Barack Hussein Obama blames The Crusades.
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To be fair, we destroyed a lot of antiquities when we bombed German museums.
To be fair, I wish that progressives would get a brain.
To be fair, give me the list of museums that were specifically targeted for destruction.
To be really fair, and state the obvious for you, that was from the air in a different era and not done intentionally in a hands on manner for religious or cultural regions. In short the allies did not target museums or historical sites with the intent of destroying history or antiquities. ISIS and the Taliban have.
Bombed German Museums? I can assure you we did not target museums, like the inhuman savages are doing now. We actually sent art historians overseas to prevent destruction of significant art.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CreneTs7sGs
We? You and who? Public School grad?
Heh. Shorter and probably more effective than what I’m trying to say below.
To be fair, your comment is perfectly in line with the Progressive thought of our times, here and in Europe.
I first came across it some 30 years ago in Germany. Just as now, the United States was the declared enemy of the German Leftists and Greens but it was still not common to criticize American role in the defeat of the Third Reich. The Left tried to keep a respectful distance from the Nazis to maintain the pretense that they were at the opposite end of the ideological spectrum—the Extreme Right, of course!
Criticizing Americans for defeating the Nazis would have made a big dent in that pretense so it was generally not being done in mainstream circles. It was within that context that I realized the significance of a remark a radical German Green made to me during a discussion of WWII. We spoke about German civilian deaths and the old cities destroyed in the Allied bombing raids on the German homeland in the final year of the war. He was getting increasingly more agitated and he called it a war crime against Germany.
I thought that in his anti-American zeal he just overshot the target and I would easily put his argument away. I told him I knew how hard the bombing was on German civilians but it’s clear it reduced the country’s war-fighting capacity and hastened the fall of the Nazis. I asked him what his solution would have been for the Jews still alive in Nazi concentration camps towards the end of the war. I wanted to know if he thought they would have approved of the bombing if it brought the American liberation of their camps just one day earlier and if he thought their opinion should count. In those days, anti-Semitism was still unpopular with the German Left and I expected my question would end the discussion. He floored me when he replied:
Literally translated:
But probably truer as:
I was speechless for a moment and I don’t remember much what was said afterwards. I just recall thinking:
”Die gesunden Kräfte des Deutschen Volkes. Das gesunde Volk. Volk und Reich. Blut und Boden.”
I thought I could hear the Führer’s peculiar diction in the man’s sentence. Later, I came to understand that he was just ahead of his time.
To be fair, tabnumlock, I have no clue where you stand on such things. Maybe you are just trying to show your all-embracing fairness and open-mindedness without understanding much about history. Maybe you’ve never heard of Lenin’s “useful idiots”. And maybe you know exactly what you are doing.
Only you can tell us which it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58XIZgyjyVw
I lived in Germany about a decade before your encounter. At that time the Germans were still ashamed over their actions and inactions, the wounds were still fresh. The only time I ever had any German question the US bombings (or the allies in WWII), was on a visit to Rothenburg ob der Tauber. Though there were German soldiers stationed there at the time, the innkeeper insisted it was not a strategic target, and did not understand why we would bomb a peaceful historic town.
Upon return to Patch Barracks, the post historian looked into this bombing, and after a little digging discovered that we bombed the wrong Rothenburg. There are two, and the other had a ball bearing factory that we were after. Fog of war.
Thanks for your recollection, Gator. It was still rare in the early 80s to criticize the Allied air raids.
Concerning your post historian’s research, there may have been a “fog of documentation” in play as well. Do you remember if he had a good internet connection at the barracks in the 70s? 🙂
Here is what I can do from my desk today:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothenburg_ob_der_Tauber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothenburg_ob_der_Tauber
I know it’s only Wikipedia but both the German and the English version seem to be well sourced.
The German version claims that Rothenburg became replacement target in the March 31, 1954 air raid when an oil depot in Ebrach some 30 miles away could not be attacked because of ground fog. It also says that the participating squadron members of the 386th Bombardment Group knew anything about the historical significance of the town.
The WWII part of the English version has large section that is sourced from the memoirs of Private William Dwyer who was one of 6 soldiers of the 12th Infantry Regiment dispatched by battalion commander Frank Burke to negotiate the surrender of the town so it would not be further damaged after the March 31 bombing. The local military commander Major Thömmes gave up the town without resistance.
One more note about the innkeeper’s “peaceful historic town”.
Both Wikipedia articles talk about the shameful role that Rothenburg and its citizens played in the buildup of Nazi ideology. The NSDAP got 83% of the vote in the 1933 election and “Kraft durch Freude” organized member trips from all over the Reich to the “the most German of German towns”. Reprisals against Jews started in 1933 and by 1938 all local Jews were expelled by the town’s SA-Men and Hitlerjugend. The town celebrated its cleansing and “liberation from Jews” by holding a “Freudenfest”.
