We have been hearing non-stop propaganda about the super-hot Arctic melting down, and how it is President Trump’s fault.
As with almost everything else you read in the press, it is fake news. Arctic sea ice extent is about the same as 2006 and 2016.
Charctic Interactive Sea Ice Graph | Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis
Polar temperatures have plummeted, and are the coldest in several years.
Ocean and Ice Services | Danmarks Meteorologiske Institut
ESRL : PSD : PSD Map Room: Weather Plots
Greenland has gained record amounts of ice this winter.
Greenland Ice Sheet Surface Mass Budget: DMI
And the scam ends today!
And we’ve got snow today!
TONY’S SLIDES
https://realclimatescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Olympia-Washington-February-7-2017-3.pdf
They are from his Washington State presentation
Video of that presentation is here:
https://realclimatescience.com/2017/02/my-washington-state-senate-presentation/
Gail, thanks for the link to Tony’s slide show.
I bookmarked it this time (-:
Obviously more of that global warming snow.
The temp anomaly chart shows a fall in the last week, sure.
But the point is it should have been following the nice yellow line all winter – and it has to date been consistently far above the mean.
The whole winter has so far seen massively warm anomalies in temp.
and it is only now that foer a few days wind blown ice has allowed 2017 to cross the next lowest extent on record.
What you are really saying is ‘still at second lowest on record, massively lower than 1979, with thinner, younger ice and less icve volume (do print a volume chrt or the PIOMAS!)
This is simply desperate.
The whole of Russia has had a massive COLD anomaly,
You are really simple, griff. You obviously have no comprehension of the Jet Stream WEATHER event, do you.
IGNORNACE is inbuilt with you, isn’t it.
And the FACT that you care more about a tiny deviation in sea ice than you do about people actually DYING because of the MASSIVE COLD ANOMALY over Russia. https://www.rt.com/news/russia-freeze-cold-temperature-379/
And yes it has been desperate in northern Russia
BUT YOU DON’T GIVE A STUFF .. its only humans, not sea ice.!!
You really are a disgusting low-life piece of fungus ridden human toe-nail clipping,, aren’t you griff.
C’mon Andy.
Tell us how you REALLY feel about Griff.
I’m starting to get the impression Andy’s developing a bit of dislike towards the lady …
Hey, it come here PURELY as an attention seeking troll, wanting a response from someone, anyone, in its lonely desperate life.
Who am I to deny it the love that it misses in the rest of its pitiful existence.
SNIFFFfffffff….
I do worry he is getting a bit het up: this is only a discussion on the internet after all. I do think his incivility is out of order in a discussion of science, but then it is, as I say, the internet.
Andy I have a different interpretation of the science to you (and to this website).
I feel that the truth about this aspect of science/climate is important and should be discussed, which means challenging the assertions people make about it.
No griff, you are TOTALLY IGNORANT of science..
Not a matter of interpretation.
If you feel that the truth is important, maybe you should start to accept it, and look deeper and past the propaganda pap you have been fed.
But you are INCAPABLE of doing that, aren’t you griff… your problem to solve, not ours.
As it is, with your base-level scientific ignorance, you are just making a monumental FOOL of yourself.
Ms Griff, if you have something to say about science it is about time to do so instead of your mindless comments.
I’m sure looking forward to the open season on extinctionists like yourself.
No Griffy,
You are not interested in discussing science, you are only interested in protecting a dis-information campaign designed to enslave or kill people.
You completely ignore ANY AND ALL Quaternary Science showing NOTHING unusual is happening and the ONLY real climate change possible is a descent into glaciation.
Yes. Griff focuses exclusively on Arctic ice from 1979 onward. Griff has blinders on so that he/she/it does not have to address the satellite record prior to 1979 as shown in the FAR IPCC report. And even Walt Meier of NASA, formerly of the NSIDC, acknowledges that there has been considerably less Arctic sea ice than present at times during the Holocene. But anything detracting one iota from the message of climate doom is terra incognito for Griff.
That’s expected. Ms Griff is mentally very young …
But the point is it should have been following the nice yellow line all winter…
Why should it do that Ms Griff? Do you not understand what that “nice yellow line” is? Obviously you do not.
So why do you want to starve millions, over something you obviously do not get?
I am confused. All of the temps are below the line at 273 K and yet the sea ice is melting. How does that work, again?
If it isn’t deviating from the mean, it ought to be tracking the mean. Perhaps following was the wrong word.
If things aren’t changing, then they may vary, but they will still be found close to the mean.
Instead what we have seen is high temp anomalies since.. about December 2015…
You are right , its got a LONG way to drop before it get anywhere near the pre-LIA mean.
Or are you going to continue to be a Climate Change Denier ???
“If it isn’t deviating from the mean, it ought to be tracking the mean.” — WHY?
The earth’s climate is NOT linear can’t you get that through your thick skull.
Even the IPCC admitted the earth’s climate is NOT linear.
As Dr Brown, physicist @ Duke University said
“The Earth’s climate is manifestly, empirically bistable, with a warm phase and cold phase, and the cold phase is both more likely and more stable.”
The present continent configuration, with the closing of the Isthmus of Panama and the opening of Drake Passage had a major impact on the Earth’s climate causing the present Ice Age and the earth is now in an ice age, (just the brief warm spike.) You can see in this graph of the last five million years the switches from one ‘Strange Attractor’ to another.
Hey Gail, I just had to put in a “thank you” for reposting some of Dr. Brown’s comments. It is always a pleasure to read his insightful and clearly expressed thoughts. I am especially impressed with his (in my opinion) wonderful understanding of the chaotic nature of the planetary climate system. He nails it!
If you look at the Wisconsin glaciation, between the last interglacial and this one you can also see these “abrupt swings” called Dansgaard–Oeschger events in this graph.
Both of these graphs support the idea of the climate as a “Complex nonlinear multivariate systems… exhibit[ing] “strange attractors” and not some simplistic never changing ‘Garden of Eden’
Do you mean the meaningless mean Ms Griff? So why are you mean to poor brown people?
It’s a green line. Or am I the one who is color blind.
Why, it is, Scott, but what color is this dress?
PUCE… ?
Asking the wrong question there lol
It appears to be the colors one finds in an aging hematoma to me.
Oh that reminds me, Alan Colmes passed away. A great loss to those of us that appreciate unintended social/political humor.
LOL! Have you even looked to see what the temps were? Here is a bit of common sense for you Griff. The red line never has gotten close to going over the straight blue line which denotes the freezing point of water. Significant ice loss during the winter months at the poles does not occur due to air temperatures. It took relatively little energy to make that red line jump as it has during the cold months. To put the red line over the top of the blue line takes a massive amount of energy. Energy like oh, say, the ice and water being exposed to sunshine 24/7 as it is during the summer months at the poles.
I love how the arctic is “melting”. At -180 C, ice is only 1.8% more dense than ice at 0 c. According to the graph, the heatwave temps are currently averaging what -18 C (-1 F) vs -28 C (-18 F). So basically the “warm” spell being experienced this winter means nothing other than the basis for #fakenews headlines.
The temps at the pole in winter are going to be low/sub zero generally… but if they are not as low, if they in fact cross above zero, then that is still a change in temps, an anomaly.
In the past we have not seen this…
In the past…. do you mean in the 5 or so years you have been barely partially cognisant ?
Or do you mean the past, as in the current interglacial?
Choose your period.. like the AGW worriers always do.
“In the past we have not seen this…”
Who is “we“, Kemosabe?
Who is “we“?
LOL! define a “Climate anomaly” because that is what you claim this indicates.
“Arctic melting”. So in other words, it’s not global, as in global warming. Still shoots the theory down.
And when you start in 1979, a high point, instead of earlier when it was lower, you are indeed desperate.
The “yellow line” (actually I think it’s green) is a mental construct based on averaging. It is not reality.
Let me explain in a way understandable perhaps by those of lesser intelligence/knowledge. The average of individual rolls of a six sided die computed over a large number of rolls should be close to 3.5. In reality, a roll of 3.5 is never observed. Roughly, half the time, rolls will be 1, 2 or 3 and half the time, 4, 5 or 6. A roll of 3.5 is never observed, even though that is what the average “should” be.
One cannot say, oh the roll was larger than it should have been or it is lower than it should have been, but yet the less intelligent/ignorant/deceived will look at the temperature in the Arctic and say, “Look, the temperature is higher than is should be.” There is no should in weather data any more than a die should roll a 3.5.
Hey R Shearer! Nice analogy! If I may expand on it a bit more…
Yes, as you say, the average roll will be 3.5 if we do a long enough series. But where does that 3.5 come from? It is based on the idea that all the possibilities from 1 to 6 are equally likely and that each roll is disconnected from the previous roll. It is possible to create a die that will NOT have equal chances for all numbers from 1 to 6, but will still have a long term average of 3.5. It is also possible to create a die such that each roll is influenced to some degree by previous rolls, but which still has that same 3.5 average.
In the case of climate we know that there are some states which are more stable than others. The system has multiple pseudo-stable attractors, each of which the climate tends to dance around for varying periods of time. The most obvious somewhat stable states are the glacial and interstadial periods — but each of those broad states has successively finer gradations in shorter periods.
The alarmists are like someone who observes the die roll two or three sixes in a row and exclaims that the die is loaded. Even in a fair die, that is too short a series to make a determination of loaded or not loaded — but when speaking of a die which we know has varying (and changing) probabilities for one through six, and which we know also has at least some correlation between each roll and the next, the series of two or three rolls is FAR too short, VERY FAR too short.
We simply do not have enough information to make definitive statements about climate and causality. Considering the chaotic nature of the climate we are likely to NEVER have enough information for definitive statements. The best we can do at present is to look at the historical record (short as it is) and assume that future states of the climate will be similar to the various states which have been observed in the past. The alarmists are not even willing to do that much, to compare present observations with what we know from the past. We know that most of the Holocene has been warmer than at present, that summer sea ice has been missing from the Arctic in the relatively recent past without catastrophe. Current fluctuations in sea ice seem to be nothing out of the ordinary — so where is the catastrophe? The alarmists claim that the planet is in danger, but they won’t even examine the past before three or four decades ago.
Madness!
Madness!…
OR Psych-Ops:
We KNOW that CAGW is Psych-Ops because they have told us it is. They even told us the goal. The elite have decided they want fewer serfs with MUCH less freedom and they see CAGW as the way to convince the serfs to accept their slave collars peacefully.
“It is a campaign not for abundance but for austerity. It is a campaign not for more freedom but for less. Strangest of all, it is a campaign not just against other people, but against ourselves.” -George Monbiot, UK Ecojournalist
More recently:
“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.” – Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation
“Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun.” —Dr. Paul Ehrlich, Anne Ehrlich, and Dr. John Holdren, Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment, 1970, p. 323
“A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our economic system into line with the realities of ecology and the world resource situation.” —Dr. Paul Ehrlich, Anne Ehrlich, and Dr. John Holdren, Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment, 1970, p. 323
Or as Ted Turner, founder of CNN and the UN Foundation bluntly put it during an interview with Audubon magazine.
“A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.” – Source: The book You Don’t Say, by Fred Gielow, 1999, page 189.
Changing the Global Warming Metaphor by PETER BELMONT
Yeah, MADNESS, but ONLY if you are the target of the slavers.
Why can’t we locate the UN in Liberia, Kenya or even South Africa? I am all for no UN as they are anti people, barring that, relocate the parasite.
North Korea or Iran
Or better yet Antarctica!
Antarctica is governed internationally through the Antarctic Treaty system. LINK So what better place to locate the UN?
Antarctica!!
Brilliant. Can’t wait to see the globalists bellied up to the tiki bar in July with a REALLY frozen drink in their hands.
What a great idea Gail. We could house the UN in the old ‘dome’ at Amundsen/Scott South Pole Station …….. before it gets totally covered by melting ice ;)
I like the idea. Look at all the empty land around. They could expand the campus as much as they wanted. No more problems with illegal parking, expensive escorts and drunk driving arrests. They could bring in cheap foreign hookers without applying for visas and run snowmobiles from one party to another all night long.
Errata: all the empty
landice aroundIt’s a little known fact in “skeptical” circles that I’m a faculty member at the University of Antarctica:
http://www.antarcticaedu.com/
GOOD!
