as possible)
The drug problem is not a matter of law it is a matter of education.
At this point laws are completely useless.
http://i.imgur.com/48tp5Jg.jpg
“Libertarians are about freedom”
And yet I have never heard a libertarian advocate or be an activist for making prescription drugs legal for anyne to buy over the counter. Are they just too focused on recreational drugs or are they hypocritical. They shouldI want the freedom to buy any and all prescription drugs if they are all about freedom.
“Every country that has legalized drugs has seen a drop in addictions, crime, and hard drug usage”
Tell that to Holland.
“The drug problem is not a matter of law it is a matter of education”
Yes and no. Two problems with this theory: 1. There are addictive personalities. You cannot educate them out of using drugs. 2. Some drugs are so addictive that once used that person is an addict. Education won’t “unaddict” them. treatment sometimes will providing it also incarcerates them.
Education about drugs means zippo to a 13 year old child. They consistently do things contrary to good sense and their education. The problem with drugs are that it often cannot simply be reversed or gotten over.
Alcohol is unlike barbiturates and opiates and other hard drugs. It is much more difficult to overdose on alcohol. It is much easier and even intuitive to associate the level of intoxication to the “dose”. And the effects are short term. None of this really matters to an alcoholic but most people do not become addicted to alcohol and for msot people these factors make alcohol much easier to consume safely. This is not to say I don’t think Alcohol causes great harm because in fact it does. But comparing alcohol to “drugs” is like comparing apples to fish.
I don’t have to tell Holland anything, I’ve already been there and seen the horrific crime! 😆
Alcohol is deadly, and alcohol poisoning happens every day. Your hysteria over what other people do on their own time is really something to behold.
Lower crime and lower addiction rates frighten you? How many heads in how many duffle bags will be enough for you? 30,000 enough?
I’m also for legalizing prescription drugs, and have them sold over the counter.
I am an adult. I am responsible for me, and those in my charge. If I am unable to keep myself and those for whom I am responsible in check, then I am not a man.
Be a man.
“Your hysteria over what other people do on their own time is really something to behold.”
You have an interesting opinion about what constitutes hysteria. Don’t go to Chicago your drugs caused other people to kill 425 people on their own time. But no worries, I’m sure all those parents, siblings girlfriends and spouses of those people are consoled by your belief that they are hysterically concerned with what other people do on their own time.
You have an odd idea about math. I’ll see your 425 and raise you 30,000.
Prohibition causes more crime, and more death.
Mind your own business.
“mind your own business”.
Wouldn’t it be great if the druggies just went off into a corner and took their drugs and minded their own business? But what you seem unable to comprehend is drugs equates to crime. Either they must commit crimes to get drugs or to sell drugs or they commit crimes because they are in a drug induced stupor. The problem with drugs will not go away simply because we legalize them. The cost of drugs will not drop to zero and the people whose life revolves around drugs still won’t have the money to buy them legal or illegal. They will commit property crimes to get that money, they will rob convenience stores and mug innocent people to get the money. You see it isn’t the honest citizen who needs to mind his own business it is the druggies who inject themselves into our business. I realize you don’t understand this. I realize it is too complex for you to understand. That is abundantly clear because of your response to “mind your own business” as though I was some busybody counting your drinks at the party. Society is counting the dead bodies from drugs, counting the sexual assaults the property crimes, the homeless problems, etc. The druggies made this our business.
Wow! Ignore the facts and rant why don’t you? 😆
“…just three months after Colorado voters helped pass the legalization of marijuana, Denver is enjoying a 14.6% decrease in crime from the same time last year.
It’s all kinds of crime that has decreased, and not even all dispensaries were able to be up and running in Denver since January 1st due to regulatory hurdles and licensing issues still being sorted out. Property crime is down 14.6%. Violent crime is down 2.4%.”
Read more: http://naturalsociety.com/colorado-crime-rates-14-6-since-legalizing-marijuana/#ixzz3Sxi9alMK
“Compared to the European Union and the U.S., Portugal’s drug use numbers are impressive. Following decriminalization, Portugal had the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the E.U.: 10%. The most comparable figure in America is in people over 12: 39.8%. Proportionally, more Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used marijuana.