While the 1945 air raid was accidental, the Rothenburg townspeople were lucky that the advancing American ground troops knew nothing of the town’s strong Nazi symbolism. Private Dwyer and his five companions probably wouldn’t have risked their lives to save the town, despite an order by Assistant Secretary of War John McCloy to not use artillery against it. One can imagine quite a few of the advancing soldiers would have had a similar reaction to that of US troops arriving at Dachau.
Towards the end as US forces advanced on a town they would enter without artillery preparation if white sheets were prominently displayed signifying surrender. If the sheets were not there then it was assumed to be held by enemy soldiers. Even with the sheets if a single shot from a sniper rang out they would back out and plaster the place. Eventually the word spread and in some cases the Burgermeisters would come out and meet the advancing troops and in some cases even give up the location of the few fanatical soldiers in the town or village.
Patton enraged that a patrol was ambushed in one German town that had the sheets displayed ordered it leveled. The word got out and there were not more of those types incidents.
As I recall, what made Rothenburg an alternate target, was the belief that it held that ball bearing factory. As for the Nazi support, it was misguided, just like all those folks today who are starving people over a trace gas. I believe most people are good, and if the Germans had known what Hitler was going to do they would have no more supported him than Americans would support straving innocents today, but politics happen.
To be clear, I was not questioning the ball bearing factory reason for the bombing. The secondary targets must have been part of the pre-flight briefings and I assume the historian found some way to look into the target lists for the raids.
After hundreds of years of beheadings, rapes, kidnappings and the enslavement of Christians by Islamists, the Pope in Rome pleaded with the Kings of Europe to lend aid and launch the first crusade.
Is Obama blaming the church of Rome for ignoring the growing threat and persecution by Islamists and delaying the defensive action or the failure of the defensive action?
Well,well-so the crusades are to blame for mohammed being a pedophile(married his best friends daughter at the age of 6 and therefore legalising pedophilia)
massmurderer.
The crusades are to blame for islam killing christians,jews,bhuddists,hindhus,zaraostrians etc and conquering north africa,southern europe and india.
The crusades are to blame for muslims attacking ,killing and enslaving over and over again
south europeans(barbary coast),slavic people(tartars/chechens) for centuries.
The crusades are to blame for high incest rates(cousin marriages) in muslim countries
resulting in mentally a/o physically handicapped people and psychopathy.
The crusades are to blame for islam annecting west-india(which is 40x bigger than israel).
the crusades are to blame for slavery being legal in islam just like chopping of hands,heads feets.
(in Mauretania muslim arabs enslaving black people on a huge scale is still going on thx to people like obama being silent about it(and in Mali,Sudan etc)and western media and politicians like barak refuse to talk about it-instead
we get some hollywood crap like “12 years a slave” and have to worship black high criminal human crap like treyvvon and mike brown instead of helping those black people who really need help and would be grateful.
imo(and i’m from muslim origin)
If there ever have been good a good war(s)
than it are the crusades-thx to those guys chasing back muslims to their shitholes they created,my mother and sister are not treated like 3rd class humans because of their gender anf i don’t have to live like a primitive idiot being a carpet crawler praying
to pervert sadist allah 5x a day.
(btw many of the crusades never reached muslim territories)
leftist logic:
Muslims crusades ,ethnicall cleansing ,colonialisation,forced conversions,racism and enslavery on a large scale+invading and taking over millions of millions of square miles of territory for centuries that do not belong to islam are called expansion and are a gift from heaven.
Taking back a little bit of this territories(that’s what crusades are about) in a few decades=crime of the millenia
Nice summary.
I too am thankful my Syrian Grandfather came to America and converted to Christianity.
IS are trying to provoke a ground war with the west. It is their only real chance of bringing other islamic countries into their war.
To be fair, Judeo-Christianity would have erased Western Civ if Alexander hadn’t built so many Greek cities all over the Middle East. Fortunately, they didn’t smash up the architecture and statues, just coopted them. But they did destroy most of Western knowledge in Europe.
“To be fair, Judeo-Christianity would have erased Western Civ if Alexander hadn’t built so many Greek cities all over the Middle East.”
Where in the Hell do you get that idea? The Jewish Temple was destroyed by Romans. And Hagia Sophia was a Christian church until the Muslims attacked and turned it into a mosque, erasing the Christian heritage. And what sits on the Temple Mount today?
If not for the Crusades, western civilization would have been erased by the Arabs.
And the library at Alexandria, the greatest known depository of knowledge in the ancient world was destroyed over time by several different religions/cultures but primarily by the Romans and Arabs.
What parts of “Western knowledge” did the “Judeo-Christians” destroy in Europe?
Just to bad that those Jewish guys working on Fat Man and Little Boy weren’t a little more proficient, as they could have tried them out on the Father Land.