Looks like we can PERMANENTLY locate Jimmy Boy to Antarctica TOO!
Careful Bruce, Jimbo will say that is wind-blown sand in the Sahara, because you didn’t give a link !! :-)
Too much snow on the sand to blow it anywhere Andy ;)
;-)
Poor Jimbo, his fantasy world is in collapse.
Question for Jimbo, the Exeter Uni arse-licker..
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Another question for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
How much human suffering does mild weather at the pole cause? Apparently very little. Especially when you take multiple record crops in the US corn belt into account. Along with lack of major hurricanes in the US for over 10 years, four straight subnormal tornado seasons, decline in severe US summer heatwaves, the current near record low percentage of US land area now sustaining drought, above normal Northern Hemisphere snowcover, etc., etc.
Sounds more like the Garden of Eden to me. Instead of whining, bitching and moaning about the climate, you should be counting our blessings.
Also, instead of counting our blessings about our abundant and inexpensive energy resources and our ever increasing ability to make it cleaner with time, you want to curse the world with expensive, unreliable energy and its accompanying poverty and misery. Based on a highly dubious notion that through world communism and draconian regulation, humanity somehow has the magical capacity to make the weather better 50 or 100 years in the future. As they say, if it ain’t broke, don’t try to fix it.
Griff = Chicken Little … no matter what happens the sky is always falling in Griffs obsessive-compulsive alarmist world.
http://i39.tinypic.com/16hsolz.jpg
You are now into hyperbolic level lying,Griff.
Give it up.
HERE ARE TONY’s SLIDES
https://realclimatescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Olympia-Washington-February-7-2017-3.pdf
They are from his Washington State presentation
Video of that presentation is here:
https://realclimatescience.com/2017/02/my-washington-state-senate-presentation/
Only warming shown in any graph is from adjusted temp data. Real and observed temp increased since around 1900 is less than 1 deg C.
People talking and going to the CPAC meeting
BE CAREFUL
There are GANGS of mask wearing green/far-left mercenary democrat THUGS trying to shut down rational arguments.
If I were attending a meeting like that, I would participate under the assumption that ** everything ** I was doing or saying was being recorded by George Soros-paid trolls (or the MSM, which are basically the same thing), so as to try to embarrass me at a later date.
Actually I think they are “yellow” not green in reality.
I think they are another color and are malodorous. This may give you a hint of what I’m talking about:
T- Trump
U- Unacceptance
R- Resistance
D- Disorder
+1
Knock em out.
It’s all nonsense:
Climate “Science” on Trial; Sea Ice Sophistry
https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2017/01/28/climate-science-on-trial-sea-ice-sophistry/
Note that village idiots graduate from the University of East Anglia– the home of global warming in the UK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF-CkMpQtlY
The other issue with trying to compare the red trend to the the green average is that in areas (like the Arctic) with relatively low humidity, small energy balance fluctuations can cause large changes in observed temperatures. There simply isn’t enough water vapor in the air to stabilize the air temperature near the green line due to a very low specific heat capacity of dry air. I would bet that if one plotted the variance range along with the green temperature average, one would find that the red lines are well within normal variations experienced throughout the temperature record.
First, my apologies to “Griff”. Since my grandfather, born 1890, had the nickname Griff, I automatically thought of his old, grizzled face and assumed this “Griff” had the same. Well, I guess not.
But to my point. Natural Variability is the skeptic’s friend. It only takes a little research to see it lurks everywhere. That always should have been the default position. If the IPCC had spent as much time seeking out natural variability as they did in justifying their AGW theory, history would have taken a different turn. Once the Arctic begins its reversion to mean journey, the warmists will be left with nothing but egg on their face. I hope to still be around to ask them “Is that scrambled or over easy?”
OT…. You guys are gunna love this one.. :-)
http://joannenova.com.au/2017/02/solar-homes-use-more-grid-electricity-than-non-solar-homes/
Other example how ‘green’ energy makes life of the poor even more miserable. Which means the poor need more help from the government which means higher taxes which means more poor people etc..
Mankind only advanced because it was able to bring the cost of energy down and the availability up.
It is all about wealth distribution. From We The people to people like Al Gore or Soros.
It is not just about wealth redistribution from the poor to the rich, that is bad enough. Instead it is about complete control of the economy and complete destruction and enslavement of the middle class so NO ONE has a chance at challenging the entrenched ‘aristocracy’
Marx shows in this quote the enemy is NOT the Rich Aristocracy, the ‘natural superiors’ of the worker-serfs, but the middle class who are upsetting the motley feudal ties that bound man to his ‘natural superiors.’
That is why Marx attacks property ownership. Because if you can not OWN property you ARE property. ONLY the ability to own property allows you freedom from the motley feudal ties that bound man to his ‘natural superiors.’
We are seeing this in the USA. First by the consolidation of work options by the Trans-national corporations and now IF you do not conform to globalist thought you lose your job as Tony and Dr Gray and Dr Ball and Dr Happer have experienced.
Exactly! I am a nobody who refused to conform to globalist thought and was offended by being required to support “Sustainability” and Al Gore’s stupid movie. Cost me my job too.
Even small (and large) business owners are not immune to ‘Group Think’
#grabyourwallet | Boycott These Companies
https://grabyourwallet.org/
Of course that works both ways though the Surly Curmudgeons are not as likely to ‘be organized’ by ‘community organizers’ (Commies) as the Leftist Lemmings are.
Did anyone posting see the talk by Steve Milloy and James delingpole ? I only learned of it this afternoon.
To be 33C or not to be 33C
There is a popular fantasy that the earth is 33C warmer with an atmosphere than without due to the radiative greenhouse effect, RGHE.
Let’s start at the very beginning, a very good place to start – so I hear.
The 33C difference is between an alleged average surface temperature of 288K/15C and 255K/-18C, the alleged surface temperature without an atmosphere. Let’s take a closer look.
Per IPCC AR5 glossary the average land surface temperature is measured 1.5 meters above the ground, but 80% of the land doesn’t even have reliable weather instrumentation or data. The average sea surface temperature is a combination of buckets and thermometers, engine cooling intakes, buoys, satellites, etc. This “global” surface average temperature, one number to rule them all, must represent: both lit side and dark sides, both poles, oceans, desert, jungles and a wide range of both land and sea surfaces. The uncertainty band must be YUGE!
The 255K is a theoretical calculation using the S-B ideal BB temperature associated with the 240 W/m^2 radiative balance at the top of the – wait for it – atmosphere, i.e. 100 km.
So, the 33C difference is between a) an average surface temperature composed of thousands of WAGs that must be +/- entire degrees and b) a theoretical temperature calculation 100 km away that cannot even be measured and c) all with an intact and fully functioning atmosphere.
The surface of the earth is warm because the atmosphere provides an insulating blanket, a thermal resistance, no different from the insulation in the ceiling and walls of a house with the temperature differential determined per the equation Q = U * A * dT, simple to verify and demonstrate.
A voltage difference is needed for current to flow through an electrical resistance.
A pressure difference is needed for fluid to flow through a physical resistance.
A temperature difference is needed for energy to flow, i.e. heat, through a thermal resistance.
RGHE upwelling/downwelling/”back” radiation is a fictional anti-thermodynamic non-explanation for the “33C without an atmosphere” phenomenon that doesn’t exist.
“A pressure difference is needed for fluid to flow through a physical resistance.
A temperature difference is needed for energy to flow, i.e. heat, through a thermal resistance.”
Are you sure, when a gravitational field is present?
But plainly it would not be this warm without this atmosphere.
Without the atmosphere, the Earth would have surface temperatures like on the Earth’s moon, so a lot warmer doing the day, and a lot colder doing the night.
It is up to 390 K (+117 C) and down to 95 K (-178 C) near the equator on the Moon.
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/moonfact.html
No, the pressure temperature gradient allows the Earth to retain some heat in the atmosphere..
Governed only by that gradient.
In the satellite record, the only warming has come form El Nino effects.
There is NO CO2 warming signal in the whole of the satellite record,
There is NO Co2 warming signature is the constant sea level trend.
There is NO CO2 warming signal ANYWHERE.
It just isn’t happening.
Even your beloved Arctic, which you care more about than you do about people freezing to death in Russia, shows no warming this century before the El Nino
Gotta link to the source of that data Andy?
It say what the source is, you moronic prat, UAH (v6)!!
Go and find it yourself, check the data for yourself
Oh wait.. that would require you to actually have the ability to do so.
Not going to happen is it, Jimbo.
Maybe a call to Phil Jones will help you. he’s meant to be an great Excel user..
Andy – According to http://www.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/docs/readme.msu:
Sectional definitions for uahncdc.XX files
Global -85 to +85 latitude
Hemispheric 0 to +/- 85 latitude
Extratropics +/- 20 to +/- 85 latitude
Polar +/- 60 to +/- 85 latitude
That’s a very big “North Pole hole”. At the risk of repeating myself:
“Gotta link to the source of [your UAH6 North Pole] data Andy?”
And you state you are faculty member at a University! ROFLMFAO!!!!
Here Jim Bob, let me help you, go to this site;
http://www.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/v6.0/tlt/uahncdc_lt_6.0.txt
Now scroll down to the bottom of the page. With me so far Jimbo, not going too quick for you am I?
At the bottom of the page, it states;
GL 90S-90N, NH 0-90N, SH 90S-0, TRPCS 20S-20N
NoExt 20N-90N, SoExt 90S-20S, NoPol 60N-90N, SoPol 90S-60S
Got that!
Jimbo caught out being just plain WRONG, yet again.
Can’t take a trick, can you Jimbo..
Maybe try another street corner… near Exeter Uni.
——————————————
Question 1 for Jimbo, the cowardly ignorant worm.
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
…. Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
Keep running and hiding, little worm.
Furthermore, the area above 85ºN is only 2.8% of the total area above 60ºN.
Only a mathematically illiterate moron like Jimbo would think that 2.8% is going to affect the ZERO TREND.
No doubt about you Jimbo, you desperately need those Exeter boyfriends to help you all the time, to stop you making more and more idiotic comments..
You should never be left to fend for yourself. !!
There are papers out there that show that the gravity/thermal effect calculated very closely for all planets with an atmosphere.
There is no room for the MYTH of CO2 warming in an open convective atmosphere.
Correct. The graphs from Robinson & Catling clearly demonstrate it is atmospheric mass and not composition driving the surface temperature.
Venus and Earth show the exact same temperature profile at similar pressures when adjusted for distance from the sun.
Thank you.
Now how to get this FACT past the set-in-slime manic brain-washing of the AGW shills/trolls that in habit the forums.
I’ve tried being nice, I’ve tried hammering it into their thick mushy craniums, I’ve tried yelling at them….. but they are totally resistant to any sort of real science.
Robinson and Catling model closely matches data for Titan’s atmosphere by Physicist, Peter Morcombe
(Contains links to paper)
Griff,
you still don’t/won’t understand.
You can not create energy out of nothing,therefore
the overall average temperature would be pretty much the same.
Without Atmosphere=The incoming sun rays will hit the planet with full impact,because there are no atoms/molecules/air to “slow” them down.
It would get much much hotter during the daytime and supercold at night because there are no atoms/molecules/air to slow down the exodus of this electromagnetic rays to space.
With atmosphere sunrays are slowed down and weakend
(and reflected by greenhouse gases called clouds) when entering earth and also when leaving earth.
Greenhouse gases are balancing /harmonising the temperature extremes.
Instead of eg. +150 degress at day and -150 degrees at night we get +10 degrees at day and – 10 degrees at night.
I still don’t get why people like you don’t start to ask themselves how such a ridicoulously low number
of 1/10000 man made co2 in our atmosphere can have such a huge impact on climate.(1/10000 is such a small trap that it can not have such a devastating impact as it can only trap a little bit more-that’s it.
And that’s the reason why alarmists has failed so many so miserably in predicting climate )
Especially as you live on a planet which is covered so much
with open uncontrolable much much stronger greenhouse gases(steam) that this planet is therefore called blue planet.
The fact that you are not afraid of the gaswater is simple-
they never told you to be afraid of.
And if you think:
“It is impossible that so many scientists can be liars”
Well,other very well educated smart college guys have proven time and time again that they collectivly lie as a group.
Our MSM journalists-
no matter which lie wall street/goverment has told to push the usa to war they parrot and repeat it.