The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%; drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group). New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half. In addition, the number of people on methadone and buprenorphine treatment for drug addiction rose to 14,877 from 6,040, after decriminalization, and money saved on enforcement allowed for increased funding of drug-free treatment as well.
http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
Over the past four decades, the U.S. has spent more than $1 trillion fighting the war on drugs. The results? In 2011 a global commission on drug policy issued a report signed by George Shultz, Secretary of State under Ronald Reagan; the archconservative Peruvian writer-politician Mario Vargas Llosa; former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker; and former Presidents of Brazil and Mexico Fernando Henrique Cardoso and Ernesto Zedillo. It begins, “The global war on drugs has failed. … Vast expenditures on criminalization and repressive measures directed at producers, traffickers and consumers of illegal drugs have clearly failed to effectively curtail supply or consumption.” Its main recommendation is to “encourage experimentation by governments with models of legal regulation of drugs to undermine the power of organized crime and safeguard the health and security of their citizens.”
http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2013/07/18/will-legalizing-drugs-reduce-crime/#ixzz3Sxo57fId
So how do the citizens fare in this war? Let’s look at just one country…
Effects in Mexico
See also: Narcoculture in Mexico
Casualties
By the end of 2013, the estimated number of killed in the Mexican drug warfare was topping 111,000 people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/mexico-drug-wars-dismemberment-e1269491902474.jpg
Yeah, let’s keep this crusade going. Great idea.
The U.S. federal government spent over $15 billion dollars in 2010 on the War on Drugs, at a rate of about $500 per second.
-Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy
State and local governments spent at least another 25 billion dollars.
-Source: Jeffrey A. Miron & Kathrine Waldock: “The Budgetary Impact of Drug Prohibition,” 2010.
“What else could we spend $42 billion each year on? Health insurance for kids? Better paid teachers? It’s our choice.
What would you buy if you had an extra $42 billion to spend every year? What might our government buy if it suddenly had that much money dropped onto its lap every year?
For one thing, it might pay for the entire $7 billion annual increase in the State Children’s Health Insurance Program that President Bush is threatening to veto because of its cost — and there’d still be $35 billion left over.
Or perhaps you’d hire 880,000 schoolteachers at the average U.S. teacher salary of $47,602 per year.
Or give every one of our current teachers a 30 percent raise ( at a cost of $15 billion, according to the American Federation of Teachers ) and use what’s left to take a $27 billion whack out of the federal deficit.
Or use all $42 billion for a massive tax cut that would put an extra $140 in the pockets of every person in the country — $560 for a family of four.
The mind reels at the ways such a massive sum of money could be put to use.
Why $42 billion? Because that’s what our current marijuana laws cost American taxpayers each year, according to a new study by researcher Jon Gettman, Ph.D. — $10.7 billion in direct law enforcement costs, and $31.1 billion in lost tax revenues. And that may be an underestimate, at least on the law enforcement side, since Gettman made his calculations before the FBI released its latest arrest statistics in late September. The new FBI stats show an all-time record 829,627 marijuana arrests in 2006, 43,000 more than in 2005.
That’s like arresting every man, woman and child in the state of North Dakota plus every man, woman, and child in Des Moines, Iowa on marijuana charges … every year. Arrests for marijuana possession — not sales or trafficking, just possession — totaled 738,916. By comparison, there were 611,523 arrests last year for all violent crimes combined.”
http://www.mpp.org/media/op-eds/the-war-of-pot-americas-42.html
Just in economic terms, it makes complete sense. And that’s before you count all the headless corpses, kidnappings, and ruined lives.
Like I said, when you fully investigate the issue, the answer is very clear for a critical thinker, but maybe not so much for a zealot.
“Wow! Ignore the facts and rant why don’t you?”
And then you follow with a dozen or so posts. I don’t think that “rant” means what you think it does.
rant verb \?rant\ 1- to talk loudly and in a way that shows anger 2- to complain in a way that is unreasonable
Nope, it means just what I thought. I am not angry or complaining, unlike you. I simply supplied facts and quotes showing that your stance is wrong.
What we are doing now does not work. I am not insane, so I suggest we try something else.
We could try what Singapore is doing.
Or you and your family could move there. Enjoy!
I would suggest reading Lessons of history: China’s century of humiliation: The repercussions of British opportunism in China during the Opium Wars can be felt in geopolitics even today
It has a time line of the opium from 3,400BC. We can thank the Brits for promoting the opium trade and even having a war with China when they try to ban it.
The Elite have been making money off drugs for hundreds of years. Remember the Kennedy money came from drug trafficking (Alcohol during prohibition and who knows what else.) Papa Joe was rewarded with an Ambassadorship and his kids went into politics.