At the risk of (repeating myself)^n, what about Arctic sea ice volume Tony?
How did they measure it?
At the risk of (repeating myself ) ^n²
Isn’t it great to see the Arctic recovering just a small amount to the more sensible levels of sea ice that were the norm before the LIA.
Or are you going to continue to be WILFULLY IGNORANT of Arctic history before 1979/
Are you going to continue being Climate Change Denier #1.
Certainly looks like your DECEITFUL LIES and WILFUL IGNORANCE are going to continue, doesn’t it Jimbo.
Andy
You should have a look at the link that I have posted below. It is an interesting plot dealing with sea ice extent from 1925 onwards.
You might also like to look at MASIE which shows that the area of ice as from 2006 has been reasonably stable. MASIE is considered more accurate but unfortunately it only goes back to 2006.
That is an interesting plot, Seen it before
But it is giving annual mean Arctic ocean sea ice.
I would love to know what regions it actually covers.
Any ideas?
ie needs a bit of work before we can do much comparison with current values
Richard – MASIE is not “considered more accurate”. Quite the contrary in actual fact:
http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2016/02/dmi-masie-and-the-sea-ice-index-an-interview-with-walt-meier/
See also:
A nice fabrication , Jimbo
LIES and FABRICATION and DENIAL of Arctic history is all you have
And here is a question I BET you will avoid…
Why is the current NATURAL recovery of Arctic sea ice a slight way towards pre-LIA norms any sort of an issue?
Waiting and watching you squirm your way out of answering that.. you are nothing but a tapeworm in a sewer.
Still waiting for Jimbo the clown to tell the TRUH about the Arctic.. JUST ONCE
Come on Jimbo , have the GUTS to say that Arctic sea ice levels were much lower than the first 3/4 of the Holocene, in fact often zero summer sea ice..
Waiting for Jimbo to get some small amount of courage..
But that will never happen will it Jimbo.
You have proven time and time again, that you are NOTHING but a COWARDLY LIAR.
Here, you go, I will tell a truth.
“Current levels are somewhat lower than the extreme highs of the late 1970’s” TRUTH…
YOUR TURN…
… time to overcome your cowardice, Jimbo.
MASIE says things are far more stable than you anomaly chart indicates.
Using “anomalies” to study an insignificant blip of time on Earth, and using this incredibly small set of numbers to understand an almost incomprehensible reality, is simply nonsense.
a·nom·a·ly əˈnäməlē/ noun
1. -something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.
1- There is no such thing as “normal” in climate or weather.
2- What exactly am I supposed to expect in the future, based upon the range of possibilities we see in the geologic record? Are the changes we see happening “extreme” in any way?
3- No.
So CAGW is murdering for an agenda.
Recovering?
I suggest you look at the February extent for 1979 versus February 2016 and 2017
Oh, you mean when ice was ‘at a record high’? What does ‘record high’ mean, griff? And how many polar bears were there during that record high? And for that matter, if it was a ‘record high’ WHAT was it recovering from, and how low was it before that ‘record high’?
Can you answer ANY of those questions?
No griff, the record high was during the LIA.. mind you 1979 wasn’t much behind it, an extreme high level, that is for sure.
Before the coldest period in 10,000 year the norm was a lot, lot lower than it is now.
Unfortunately, the RECOVERY toward the Holocene norm from the extreme highs of the LIA and the late 1970’s seems to have stalled, levelled out.
The massive benefits of reduced Arctic sea ice are huge for all those that live up in that region, but it just isn’t happening. :-(
Current levels are WAY HIGHER than the Holocene optimum….
… Or are you going to continue DENYING natural climate change ??
Ummm…..he’s a little busy putting a nail in your coffin…..you know, as in having a real job….that kind of stuff that you wouldn’t understand. I’m sure your scam was quite lucrative while it lasted…
In actual fact Tony’s busy searching for more some juicy Arctic cherries to pick.
Only person picking Arctic cherries is you , slimo.
A small AMO based drop since the extremes of 1979.
Totally ignoring the FACT that current levels are way above pre-LIA levels, because the global temperature is only a small amount above that coldest PERIOD IN 10,000 years.
Why do you continue to DENY NATURAL CLIMATE CHANGE Jimbo.??
Is it that you are way tooooo cowardly to admit the facts??
Would your boyfriends at Exeter Uni get upset if you ever told the full truth ??
Really Andy, is this sort of homophobic language the currency of civil debate?
The decline in arctic sea ice since 1979 is undoubtedly influenced by the AMO, but the AMO is insufficient on its own to produce the level of decline seen since 1979.
There are several good papers on this if you google for them…
WHAT civil debate?
This is the result of the Left’s idea of ‘Debate’ and ‘Protest’
You can on debate civilly with someone who is not a rampant liar and denies every big of real fact put in front of them.
Do you deny that Jimbo has boyfriends at Exeter Uni??
The AMO is well able to produce a small decline form an extreme nearly equal to that of the LIA.
Or are you going to continue to DENY climate change history.
I’m guessing you will, because that DENIAL is the only thing holding the AGW scam together in your feeble little mind.
There are MANY good papers showing that the first 3/4 of the Holocene had summer sea ice levels of basically zero, but you continue to ignore every one of them.
You are nothing but a LYING HYPOCRITE.. and I suspect you know that.
Why not debate these folks?
Andy, I am well aware of the papers you mention…
and they are not relevant to the present circumstances, because the cause of low sea ice levels at that point was unique to that time and is not influencing things now.
“Do you deny that Jimbo has boyfriends at Exeter Uni??”
I have no idea… what would it matter if he had?
BS.. you have never shown any awareness of anything griff.
… you just keep rolling those LIES of your fingertips, don’t you little fungus-ridden toe-nail cutting.
Exeter Uni is one of the biggest climate trough swilling centres on the whole planet.
They will do anything, tell any lie, make up any story, just to keep that swill coming.
You don’t really think the sewer con site is just Jimbo’s work do you..
How naïve of you.
The scammer’s back…..when you respond to every little whiff of criticism on a website not your own shows how fragile a little snowflake you are and how inconsequential yours is. Projecting on Tony merely weakens your lame arguments….hope that helps!
Is this a site about climate change? Or not?
so people interested in climate change should come here, shouldn’t they?
You are NOT interested in climate change, you are interested in trying to support the unsupportable AGW scam.
You categorically DENY anything before 1979.
New paper out
““In a new study, recently recovered Russian observations show an increase in sea ice from 1950 to 1975 as large as the subsequent decrease in sea ice observed from 1975 to 2005””
Supports the DOE graph.
The link to the AMO is very strong..
Many papers show Arctic was often summer ice free during the first 3/4 of the Holocene
You DENY these fact, REFUSE t admit to them and REFUSE to put the current drop into a historical perspective
Why do you DENY this Climate Change history.. because you know that it makes the current AGW scam look like a nothing more than natural cycle variability.
You are NOT here with an interest in climate change..
You are here PURELY as a very low level AGW shill.
Like one of these cherry’s Jim Bob?
BTW Jim Bob, that is the port of Pevek taken in January of this year. The port name should be familiar, as it’s where the 3 stranded ships are currently getting their power supply from.
BruceC,
Is it solar or wind turbine?
I do believe it’s diesel.
BTW toorightmate, the two cargo vessels, which aren’t stranded in ice in the Chaunskaya Bay, according to Jim Bob, were carrying supplies for an off-shore (floating) nuke power plant.
I’m well aware of where Pevek is Bruce.
I’m also well aware that for some strange reason at this time year Chaunskaya Bay does tend to be encrusted in sea ice!
What’s your point, and where are the links to your sources?
and where are the links to your sources?
Obviously not from the ‘fake news’ department you get your info from.
http://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/n0872-global-warming-icebreaker-marooned-by-thick-ice-connects-to-shore-power-supply/
http://www.rosmorport.com/news.html?id=4016
The ships are STUCK some 23 nautical miles away, aren’t they ?
If they are not stuck, why aren’t they at least heading to port in Pevek.
But they are stuck… VERY STUCK !!!
From the first link..
“The government sees the Arctic waters as a ‘global transport route’ offering the ‘most efficient’ way of transporting cargo between Europe and Asia.
”
MASSIVE BENEFITS if Arctic sea ice levels do drop closer to the pre-LIA minimums.
But they haven’t, and unfortunately, …
… they are not going to.
Some really big cherries to pick here Jim Bob.
Gees that ice must be pretty darn thick to risk taking small truck like that out on it.
So much sea ice…. and they are only at 70ºN
And so much light .
“Jim Hunt says:
February 24, 2017 at 8:20 am
In actual fact Tony’s busy searching for more some juicy Arctic cherries to pick.”
No! In actual fact Tony is busy at C-Pac addressing a crowd larger and far more informed than you could ever hope to. I suspect that before too long Tony will once again end up testifying before a Congressional committee or subcommittee presenting the evidence he has worked long and hard to develop to uncover the fraud.
Have you ever testified before Congress or some National government body in any country Jim?
Jim stayed at a Holiday Inn Express
After check-in he rushed to connect to the hotel’s wi-fi and typed “Do I need to say more?” under the first post he saw on Tony’s blog to get someone—anyone!—visit his white con blog.
Arctic history prior to 1979:
https://realclimatescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Screen-Shot-2017-02-14-at-6.12.59-AM-down.gif
Note that in 1959/60 the summer sea ice extent was about 5.7 million sq. Km, ie., very similar to the area seen in the period 2012 to 2015.
Even just looking at the recent past, there is nothing unusual happening today, and if you look at MASIE data there has been little change since 2006 (when MASIE started).
Here is the image:
Arctic Sea Ice 1920 to 1975
Gail
Thanks for sorting out the image.
You will note that both BruceC and myself have commented below on a recent study that was based upon observations by Russian Scientists and which concludes that the loss of sea ice was ongoing before 1950 and that there was a gain in sea ice between 1950 to 1975 and subsequent there was a loss of sea ice between 1975 to 2005.
Materially, the conclusion is that the loss of sea ice between 1975 to 2005 was about the same as the gain in sea ice extent between 1950 to 1975 such that in 2005 the ice extent was similar to that observed in 1950.
Richard,
I though the impact of your comment would be better if the image was included. So I was glad to help.
I am a visual sort of person and much prefer graphs to written text.
This oft posted graph is useless… it does not continue beyond 1975 on the same basis, nor does it define the ‘arctic ocean’.
Take note folks. Griff is now saying a 1985 study by the United States Department of Energy is crap.
Actually what Griffy is saying is she can not read a GRAPH.
Note to Griffy – The Axis are labelled so you CAN make comparisons to other graphs.
new paper out…
““In a new study, recently recovered Russian observations show an increase in sea ice from 1950 to 1975 as large as the subsequent decrease in sea ice observed from 1975 to 2005””
Obviously AMO cycle related…
History and REAL data continue to totally DESTROY the AGW scam…..
…. that is why the scammers and shills like Jimbo and griff HAVE TO DENY climate history.
This links to the detailed historical research on past arctic sea ice… it is a comprehensive set of information
https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-piecing-together-arctic-sea-ice-history-1850
The article on this research states:
“Most fundamentally of all, the new dataset allows us to answer the three questions we posed at the beginning of this article.
First, there is no point in the past 150 years where sea ice extent is as small as it has been in recent years. Second, the rate of sea ice retreat in recent years is also unprecedented in the historical record. And, third, the natural fluctuations in sea ice over multiple decades are generally smaller than the year-to-year variability.”
Griff, have a look at the below photo. It was taken on the 17th March 1959 …. AT THE NORTH POLE! Take note of the ice ‘thickness’!
Bruce – Any chance you can stop posting pictures without links to your sources?
Otherwise folks might get the impression that you’re spouting balderdash the whole time!
Jim, any chance you can start doing your own research? Takes less than 2 minutes on google.
Besides Jim Bob, what difference would it make if I supplied links to the articles? Both you and griff would go into full denial and say it’s ‘balderdash’ (your words).
All you have to do is look at the number on the sub and punch in “US Submarine 578” and you would find it is the USS Skate with it’s complete history. You would have also found out that prior to the 1959 visit the sub was the first to surface at the North Pole August 11th, 1958 and the picture would show that it surfaced in clear water. Thus a good visiual of how variable Ice coverage at the Artic can be at different times.
https://www.navalhistory.org/2011/08/11/uss-skate-ssn-578-becomes-the-first-submarine-to-surface-at-the-north-pole
Hey RAH,
Admiral Hunt has a point. I know from the past that people posted the Archimedes’ principle formula here without links to their sources. How was the Admiral supposed to know if it was right?
Yet the Christmas Turkey visits the Antarctic at the height of Summer (Dec, 2013) and manages to get not only HIS ship stuck in ice but TWO Ice breakers could not make it through the SUMMER sea ice….
The Aurora Australis abandoned rescue of the trapped Russian “research”vessel in the Antarctica and a second ship, the Chinese ship “Snow Dragon” has gave up on rescue too. They finally used a helicopter.
>>>>>>>>>>
And in July 22, 2015
“According to a Coast Guard officer, the icy conditions “are the “worst he’s seen in 20 years“
CCGS Amudsen was rerouted to Hudson Bay to help with heavy Ice. Arctic expedition to study global warming put on hold because of too much ice.
WHY with news like that you would think the earth was COOLING!
RAH – I’m well aware of what that picture shows. See for example:
http://GreatWhiteCon.info/tag/uss-skate/
You seem to have missed my point entirely?
Only point you are making is that you desperately want people to visit you in your sewer of a web site.
Poor lonely, pathetic Jimbo.
Jim Hunt
I already learned all I need to know about you and THAT’s the real point! I’ve been reading this blog and commenting here now for well over three years and figured your agenda out your line of BS long ago. When the ice extent at the Arctic pole expands again you’ll be nowhere around here to be found.
Not that I’m wishing for that because I believe a warmer world is a better world. Our limited knowledge of from where we human animals evolved from indicates that we emerged and primarily evolved in a warmer climate. Our history clearly indicates we as a species have thrived and developed best in warmer climates. Our planet is greening and our agricultural yields increasing yearly because of the increased CO2. Nothing! Not a single predicted catastrophe due to warming is occurring or even appearing to begin.
The reality is this politically created bugaboo is distracting attention from and robbing resources from so many real problems that people like you who promote it are either criminals or epically foolish IMO.
RAH,
Jimmy Boy ONLY appears when the arctic is discussed and never when anything else is discussed.
Actually I am surprised he is on this article. It indicates just how worried the Globalist Elite are becoming as their scam loses supporters by the truck load.
That Jimmy Boy is a typical human hating Progressive is pretty much a given by now. He has had too much information tossed at him and LIED too often to be anything else.
CW
I guess I just get very very tired of the BS sometimes. Been watching some of the MSM “coverage” and “commentary” of CPAC and it’s got my dander up a bit. They treat the whole thing just like they have climate change. Lies, lies by omission, lies by headlines, lies by commentators, lies by any means possible based on earlier lies. Sometimes it becomes impossible to laugh it off.
At times like this I sometimes begin to think it’s time to pick up the black rifle and pistol and go to war. I’m very tired of the left relying on their oppositions civility and desire to abide by the law to get away with their own incivility and lawlessness.
The 4th Circuit just this week ruled 10 to 4 that Maryland’s Assault Weapons ban is Constitutional by making up law in direct contravention to the SCOTUS Heller case.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/joannaallhands/2017/02/22/circuit-court-assault-weapons-ban/98256154/
The Justices, just like those of the 9th recently, did not even attempt to follow or consider established law but just made up their own new “law” based in contravention of any legal president to arrive at the decision that agreed with their own political/social opinions. That isn’t law. It’s despotism and I’m just plain fed up with it.
I believe many of them have been able to get away with it for so long they no longer understand the real world around them. It would not be the first time or last time in history.
RAH,
That is the whole idea.
The left has completely abandoned Rule of Law and the Constitution. They are doing their damnedest to push us into rebellion/Constitutional Crisis and I am sure that the United Nations/EU/Canada is hovering, ready to jump in to take care of the ‘crisis’ and implement THEIR new Constitution.
Soros is really really good at toppling governments.
Kate – “These aren’t “protests” — this is the left advancing its political agenda through the threat of mob violence, and governments have been far too slow to react. But then again — as key actors in government and media view these mobs as ideological fellow travellers (they share the same donors) they’ve been content to stand down, and allow the intimidation tactics work to their perceived political advantage.”
Unfortunately it was American dollars and the US Federal Reserve behind the Bolsheviks. In 1913 the European bankers saddled Americans with the Federal Reserve then took our gold and gave it to Trotsky so he could foment the Russian revolution a few years later. The purpose of that revolution was to overthrow the new government that was patterning itself after the US government which tells you just how much the elite hate our form of government.
Congressman McFadden on the Federal Reserve Corporation Remarks in Congress, 1934 just prior to his assassination
Gail Combs says:
February 24, 2017 at 10:42 pm
RAH,
That is the whole idea.
The left has completely abandoned Rule of Law and the Constitution. They are doing their damnedest to push us into rebellion/Constitutional Crisis and I am sure that the United Nations/EU/Canada is hovering, ready to jump in to take care of the ‘crisis’ and implement THEIR new Constitution.
Soros is really really good at toppling governments.
———————————————–
Soros has not come up against a people like us who will protect their law and form of government and are armed and ready to do so if need be. That is why the left has tried so desperately to disarm the people.
The kind of POTUS Trump is:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/24/trump-took-future-green-berets-oval-office/
BTW that is a stock photo because the article states it was officers that were there but the pic shows troops with SF crests on their flashes and not officer rank, meaning they are enlisted. Flash colors denote Group or other unit assignments such as command, psyops, or training/school units. Of those shown, Green is 10th SFG(A), Black is 5th SFG(A), Red is 7th SFG(A), and Yellow is 1st SFG(A). The only AD group not represented in the photo is the 3rd SFG(A).
Noticed today while in the Grocery store a History Channel mag that was about Special Ops. Flipping through it I noticed it was all about Navy Seals and not a mention of any other Special Ops units. Not surprised and in fact satisfied I put it back in the rack. That’s the way we want it.
No, he has not. Hungary just “liberalized” their gun ownership laws.
Hungary to have looser gun control laws
By Adrienn Sain | May 13, 2016
The workers of the organizations that belong to the Ministry of Interior might have an easier access to self-defense guns, magyaridok.hu writes.
According to a new law, employees could keep their guns, even if they are not on duty; this would apply to employees of the police force, the National Protective Service (NVSz), and the Constitution Protection Office (AH).
Magyaridok.hu is referring to a letter signed by State Secretary for Law Enforcement László Tasnádi, which says that the Ministry is currently trying to estimate whether workers would like to have access to self-defense guns off duty. Heads of the organizations are asked to take sides and name those who should have access to their weapons off duty. Suggestions were expected to be made until May 11. So far, the Ministry of Interior did not support any laws that advocated looser self-defense gun laws; Tasnádi also mentioned this in his letter, saying that the initial aim was to extend the use of service guns off duty.
…
The Secretary of State also emphasized that the matter needs thorough investigation and the number of people who have access to self-defense guns off duty should be kept as low as possible.
…
This may not be the best time to promote looser gun control laws, as it was only three months ago, in February 2016, that a policewoman in District XVIII. killed her child and then committed suicide, using her service gun.
…
http://dailynewshungary.com/hungary-to-have-looser-gun-control-laws
Things are easier where Soros comes from.
No, he has not refers to RAH’s previous post on Soros.
A.F. Branco has an appropriate cartoon…
So the USS Skate surfaces at the North Pole on the 17th March 1959 when the sea ice should have been INCREASING in thickness. And finds the ice less than two feet thick unlike today.
Gail (and Bruce, and Andy, and RAH),
How much sunlight do you suppose impinges upon the North Pole on March 17th, in 1959 or any other year?
Here’s a clue for you:
You did not READ Jimmy Boy…
MORE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv9NxOrKDow
So? We all know that the insolation would be much less in March as compared to August. What’s your point? Fact is that submarines choose where they will surface and if they can find open water in the area they wish to do so they will surface there. They will also surface through the thinnest ice they can find if there isn’t open water.
Meet Admiral Hunt, an accomplished sidestep dancer …
BTW Griff, the ice that has currently grounded the 3 vessels in Chaunskaya Bay (which Jimbo says is ‘balderdash’) is currently around 2.5-3.0m thick!
Ms Griff hates poor brown people, and thinks the Earth is only 150 years old.
This is concerning…
http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/23/ivanka-jared-intervened-to-strip-language-critical-of-the-paris-climate-accords-out-of-an-executive-order/
First Trump DOES NOT have his cabinet picks confirmed yet so he can not afford to turn off too many Senators at this point. Given a Republican Senate and House this is clear evidence of the ‘Uni-party’ working against the will of the American people. No other president has had to wait this long for confirmation of his cabinet. Citigroup Chose Obama’s 2008 Cabinet** which were then rapidly confirmed.
Second Trump is aware that he has TRAITORS leaking his every move and is trying to smoke them out.
The Wall Street Gerbil is owned by Aussie Murdoch and Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal. So WSJ is not exactly America friendly.
Rupert Murdoch is co-chair of one of the most powerful immigration lobbying firms in country, the open borders group, the Partnership for a New American Economy. Murdoch has also stated: “We need to do away with the cap on H-1B visas, which is arbitrary and results in U.S. companies struggling to find the high-skill workers they need to continue growing. “
AND who owns City Group??? Why the SAME Saudi Prince! One of the largest shareholders in Citigroup… He also owns large chunks of eBay, Twitter, Apple and Disney.
http://stepfeed.com/8-companies-you-didn-t-know-prince-alwaleed-bin-talal-invested-in-6595
Amazing how the same names keep showing up over and over….
Trump promised to dump the Paris agreement. He has his EPA pick in place, and that is who he should be taking advice from – not his unelected daughter. If Trump goes wobbly on this, he will lose support.
How can one person (his daughter) be allowed to trash such a popular campaign promise? Get her out of the White House; she clearly has too much influence over Trump.
Pops,
I did not make myself clear.
To put it bluntly the Wall Street Journal is THE ENEMY. WHAT actual facts do you have that anything the WSJ said was true? We already know the US MSM deliberately practices Psych-Ops. This is why Trump constantly calls the media out on their FAKE NEWS.
Trump is going up against the entrenched Globalists. The ONLY support he has is, we,the American Voters so the Globalists will do ANYTHING and I do mean ANYTHING to shake our support for Trump. And once they have done that they WILL take him out.
There are trillions of dollars at stake. Trillions. Those who hold power will never relinquish power; a simple and timeless truth. The current attacks…
The idea is to divide and conquer. Peck away at ANYTHING that can peal away some of Trump’s supporters.
AND YOU ARE HELPING THEM!
“Anyone that is willing to stand next to me and fight the progressive left, I will be in that bunker. And if you’re Not in that bunker because you’re not satisfied with this candidate, more than shame on you — You’re on the other side!” — Andrew Breitbart
Let me make myself clear.
It is a question of holding politicians accountable for their promises. Now, I wonder where I’ve heard that before….
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/02/23/steve-bannon-at-cpac-hold-us-accountable-for-what-we-promised/
Okay, this particular story might not be true, but it’s all over the news now, so Trump is getting plenty of feedback about how his supporters feel about such a flip-flop.
“How can one person … be allowed …”
Well, that’s actually not a bad question but in a much broader sense than you asked it. It was not supposed to be that way, not as originally written in the Constitution. What business does the federal government have in pretending to manage global climate? And what about Congress, is there not more than one person of influence?
Somehow in history, in the end it always comes down to the Good King’s evil advisors. If the Good King just knew what the people wanted …
Seems one of the leakers has now been caught.
REPORT: White House Deputy Chief of Staff and #NeverTrumper Source of LEAKS
“The president and his allies have been deliberately feeding her fake information in order to find her network,” says a source close to the president’s family. “It’s been going well.”…
What they could have done is feed essentially the same story to different people privately. But in each story there is a significant detail that differs. Thus when the story gets printed the specific detail gives away the source.
In Tom Clancy novels they say the Ryan invented that technique and call it “the canary trap”. But in reality it is a technique that was used by the British to ferret out French spies during the Napoleonic wars and probably dates back further than that.
Pops,
You might want to read this:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/22/delingpole-nasa-lose-role-green-propagandist-shock/
(Tony is mentioned and one of his graphs featured.)