The fact that someone rich or poor makes money selling these drugs is not a good arguement to legalize them. It is likely that legalization will result in more deaths, more young children’s lives ruined and more crime. It is unlikely that someone who would today kill someone over drug territory would suddenly become a productive non-violent citizen after drugs are legalized. All of this is an acedemic arguement because I don’t think you can convince the vast majority of people in this country; people with children and grand children, to legalize crack and meth. Pot is a different story and may well become legal or decriminalized in most of the country in the next 20 years. I simply don’t think there is an effective arguement that can be made to convince yur basic law abiding and religious middle class family voter to legalize the most harmful drugs.
Colorado is a bit of a mess right now. Our governor is in bed with the lefties. We may still be able to frac, but not without a lot of unnecessary restrictions that will eventually drive away most of the oil and gas companies. As for dope, I think there may be significant downsides in the future. Studies are showing that significant use decreases IQ. They will be filming Idiocracy Too in Colorado and no one will have to act, it will all be natural.
But the greatest fear I have is that the THC content in marijuana, which is currently unrestricted, is going to be increasing significantly in the future. Plants are going to be re-bred to increase the THC content and I’m afraid that users are going to develop some major psychosis. And under Obamacare I’m going to be the one to pay for the damage that will be done.
If people want to smoke marijuana, go ahead, but be responsible for your own health needs.
Little things. Are you not bothered by real problems, like hypermasculinity and heteronormativity raging among the males on CU Boulder campus?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTpzhwZfpsc
Under NO circumstances, mention that you are a NORMAL heterosexual male !!!!
Colorado Wellington, I have little knowledge of hypermasculinity and heteronormativity at the University of Colorado. When I attended CU I was known as a “nerd”. And I surrounded myself with nerds. I could be identified as a nerd by the pocket protector I wore and the slide rule hanging from my belt. And no doubt by being seen walking into the engineering center. CU has always operated a little off the beaten path and now it couldn’t find itself back to normality if it wanted to. I find myself embarrassed by the antics of the staff and students. I used to believe that the status of a University was determined by it’s football teams success; now I wish they would get rid of all sports and concentrate of teaching. CU, like most universities, is churning out useless idiots that will spend the next decade living with their parents because they didn’t get a degree in an area that would get them a job. There is so much money available to go to school that very few of the students have any “skin” in the game. With no “skin” they go to school to party. Students need to go back to working to earn money for their degrees. No more money from Mommy and Daddy.
For an interesting look into how far our higher educational system has devolved, see http://professorconfess.blogspot.com/
The fight for freedom will not come in DC, but in the state Capitals around the nation. I applaud Colorado and look for more states to follow suit (some are ahead of Colorado, some have not even started on the path – Witness California’s latest stupidity).
“In my humble opinion people who are in favor of legalizing drugs because of a libertarian belief have simply never experienced the enormous harm these drugs cause.”
Life is Lethal, get over it!
We have a choice.
Big Brother can place us in nice safe labor camps (Transit Villages ) telling us, when to get up, when to eat, what to eat, when to exercise, how much entertainment we can watch…
OR we can have freedom with all its inherent dangers.
We are now at the point of having to make that choice. It is called “Health Freedom” and in the normal Orwellian manner it is all about taking away your freedom.
I strongly suggest you read the comments at Jo Nova’s starting HERE:
http://joannenova.com.au/2015/02/ny-times-willie-soon-character-assassination-is-not-science/#comment-1684866
The Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee (DGAC) came up with the recommendation that America Should Adopt a ‘Plant-Based’ Diet. It recommends:
Hillary Clinton stated the position of the Big Brother Nanny State very clearly:
““We just can’t trust the American people to make those types of choices” “Government has to make those choices for people.””
This quote comes from a conversation relayed by Rep. Dennis Hastert of Illinois, then the chairman of the Republicans’ House task force on health care, at a 1993 meeting with Hillary Clinton
Clinton also spoke of admiring the UK government invading peoples homes to tell them how to raise their children:
“The visiting nurses program in England where people come into the home to try to make sure the parents know what they’re doing, and that’s for everybody from Princess Di down to a single teen-age mother. There’s just more of a recognition that the entire society has a stake in making sure parents do as good a job as they can.” (Scotland is now assigning a government minder to each child at birth)
From her book, “It Takes a Village: And Other Lessons Our Children Teach Us”
link
We have two new schools, a high school (no pun intended) and a new elementary school. Schools helped built by the “evil” herba. Who woulda guessed. Yet prescription drugs for ADHD are allowed in schools without question it seems. Crime has gone down in Colorado. People feel more optimistic than ever. Obama should at least get some credit for giving up the war on a plant less dangerous than other legal substances. Should we not focus on bigger issues. We strain a camel to swallow a gnat?