This doesn’t look good for Jim Bob and Griffy;
Russian scientists say the air temperature in the Arctic may low not earlier than 2020. Over the past ten years, the Arctic area became warmer by an average of three degrees, expert of the Antarctic Research Institute Valery Karklin told TASS on Feb. 21.
“Our forecast is that in the early 2020 the temperature in the Arctic will go lower and will continue getting lower to the 2030-2040s.,” he said. “Thus, ice in the Arctic seas will be bigger and the heavy ice conditions will get more often.”
“In the recent ten years, due to the warming, the anomalous air temperatures int eh Arctic area (north of 70th latitude) were between 1.7-4 degrees, which means the Arctic area has become warmer by three degrees,” he said.
The research institute’s studies show the warming is a part of the cyclic climate changes, with the period of about 60 years. Noteworthy, the warming is due to natural factors, not anthropogenic, the scientists said.
“Various literature sources say the air temperature in the northern hemisphere since 1998 has stabilized and begins going down,” the expert said. “In the Arctic, this process has not begun yet.”
http://rbth.com/news/2017/02/21/russian-scientists-forecast-lower-temperatures-in-arctic-after-2020-only_707011
The ignorant have always sacrificed humans over weather.
There is a post about this on Phys.Org. See:
https://phys.org/news/2017-02-air-pollution-masked-mid-20th-century.html
They note:
I have mentioned this a number of times that today’s sea ice extent is broadly similar to that seen in the 1940s/1950s. there is no reason to get unduly concerned.
And after 2005, especially from 2007, sea ice declined sharply again.
Sea ice is now lower than it was at the low point of the last cycle, around 1943, by a considerable margin.
Yes griff.
Lovely picture!
T’is a lovely pic isn’t griff ….. especially when your mate Jimbo reckons it’s not even there.
NO . sea ice levels are now more than 2006
You are LYING again , griff.
Average Arctic sea ice last 10 years
You are LYING yet again, griff.
Making up LIES as you go along.
What is more Arctic Sea Ice does not peak until sometime around the end of April beginning of May, so it has another couple of months to increase.
Dear Andy,
Arctic sea ice volume. Again.
Dear Genocide Jim,
another 21,000 humans needlessly starved to death, again yesterday.
CAGWBS is responsible for more deaths than Pol Pot, Stalin, and Mao combined. And still counting corpses hourly.
Poor Jimbo, DENIER of climate change
…. did you know there is a new paper out
“In a new study, recently recovered Russian observations show an increase in sea ice from 1950 to 1975 as large as the subsequent decrease in sea ice observed from 1975 to 2005”
Oh dear. seems the middle of last century was as low as now, but we already knew that from DOE data
And I knew you would avoid answering a question I asked earlier, because you are a coward.
Question for Jimbo the clown…
Even if the Arctic sea ice does drop back a lot further towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
We all know that for most of the first 3/4 of the Holocene Arctic sea ice levels were much lower than now.. so why is a RECOVERY to those levels a problem?
so the DOE graph now substantiated by Russian data
Arctic sea ice extent around 1950 were same as now..
Your little CON is collapsing around your sewer, Jimbo
The only way you can keep it alive in your own mind is by totally DENYING all Arctic sea ice history before 1979.
You are undoubtedly CLIMATE CHANGE DENIER #1
Need I say more?
Old news, Jimbo. Those fabrications have been proven wrong by recently found data.
Recently found DOe and Russian data show a step climb from 1950 – mid 1970’s
IGNORE the truth as usual, go with the fabrication.. Jimbo liar way.
And what is that, another nameless un-cited graph, could be any sort of fabrication.. if you are posting it, you can BET its nothing but propaganda fabrication.
And STILL you ignore simple questions.
Question 1 for Jimbo, the Exeter Uni arse-licker..
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
You have ignored Arctic climate history and DENIED facts for long enough.
Time for you to admit the truth about Arctic climate history.
But we all know you don’t have the COURAGE to go against the wishes of your Exeter Uni boyfriends, do you Jimbo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
That seems at odds with his recent pronouncements:
http://arctic.ru/climate/20170222/561878.html
“The overall Arctic sea ice extent has shrunk by 40 percent in 10 years, TASS news agency cited Valery Karklin, leading researcher at the Arctic and Antarctic Research Institute (AARI), as saying.
“On average, over the summer months (July, August and September) of 2005-2015, the total ice cover in the Arctic seas, including the Kara, Laptev, East Siberian and Chukchi seas, has declined by 40 percent or 547,000 square kilometers,” Karklin said. He added that the numbers for 2016 will be released later.
He said ice conditions in the Arctic seas had formed over those years in the context of lasting climate warming. “Over the 10-year period, summer ice conditions throughout the Arctic seas that the Northern Sea Route crosses were mild. They were characterized by early ice melting, intensive sea ice clearing and reduced ice thickness,” Karklin explained.
The researcher added that based on information from polar stations, throughout the winter period of 2005-2015 the thickness of fast (immovable) ice shrank by 10-40 centimeters to about 20 centimeters or 15 percent of the perennial norm.
“In summer, the thickness of drifting ice in the Arctic seas declines by 120-140 centimeters due to the melting, as compared to the average longstanding norm of 80-100 centimeters. As we can see, the ice has got 40 centimeters thinner.”
Note the ‘lasting climate warming’ bit.
So he has changed his mind within one day griff?
Can you point to me where he states ‘global warming, climate change or CO2 is the cause’.
The research institute’s studies show the warming is a part of the cyclic climate changes, with the period of about 60 years. Noteworthy, the warming is due to natural factors, not anthropogenic
Valery Karklin
What part of “Noteworthy, the warming is due to natural factors, not anthropogenic” do you not understand?
What part of ‘ in the context of lasting climate warming’ are you missing?
What part of “cyclic climate changes, with the period of about 60 years.” Are you missing???
Or the WELL KNOWN 200 year cycle.
NASA Finds Sun-Climate Connection in Old Nile Records
Peer-reviewed PAPERS:
Is solar variability reflected in the Nile River?
The influence of the de Vries (∼ 200-year) solar cycle on climate variations: Results from the Central Asian Mountains and their global link
Coming out of the LIA, what would you expect ;)
Go buy another box of crayons, looks like you need them.
Climate Change ‘Lunacy’ Called a Gift to Conservatives
Joining Delingpole were Steve Milloy, a lawyer and author who founded the website JunkScience.com, and Tony Heller, who has written under the pseudonym Steven Goddard at the blog Real Science, which he founded. John Fund, a columnist for National Review, acted as moderator.
Griff is in denial that the climate can change naturally and not all climate variations are anthropogenic in nature. Griff has no knowledge of ice ages & continental glaciation. Griff also has trouble with the climate / weather thingy.
Don’t single out griff, Jim Hunt is the same – if not worse. No matter how many photos or links you produce, Jim will deny there is currently 3 vessels grounded in the Chaunskaya Bay (off the port of Pevek).
These people live in a ‘fake world’. They have absolutely NFI about the ‘real world’.
Gotta few links to your sources Bruce?
Or not?
Links and pictures have been given
But you just ignore that .. because you like being IGNORANT.
It is you reason for existing, to see how moronically ignorant you can show yourself to be.
I see numerous unsourced pictures from Bruce.
From his Rosmorport link, in slightly stilted English:
The Kapitan Dranitsyn icebreaker and the Sinegorsk and Iogann Makhmastal dry cargo ships will stay for the winter on Chukotka. The situation is not extraordinary.
Q.E.D?
But if there really were record low levels of arctic sea ice for this time of year, then why would these boats have to stay there for the winter? Maybe the levels of sea ice are not quite as low as some would have us to believe.
We see only unsourced links from you.
Only link you seem able to post is to your sewer-type web site.
That is NOT a source.
It is a site run by the worlds №1 Climate Change Denier and con-artist… and is thus totally untrustworthy, being absolutely chock of bias and LIES of omission.
FACT…. These vessels are STUCK , attached by umbilical cords…. Not going anywhere until the ice starts to thin later this year. May maybe.
Be we all know your one trait is the DENIAL of facts.
Andy,
From Bruce’s Rosmorport link:
As a rule, navigation in the seaport of Pevek finishes in November. But to make supplies of construction materials regular a decision has been taken to extend the navigation till January.
Capiche?
Its now February
So, they are stuck near Pevek until May.
Thanks for the confirmation, little drone.
Jimbo, In case you missed the question above…
Question for Jimbo the clown…
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
I can see ONLY HUGE BENEFITS coming from lower Arctic sea ice, especially for those living up in that region.
Unfortunately , because of the extreme high levels at the AMO low point in the late 1970,
we seem to have bottomed out way higher than the pre-LIA norm, and as the AMO starts to dip down again, we will unfortunately see an increase in Arctic sea ice.
Jim Bob conveniently left out these other facts stated in the Rosmorport statement – dated 24th January 2017;
“Due to the severe conditions in the Arctic region the Kapitan Dranitsyn icebreaker and the Sinegorsk and Iogann Makhmastal dry cargo ships will stay for the winter on Chukotka”
and;
“The FSUE “Rosmorport” icebreakers could pass the heavy ice on their own, but under such conditions the escort of two ballast vessels, the ice class of which corresponded to Arc 5, related to significant risks of serious damage to vessels and to health of crews and the environment.”
and;
“The FSUE “Rosmorport” icebreakers’ attempts to map a route for unobstructed passage of the Iogann Makhmastal and the Sinegorsk in the heavy ice have failed. By assessing the situation objectively, a decision has been taken to place both dry cargo ships in direct proximity of the seaport of Pevek for the entire ice season before the start of summer/autumn arctic navigation, approximately till the end of May and the beginning of June 2017″
Keep on denying the FACTS Jim Bob, Miriam O’Brien (aka Sou), must be so proud of you.
Capiche?
At the risk of repeating myself repeating Rosmorport Bruce:
“As a rule, navigation in the seaport of Pevek finishes in November. The situation is not extraordinary.”
Do you intend to keep on spouting balderdash ad infinitum?
And just like the ‘Xmas Turkey’ Antarctic expedition a couple of years ago, “they have become stuck in there own experiment”
Love the way Mother Nature keeps on rubbing your faces in your own pooh. :)
Here’s another ‘food for thought’ Jim Bob. Up until a handful of years ago, an Arc5 class of cargo/cruise ship was the highest level. The Russians have now updated this list to Arc9 WHICH DOES NOT INCLUDE ICEBREAKERS!
Now if the sea ice is thinning, as you tell us, why on earth have the Russian’s added 4 extra classes to their ice classifications? Also, why are the Russians spending millions on building bigger and more powerful nuke powered ice breakers? (they already have the biggest and most powerful ice breakers on the planet as it is!)
Hey Bruce. Quit making so much sense. You know that destroys Jims suppositions, don’t you.
Bruce – When you’re in a hole it’s generally recommended that you stop digging.
Since you seem keen on reports in The Siberian Times, here’s a link of mine:
http://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/n0847-icebreakers-make-historic-arctic-voyage-then-get-stuck-in-frozen-sea-on-return-journey/
Bulk carriers Sinegorsk and Johann Mahmastal made a successful midwinter cargo crossing from Arkhangelsk to Russia’s northernmost port of Pevek, Chukotka, escorted by icebreakers Kapitan Dranitsyn and Admiral Makarov.
It was the first such crossing since Soviet times, and the ships delivered supplies for the world’s first floating heat and power plant to be assembled in Chukotka after a journey lasting from 14 December to 7 January.
The ease of the sailing is seen as a sign that climate warming in the Arctic can open up shopping lanes even in midwinter.
The emphasis is mine. The Northern Sea Route for dummies:
1) As a rule, navigation in the seaport of Pevek finishes in November.
2) The ships delivered supplies… on 7 January.
Capiche?
And where are these ships NOW Jim Bob?
I’ll tell you where, they are stuck in their own experiment!
BTW Jim Bob, that link of mine has been posted here several times by both me and AndyG ;)
What was that you were saying about holes?
Bruce – Are you hard of hearing?
The ease of the sailing is seen as a sign that climate warming in the Arctic can open up shopping lanes even in midwinter.
Yep, certainly looks like The ease of the sailing is seen as a sign that climate warming in the Arctic can open up shopping lanes even in midwinter.
Jimbo, that “ease of sailing” thought-bubble has been proven stupidly WRONG
They are STUCK…… capeeeeesh !!!
End of story !!
According to Jim Bob, this is a “open shipping lane, even in midwinter!
Jim Bob, do you have a reading problem? Or do you suffer from dementia?
“By assessing the situation objectively, a decision has been taken to place both dry cargo ships in direct proximity of the seaport of Pevek for the entire ice season before the start of summer/autumn arctic navigation, approximately till the end of May and the beginning of June 2017″
Bruce – Are you dumb as well as deaf?
I was quoting The Siberian Times. This is from their February 10th article:
The failure of the return voyage is not surprising given the time of year.
Do you believe everything you read in The Siberian Times?
Or not?
Wrong place first time…
So Jimbo, you utter and complete MORON..
Failure not surprising given the time of year
They are STUCK in SEA ICE……. until May or June….
admit it, or yet again PROVE you are an illiterate, non-comprehending IDIOT !!!
CAPEEEEEEShhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!
You’re obviously deaf, dumb and blind too Andy.
Here’s what I said yesterday:
https://realclimatescience.com/2017/02/the-global-warming-scam-goes-super-cold-today/#comment-42068
I’m also well aware that for some strange reason at this time year Chaunskaya Bay does tend to be encrusted in sea ice!
What’s your point?
3 vessels stuck near Pevek until May-June
Facts were never you stroing suit were that Jimbo
DENY, DENY, DENY
Question 1 for Jimbo, the Exeter Uni arse-licker..
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
Like I said Andy:
What’s your point?
That’s par for the course for bulk carriers, since the first 3/4 of Holocene of course!
Par for the course.. Ok , so no reduction in sea ice extent
Ships stuck in sea ice that they hoped wasn’t there BUT IS.
Gees its a pity that Arctic sea ice levels aren’t a LOT lower, isn’t it Jimbo
The BENEFITS would be enormous, wouldn’t they Jimbo.
Still SQIRMING and AVOID answering simple questions , hey Jimbo
What a base-level COWARD you really are.
Question 1 for Jimbo, the Exeter Uni arse-licker..
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
“since the first 3/4 of Holocene of course!”
Yep the EXTREEM sea ice levels of the LIA and the late 1970’s have made it very difficult for commercial transport up there..
wouldn’t you agree, Jimbo
Or would you continue to runn away from answering that simple question.
Everybody can see you dodging and squirming like a sewer eel..
Question 1 for Jimbo, the Exeter Uni arse-licker..
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
Come on Jimbo, you cowardly little worm.
Unanswered questions for Andy et al.
1) What was the population of homo sapiens sapiens in coastal cities during the first 3/4 of the Holocene?
2) What was the maximum sea level during the first 3/4 of the Holocene, relative to the first years of the Anthropocene?
Genocide Jim is more interested in circular arguments about meaningless ice than he is about fellow human suffering and death.
What would Genocide Jim do if it was his family being starved to death by political activists?
Would he choose ice over immediate family? Maybe, if it meant visitors to his pathetic genocidal website.
“Akademic Lomonosov floating nuclear power plant. ”
Pity they didn’t have this technology for Fukishima. :-)
Here’s a YouTube of Tony’s CPAC presentation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_PCSiKOS_s
Thank you!
Hubby is not here so I can grab his computer and watch.
Several other websites are linking to this blog post to see the slides tony presented at cpac, but this blog post does not have those slides. The video is great, though, and it does capture the slides presented.
I put it on this post because it’s the latest and for no other reason. I know Tony has put up some posts that are good summaries of most of what he’s done done, but I haven’t saved the URL’s for those and it would have taken a good while to find.
I linked to them near the top.
The slides:
https://realclimatescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Olympia-Washington-February-7-2017-3.pdf
They are from his Washington State presentation
Video of that presentation is here:
https://realclimatescience.com/2017/02/my-washington-state-senate-presentation/
For the astonishingly ignorant amongst you, here’s an actual photograph of Skate at the North Pole in March 1959. Note the use of flares for lighting. Feel free to Google it.
So this justifies starving millions annually?
Love the way that one flare is lighting up everyone the same. even the guys at the back left.
Guy under the 7 seems to be reading even though he is on the far side of the guy holding the flare.
Hey Andy, did you notice Hollywood production movies where an actor strikes a match and suddenly the whole room is well lit all the way to the far corners?
That’s the world of Jim Hunt. All fake.
It was not dark when the pic was taken, so the overall illumination is one of bright twilight. The person holiding the light source is conspicuoisly brighter, but that may not be a flare. It could be an electrically-triggered photographic flash. See the dark line going to the foot of that person? I think that is the flash control circuit.
Steven,
A quote from Commander James Francis Calvert for you:
For illumination two sailors were holding railroad flares
Look at the shadows Jimbo.
Use what little intelligence you have.
Poor Jimbo, can’t take a trick can, you little weasel.
Its your own brain-washed ignorance that puts you always leaning over in front of the Exeter Uni boys.
I hope they appreciate the ignorance you put forward on their behalf.
Of course it was not dark. The flare/flash was for a picture taken by another camera with different film/lens.
— I have a Nikon lens that allowed me to take hand-held photos of the Sistine Chapel ceiling WITHOUT flash back in the mid 1970s. I had several people ask me about the lens and film. It was a Nikon f/1.2 and 400ASA film that could be ‘pushed’ to 800ASA. —
A Tedious Explanation of the f/stop
Moon.
So I guess that means that Jim admits that the submarine Skate, WAS there at that time and that the ice then WAS thin enough for them to surface.
Amazing that the ice would be thin enough at the North Pole in March of 1959 for such ancient technology to manage to surface safely.
Good going Jim. You have helped prove the point that you are reluctant to admit.
Neal,
A quote from Commander James Francis Calvert for you:
Climbing to the bridge, I was greeted by an awesome sight. Skate was in a small lead completely surrounded by 10-foot-high hummocks of ice. This was the most inhospitable terrain we had seen so far. It was almost dark, the sky was heavily overcast, and the 25 knot wind was blowing the snow so heavily that visibility was cut down to 500 yards. The temperature was 24° below.
And a quote from the link that Lattitude provided below
“The ice was 3-5 ft thick on average. We tried to break through the ice as many times as possible to find our limits. 5 feet was the maximum we could manage at the time. If the ice was too thick, we would bounce off like a Ping-Pong ball.”
Interview with Bruce Tavey, and the first submarine to surface on the North Pole.
Bruce Tavey was a crewmember of the first submarine to surface at the North Pole in 1959, the USSN Skate, SSN 578, as Chief Reactor Operator.
http://www.artarctica.com/2015/05/04/the-first-submarine-to-surface-at-the-north-pole-an-interview-with-chief-reactor-operator-bruce-tavey/
Jim, they used camera light meters to measure the thickness of the ice above them……
For the astonishingly ignorant amongst you….you need light to do that
..and they played a “around the world” softball game while they were there
Latitude – So you maintain that Bruce’s 3:30 pm picture was taken at the North Pole on March 17th 1959, whereas my 7:20 pm picture was not?
no wonder you’re so F’ed up…
They didn’t need flares to spread the ashes…
…there was plenty of dawn light
You do know why they were there right?
Doesn’t matter what time of day or night it is…
…the light stays the same
For the astonishingly ignorant amongst you…………..this planet is round
You haven’t answered my question Latitude.
Please do so.
Because your question has nothing to do with anything I posted……moron
Now try to focus….
You posted > “Note the use of flares for lighting”
..and everything I posted had to do with lighting
No wonder you’re so F’ed up……..
..and what in hell does your “question” have to do with anything in the first place?
You haven’t answered my question either Jimbo.
Question for Jimbo the sewer-clown…
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Another question for Jimbo…
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
Come on Jimbo, have the GUTS to answer.
I didn’t know trolls came with a bright yellow streak down their back. !!
Latitude – So you still maintain that Bruce’s 3:30 pm picture was taken at the North Pole on March 17th 1959?
Still SQIRMING and AVOID answering simple questions , hey Jimbo
What a base-level COWARD you really are.
Question 1 for Jimbo, the Exeter Uni arse-licker..
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
ok Jim…no one is that stupid to make up a question that has nothing to do with what I said.
…and then totally ignore what was said
You’re gaming….that’s trolling
Jimbo, go tell the US Navy they are a pack of liars.
http://navylive.dodlive.mil/2015/03/16/navyinnovates-arctic-operations-with-uss-skate-ssn-578/
They didn’t do it just once Jimbo, but they done it nine times.
Rising vertically, Skate slammed into the ice and smashed its way through – the first submarine to ever accomplish this. Then, for good measure, the crew, along with a small team of civilian scientists, did it nine more times before returning home.
Sorry, that should be TEN TIMES!
Come on you squirmly little COWARD
Question 1 for Jimbo, the Exeter Uni arse-licker..
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
“Note the use of flares for lighting. Feel free to Google it.”
The Skate surfaced on March 17..
Dawn at the North Pole starts the first of March, with actual sun rise on March 21.
For the astonishingly ignorant amongst you…………..
Jim Hunt is an exceptional polar expert and climate warrior. Never giving up. Never tired of losing.
He is truly amazing…..
Only in his own mirror. !!
Darn it AndyG,
It’s dinner time, I just made home made spaghetti sauce and now you have ruined my appetite…
oops ;-)
214 comments must be a record.
Well done Tony ! People talking about the ice I’m all for, even if I disagree from time to time.
Andy
Can’t talk about the slightly slow formation of sea ice this year, without talking about flip-side of the Jet Stream WEATHER event, can we.
(much as Jimbo and griff would like to ignore the extra deaths from cold but panic about a minor temporary drop in Arctic sea ice that if anything , would be BENEFICIAL)
The horrendous cold that was locked over northern Russia is that flip side, causing deaths and hardship.
Do you condone the AGW worriers being IGNORANT of this… ?
Do you condone them IGNORING all past history of Arctic sea ice, like the lows in the 1950s and the much lower, often zero summer extent in the first 3/4 of the Holocene.
Are you going to put a claim in as a Climate Change DENIER , like Jimbo and griff ?
I am still puzzled that you believe to comment on arctic sea ice you have to assume a moral responsibility for people dying in cold weather…
This emotional hype has nothing to do with the facts… the observed facts about the state of the ice.
Even the 1940s were not this low. The first half of the holocene is utterly irrelevant.
” The first half of the holocene is utterly irrelevant.”
Not really…
Temp history shows tics going up and down…
We could just be in a up tic…and has nothing to do with CO2
You do not understand Bro,
” The first half of the holocene is utterly irrelevant.” BECAUSE the goal is the enslavement of the entire world by the globalist elite.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” ~ H. L. Mencken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
One of the elite, French socialist and former WTO Director-General Pascal Lamy, even stated such.
After the Soviet Union Hobgoblin collapsed the Elite were desperate for another Hobgoblin
“approach to international relations that questioned the Westphalian, sacrosanct principle of sovereignty” is in plain language, nations are sovereign and NOT vassal states of the United Nations.
The UK for example IS a vassal state of the EU. “Thanks to the primacy of EU law over national law. Thanks to the work of the European Court of Justice in ensuring enforcement and respect for the rule of law. And thanks to a clear articulation between the Commission, the Parliament, and the European Court of Justice.” — Pascal Lamy (He should know as he was high up in the EU before moving to the WTO.)
Lamy took ‘Practical Politics’ the next step, by telling us what the “new enemy to unite us” is that is needed to create Legitimacy, one of the“three legs” needed to implement a global government…
There sure as heck is no greater threat for uniting citizens together then the threat of ‘catastrophic climate change’ and a world wide financial mess threatening their jobs is there?
And of course the citizens are given a ‘greater say’ through NGOs that just happen to be completely non-democratic. The new method of governance is the NGO-government partnerships where voters and individuals get completely cut out of the system. ( link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12134-000-1012-6#page-1 )
Strong’s early work with YMCA international “…may have been the genesis of Strong’s realization that NGOs (non-government organizations) provide an excellent way to use NGOs to couple the money from philanthropists and business with the objectives of government.” (sovereigntyDOTnet/p/sd/strong.html )
So the evidence shows Jimmy Boy and Griffy are Totalitarian Wanna-bes…. Or Useful Idiots.
thanks Sis…and you’re 100% right!
Now now. You guys know that leftist twits have never been big on history. If they were they wouldn’t be leftists twits!
Snicker…
RAH,
A conversation you might be interested in between EM Smith and Larry Ledwick starts HERE.
Now, now, RAH. Leftist twits love history. You make it sound like they are ignorant or something.
The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.
—Ronald Reagan
CW
lol. Though it really isn’t funny. All one has to do is read a US History book intended for the HS level to understand why we have leftist twits.
Misinformation is far worse than no information. Thank God I was around to teach my kids and my first Granddaughter history and hopefully I’ll be around long enough to teach the Bug our nations history also.
but just incase I’m not I have just ordered this:
https://www.amazon.com/Further-Adventures-Rush-Revere-Star-Spangled/dp/1501158368/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488049520&sr=8-1&keywords=rush+revere+book+series
Once I receive them I will review them but everything I’ve heard so far indicates they are excellent and so I’m pretty sure they’ll pass my inspection.
RAH,
Let us know whether they are any good. I am trying to talk my neighbor into home schooling their 3 year old.
Gail I unintentionally ended up teaching history to a couple of my first Granddaughters history “teachers” when she was in school by proxy through my Granddaughter and the papers I helped her write. Not all public school teachers are bad. Though they mean well they’re ignorance is sometimes just the result of the same system that was failing my Granddaughter. A couple were quite open to having the interpretations challenged when I could fill in the extensive blanks the authors of the teaching text had left.
Some years back I unintentionally ended up teaching history to some Democrat relatives of mine (other than that good, caring and loving people).
When I objected to some of their clearly false statements and laid out a few easy-to-verify facts, they challenged me with this bizarre question:
“Why do you think your sources are better than ours?”
They were teachers.
Colorado,
The reason their sources are not good is because they were paid/bribed to rewrite history by the Ford, Carnegie, Rockefeller and other foundation.
https://tabublog.com/2014/01/17/the-untold-history-of-modern-u-s-education-the-founding-fathers-2/
http://www.resurrecttherepublic.com/collectivist-free-masonic-rockefeller-carnegie-ford-foundation-subversion-of-american-history-to-implement-their-agenda/
It’s worse than that, Gail.
Our disagreement was about rather recent “history” as reflected in the Congressional record and even in MSM they read and trust. Their failure was simply an absolute inability to consider that what is said and repeated among teachers in school lounges conflicts with what actually happened in the U.S. House and Senate. They could not conceive they could be wrong.
I see the same phenomenon in other “thought bubbles” like the People’s Republic of Boulder. It’s “history” that hasn’t even been “rewritten” yet but it’s already fully formed in their heads. In their own minds my relatives were not lying or deceiving. They were convinced they were right and they were annoyed by my insistence to show them the facts but I believe they were sincerely trying to find out what’s wrong with me. They just couldn’t understand why I don’t agree with “their facts”.
This thing is completely irrational but very widespread.
Before the Progressives took hold of our schools in the early 20th century, history textbooks were thoroughly footnoted with original documentaion and firsthand acounts. The Progs threw out those textbooks and replaced them with fiction, the new books had zero foototes. They created “facts” out of thin air.
The alarmist trolls here are perfect examples of the same phenomena. If anything gets mentioned that has not been “written” or “rewritten” yet they’ll make up arguments on the fly to fit in their world view.
All of this comes back to the left in this country having an iron grip on Academia. Though great work in history is still being written I have seen a tremendous amount of ridiculous revisionist crap written by PhDs from academia.
If you will recall my very first post on this blog was an essay I had written about the history of the strategic bombing campaign of Imperial Japan. No HS history teacher I have had contact with knew anything about the fire bombings and the fact that far more Japanese were killed in those raids using conventional ordinance than the combined total from both atomic bombs. None knew that the deadliest air raid in the history of warfare was the first low level firebombing raid on Tokyo. And forget about them knowing the details about the time line and events of negotiations and the real intent of the Japanese Imperial military leadership for gaining an armistice instead of their ill gotten dominance being ended by unconditional surrender.
As for the Arctic sea ice extent I called that it would be about normal in winter 2017 all the way back just after the maximum. It wasn’t news then because there was a big bounce from the very low summer minima that was the news.
I’m guessing summer 2017 ice extent summer minimum extent will be a lot lower than 2006. ;)
Andy
The global climate scam is the direct result of a decision after WWII to unite nations and national academies of sciences under the UN on 24 OCT 1945 to save frightened world leaders from possible worldwide nuclear annihilation.
After P.K. Kuroda’s death in 2001, BBC’s report on Mrs. Kuroda’s return of Japan’s successful design for atomic bombs in 2002, and the release of Climategate emails in 2009, I went back and re-read more carefully two of my research mentor’s reports:
1. Kuroda’s 1982 book:
http://www.springer.com/us/book/9783642686696
2. Kuroda’s 1992 autobiography:
http://www.omatumr.com/abstracts2005/PKKAutobiography.pdf
Then I realized Kuroda probably risked his life to keep a personal copy of Japan’s atomic bomb design because he knew false nuclear models were promoted after WWII to hide the source of nuclear energy in atomic bombs and in cores of:
1. Heavy elements like Uranium
2. Gaseous planets like Jupiter
3. Ordinary stars like the Sun
4. Galaxies like the Milky Way
5. The expanding Universe . . .
NEUTRON REPULSION
Yukawa later became the first Japanese Nobel Laureate in physics in 1949 for the Standard Nuclear Model that ignored NEUTRON REPULSION.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hideki_Yukawa
This is fascinating but not relevant at all. How are his books connected to Climate gate? Also say nuclear energy in cores of galaxies and the Universe, but they don’t have atomic cores as such.
Andy
“How are his books connected to Climate gate?”
Another example of faked science by government…
Another time when Tony mentioned 2006
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2015/08/17/arctic-sea-ice-right-at-the-2006-minimum/
“Arctic sea ice extent at 30% concentration is currently almost flatlined right at the 2006 minimum. That was the year with the highest minimum of the past decade.The melt season is essentially done, as cold air has settled over the Arctic.”
No, it was not essensitially done, this is how 2015 turned out to 2006.
http://www.zen141854.zen.co.uk/ice2015.jpg
Always best to judge the lowest and highest values in hindsight. For the Arctic the winter maximum has less weight that than the summer minimum due to land boundaries.
Andy
“Always best to judge the lowest and highest values in hindsight”
and over the last 10 or so years , those have all being within a handshake of each other.
AND they have been WAY, WAY above the levels of pre-LIA, and probably about the same as in the 1950’s, according to newly found DOE and Russian data.
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING UNTOWARD happening with Arctic sea ice.
It is still anomalously HIGH for the current interglacial except the last several hundred years, which were the COLDEST in the last 10,000 years.
capeeeesh… ???? Need I say more…
“”Always best to judge the lowest and highest values in hindsight.””
Andy, I really don’t agree with this at all..
The extremes are the most fragile and unstable…anything can set them off one way or the other….AMO, wind, one good storm….and they jump all over the place because of that
The only place I look is around May and December….that is the only place it tells if it’s really going up or down..if they are within eyeball range then….nothing is going on
Average Arctic sea ice for last 10 years, while the AMO has been sitting near its flattish top
I’ll update it when 2017 peaks.
exactamundo….
Have you got one of those with cubic kilometers on the Y axis Andy?
Poor Jimbo, the only way he support his child-minded obsession is to ignore Arctic climate history.
IGNORANCE is his only crutch.
Question for Jimbo, the Exeter Uni arse-licker..
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Another question for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
Come on Jimbo, have the GUTS to answer.
We can now watch Jimbo squirm and worm and avoid admitting any truth about anything to do with the Arctic sea ice.
Admitting any truth is beyond him.. he lives his life as a LIE.
He is Climate Change Denier №1..
As already mentioned Andy, I’m on the University of Antarctica faculty. Not Exeter.
I’ll take that as a “No!” then shall I Andy?
Here’s one with a novel Y axis for you!
Genocide Jim pushing his 1979 scam again.
One of those Uni’s where you don’t actually have to know anything.. That is very obvious.
One of those on-line Pretend University with ZERO academic credibility.
Just the place for you Jimbo, even if you do live in Exeter.
Heck even their faculty members have zero integrity and are unable to answer basic questions about sea ice conditions, like….
Question 1 for Jimbo, the Exeter Uni arse-licker..
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
Average MEASURED sea ice extent..
vs
volume modelled by rabid AGW apostles.
hmmm.
Only a pretend on-line University would allow an ignorant twat with zero academic standing onto it faculty.
Pretty sad state of affairs for this pseudo-University if Jimbo is the sort of low-life they employ…… that is for sure.
except maybe as a janitor.
And I hope to heck that they never let you anywhere near any real students.
Even an on-line university has duty of care.
Now, Now, AndyG
Remember Jimmy Boy is a <a href="https://realclimatescience.com/2017/02/the-global-warming-scam-goes-super-cold-today/#comment-42206"<member of the faculty of the University of Antarctica
Since Jimmy Boy is not Canadian, hockey is out and the UK pretty much bans guns, so hunting (but not gathering) is out, so his speciality must be ice sculpting!
NOW we know why he is so very very good at lying about the sea ice!
And of course, with Jimbo , you can guarantte he will start at the EXTREME sea ice of 1979
The IGNORANCE and DENIAL of anything that doesn’t meet his belief in the AGW scam is just ignored.
Notice how he has disappeared now that he has some questions he doesn’t want to answer.
Sheer COWARDICE.
I’ll repeat those questions so I can be sure he hasn’t missed them. ;-)
Question 1 for Jimbo, the Ice sculptor from Antarctic university.
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
…. Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
AndyG
Jimmy Boy left to pick up his award… It’s even YELLOW!
Hey Tony,
Surely you should remind people occasionally that not all official revisions to temperature charts have been ahistorical exaggerations.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadsst3gl/from:1860/to:2014.3/mean:60/mean:36/plot/hadsst3gl/from:1860/to:2014.3/trend/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1860/to:2014.3/mean:60/mean:36/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1860/to:2014.3/trend
The change from Hadley SST2 into Hadley SST3 did not alter the long term trend, actually created a slight cooling in the 1960s/70s, and that cooling matches all your other news clippings and data about the global cooling scare better than the uncorrected version 2.
Here in central Indiana yesterday it got up to 64 F. This morning it’s 32 F with snow flurries with a low of 23 F forecast for tonight. Thus ends a 12 day run of nice spring like warmth that we’ve enjoyed for most of this month. Unfortunately it’s looking like March is going to come in like a lion and stay that way. Bring back my global warming!
Doesn’t anyone ask the most obvious question? How does Ice melt in sub-zero temperatures? The ice is melting due to the warm ocean, not the atmosphere. How does CO2 warm the ocean needs to be the question, once that is asked, the bogus claims go away. CO2 and IR between 13 and 18 microns don’t warm water.
You are assuming that logic and facts are important to leftist mass murderers. To them there is only one real driver, you are forgetting the power of the “leftist agenda”, and its ability to cause its suitors to become wilfully ignorant.
That is why the Leftist media and the US government was very very big on censorship and prosecutions. The Department of Justice has investigated more than 11,000 acts of anti-Political Correct rhetoric, which have led to 45 prosecutions.
Nice little blurb at American Thinker on the Media scream about their 1st amendment rights:
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/02/media_complaining_about_1st_amendment_rights_really.html
“February 25, 2017
Media complaining about 1st Amendment rights? Really?
By Jack Hellner
The media…
…didn’t give a darn when IRS targeted Obama’s political opponents, clearly violating their free speech and political speech rights.
…have never cared when Congress, especially Democrats, have sought to limit political speech in violation of the 1st amendment.
…didn’t care as the Justice Dept. and Democrat state A.G.s clearly threatened legal action against people who dared say the climate changes naturally, which obviously violated their free speech rights.
…had no concern at all when the Obama admin sued the Little Sisters of the Poor for daring to exercise their religious freedom.
But now they are concerned about the 1st Amendment when they are asked to tell the truth.
Maybe it would be easier to care about the media’s 1st Amendment rights if they ever cared about those who disagreed with the Democrats’ agenda.
The media…
…didn’t give a darn when IRS targeted Obama’s political opponents, clearly violating their free speech and political speech rights.
…have never cared when Congress, especially Democrats, have sought to limit political speech in violation of the 1st amendment.
…didn’t care as the Justice Dept. and Democrat state A.G.s clearly threatened legal action against people who dared say the climate changes naturally, which obviously violated their free speech rights.
…had no concern at all when the Obama admin sued the Little Sisters of the Poor for daring to exercise their religious freedom.
But now they are concerned about the 1st Amendment when they are asked to tell the truth.
Maybe it would be easier to care about the media’s 1st Amendment rights if they ever cared about those who disagreed with the Democrats’ agenda.”
And now Twatter, partially owned by Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal ,and Face plant are censoring conservatives.
There are even complaints that President Trump’s Twitter account is messed with so only comments by Progressive temper tantrums show.
They can’t win. They are being beaten and they’re too damned stupid, too lazy, too set in their ways, to understand that the jig is up.
People want immigration controlled.
They want a strong military.
They don’t want the Federal government dictating bathroom policy.
They don’t want tax dollars paying for abortion.
And they sure as hell are tired of the press dictating to them what their morality should be.
Watching how motivated the crowd at C-pac was when Trump came to speak has got to have had an effect on the RINO Never Trumpers and motivated the truly conservative members of Congress.
Obama’s National Security and Immigration Policy (again from Branco @ Legal Insurrection )
exactly…and 90% of it is underwater
It could only be the leftovers of the AMO…the only water that flows directly into the Arctic ocean
And the rest of the ice is sitting in the dark at temperatures well below freezing.
Not CO2 IR back radiation does not warm water. All it can do is aid water evaporation a tiny bit if that. It is the SUN, esp the shorter high energy wavelengths that warms the oceans.
I come to this site for what I consider valuable info. I do not appreciate the name calling. I if you are right why bother with the impolite behavior.
Interesting new paper on No tricks zone
http://notrickszone.com/2017/02/25/blockbuster-paper-finds-just-15-of-co2-growth-since-industrialization-is-due-to-human-emissions/#sthash.g6lg4WsH.m7iwfR4u.dpbs
Humans responsible for just 15% of the rise of atmospheric CO2 since 1750
Anthropogenic fraction of aCO2 is just 4.3%
That won’t go down well in climate LaLa Land. They’re probably working on a rebuttal as we speak.
Yeah butt… no butt.. yeah butt… re-butt.
At this rate this thread will have more posts than people at Donald’s inauguration !
:)
The longest Antarctic melt on record seems to be continuing…..
Very interesting, however will there be a large bounce and get as per previous years where the rate of growth has been above the satellite era average?
Andy
Just remember WHAT that melting ice represents.
“334 J of heat must be absorbed by the water…”
I think, you might have got that slightly wrong , Gail.
The energy to melt the ice is absorbed FROM the ocean.
Maybe just a wording thing ;-)
The energy that has been lost from the oceans during this 2015-2016-2017 El Nino event must be absolutely staggering !
A MAJOR ocean cooling event.
It is the wording of the article. (Confused me at first too.) That is why I posted the graph since it make it clear.
I should have included note
From the graph, it looks like it is in the same ball park as the amount of energy needed to get water up near boiling.
Still , a staggering amount of energy has been sucked from the oceans during the last couple of years.
Trying to balance with the sleepy sun, maybe ?
And also remember that the thermodynamic temperature is a property of a defined amount of matter, where the temperature is proportional to the geometric mean of the kinetic energies of that sample’s constituent atoms/molecules. NB that the total energy in the sample may be quite larger than that represented solely by the constituent’s kinetic energy.
To summarise:
1) We’re all agreed that Bruce’s February 24th 3:30 pm picture was NOT taken at the North Pole on March 17th 1959.
2) We all finally understand that, as described on the official Northern Sea Route Information Office web site:
For the first time in the NSR history, the icebreakers prolonged to January the period of operational navigation on this route that made available through pass for vessels from western to almost eastern border of the NSR waters.
LYING , yet again, et Jimbo
No , we agree that Bruce’s picture WAS taken when he says it was.
You seem to agree that less sea ice would be good, then why are you COWARDLY avoiding answering my questions?
Question 1 for Jimbo, the AGW scammer troll and LIAR
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
…. Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
RUN and HIDE, you obnoxious little worm.
Andy – In which case:
1) Do you recall that Skate’s commander mentioned:
It was almost dark, the sky was heavily overcast, and the 25 knot wind was blowing the snow so heavily that visibility was cut down to 500 yards.
2) Where’s the light coming from that’s casting those shadows?
“It was almost dark, the sky was heavily overcast, and the 25 knot wind was blowing the snow so heavily that visibility was cut down to 500 yards.”
Cut down to 500 yards… in the pitch dark. WOW. !
oops !!! Jimbo stuffs up YET AGAIN !!!
Oh poor Jimbo, your diet of sewer soaked socks is having a detrimental affect on that drug-addled mind of yours. Or perhaps sewer soaked socks is just your drug of choice. You certainly seem addicted to them.
Conclusive proof that you’re deaf, dumb and blind Andy. Once again, very slowly:
Commander Calvert said:
I t w a s a l m o s t d a r k
Not “It was pitch black”
ROFL at WP’s auto-reformatting attempt!
Question 1 for Jimbo, the AGW scammer troll and LIAR
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
…. Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
RUN and HIDE, you obnoxious little worm.
WHY are you such a COWARD , Jimbo. !!!
Andy,
1) Gail and I have already answered that question, in part at least. Why do you keep repeating it?
2) The Russians obviously think it would be beneficial!
Personally I reckon the unfortunate side effects will prove to be highly undesirable for the current homo sapiens sapiens population of coastal cities in particular. See 1.
visibility cut down to 500m…… don’t you comprehend??
No obviously not..
You truly are a proving yourself to be a dumb,moronic idiot aren’t you Jimbo, as well as being a monumental COWARD
Question 1 for Jimbo, the AGW scammer troll and LIAR
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
…. Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
RUN and HIDE, you obnoxious little worm.
You have NOT answered the questions , you have continually avoided them.. like you are now.
You aren’t saying that loss of Arctic sea ice will cause the sea level to rise, are you.?
That would be moronic and REALLY show your absolute idiocy and total lack of comprehension of anything to do with science.
But we know that already.
So is this justification for starving millions of humans annually? I’m sure the 21,000 that perished today are just really bummed they won’t hear Genocide Jim’s next ice scream.
Q: What does a radical climate terrorist say just before he snuffs out another 21,000 humans?
A: Wait for Jim’s next post, and you will see.
Jim Bob;
1) We’re all agreed that Bruce’s February 24th 3:30 pm picture was NOT taken at the North Pole on March 17th 1959.
WRONG! WE have made no such claim! Upon doing a google image search, there are a dozen or-so DIFFERENT pictures of the Skate breaking ice dated the 17th March 1959. Do you honestly think they only took ONE PICTURE of this historic event!
(just as a side-note, they didn’t only do it once, but 10 times during the historic voyage).
The picture of the Skate I posted comes directly from the US Navy’s .mil (ie: US Government) website dedicated and celebrating the 56th anniversary of the Skate’s achievement.
2) We all finally understand that, as described on the official Northern Sea Route Information Office web site:
Please explain why there are currently 3 stranded vessels (now connected to onshore power) in the Northern Sea Route and will remain there until late May or early June (or till whenever the ice melts enough for a safe passage out)? BTW Jim Bob, in case you have forgotten, they have been there since the 13th January!.
Bruce,
1) Since Andy is unable to do so perhaps you can explain what’s casting the shadows visible in your picture?
2) At the risk of repeating myself, because:
For the first time in the NSR history, the icebreakers prolonged to January the period of operational navigation on this route that made available through pass for vessels from western to almost eastern border of the NSR waters.
Here’s the map of the historic voyage from the NSRIO web site:
Where are those 3 ships now Jim Bob?
Jimbo is LYING even to himself now.
He KNOWS those three ships are STUCK in sea ice.
Wouldn’t it be great if the Russians were able to actually be able to rely on NOT getting stuck.
Less sea ice, meaning the sea lane were actually passable for more than a tiny fraction of the year, would be a huge benefit, wouldn’t you agree , Jimbo. ;-)
It is now on record that Jim Hunt is calling the US Navy a pack of liars.
http://navylive.dodlive.mil/2015/03/16/navyinnovates-arctic-operations-with-uss-skate-ssn-578/
Bruce – The caption to that picture reads “USS Skate (SSN 578) surfaces.”
It doesn’t say where or when.
Please feel free to ask the US Navy what’s casting the shadows in the picture. Ask them to calculate the angle of incidence of the mysterious source of light whilst you’re at it.
Just another thing to think about Jim Bob, hours before your photograph was taken, Commander James F. Calvert and the crew planted an American Flag in a cairn they built out of ice blocks and put a waterproof container in the cairn with a note commemorating the event.
In August 1958 Jim Bob, the USS Skate conducted the first surfacing in open-water polynyas. Fancy that! Wasn’t there supposed to be more ice back then?
No, The DOE and Russian data say the 50’s was a low point.
Probably similar to now.
Although there is NO WAY a sub is surfacing at the North Pole any time this year !!..
Unless they use a missile to blast their way trough.
I know that Andy :-) I was hoping for Captain Stupid to answer.
58-59 was also at the end of the previous positive AMO ;-)
;-)
YUPPERS, looks like the AMO is topping out and then the Arctic Sea Ice will be increasing. Time for the Warmist to shift focus to the Antarctic or to come up with a different Hobgoblin entirely.
The North Atlantic heat content that was melting the sea ice has already started falling.
Now here is a graph, that should scare the Begeezus out of anyone who can read a graph. (That lets out Griffy)
Again the North Atlantic but this time looking at the temperature at different depths.
North Atlantic 59°N transect to 800 m depth (Oslo and Sarpsborg Norway; St.Petersburg and Vologda Russia; Uppsala and Stockholm Sweden… are at 59°N )
“Time-depth temperature diagram along 59°N, 0-800 m depth, across the North Atlantic Current. Temperatures in Degrees Celcius. Source: Global Marine Argo Atlas. Latest month shown: December 2016. Last diagram update: 14 January 2017.”
ANOTHER Arctic study showing an ” increase in multiyear sea ice culminated during the past 2,500 years’ AND “The lack of uniformity in past sea-ice changes… related to large-scale atmospheric anomalies such as the Arctic Oscillation” something AndyG has been trying to pound into Warmist heads for ages.
A 10,000-Year Record of Arctic Ocean Sea-Ice Variability
The ice is certainly thicker at the North Pole than when the Skate was there in March.
(Green to yellow is 2.5 meters to 3.5 meters or 8 feet to 11.5 feet)
“The ice is certainly thicker at the North Pole than when the Skate was there in March.”
Oh no it isn’t Gail! Here’s the US Navy’s conservative ACNFS estimate for you:
Jim Hunt seems to think that 2 meters is somehow less than 3-5 feet. Funny that. Skate couldn’t surface through ice more than 5 foot thick.
Here’s the US Navy’s less conservative GOFS estimate for you Neal, plus another quote from Commander Calvert:
Skate was in a small lead completely surrounded by 10-foot-high hummocks of ice.
How about this Jim …
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ice-at-the-north-pole-in-1958-and-1959-not-so-thick.html
http://m4gw.com/33-science/326-ice_at_the_north_pole_in_1958_and_1959_-_not_so_thick
http://www.williamgairdner.com/journal/2009/12/16/us-submarines-surface-in-open-water-at-the-north-pole-in-195.html
I expect Andy will concur that polynyas in Arctic sea ice have been around since the first 3/4 of the Holocene.
OK, Jimmy Boy,
I will tackle this one while waiting for hubby to get the C-bac-T ready.
“2) What was the maximum sea level during the first 3/4 of the Holocene, relative to the first years of the Anthropocene?”
Ruddiman connects the Anthropocene with the start of agriculture.
So around 10,000 years or so ago.
What has happened to the sea level in Tectonically stable areas
Mid to late Holocene sea-level reconstruction of Southeast Vietnam using beachrock and beach-ridge deposits
Translation the sea level was up to 1.5 meters higher than today in a tectonically stable area ~5000 years ago to 2000 years ago. Tectonically stable area refers to areas devoid of deformation such as all processes which modify the external form of the crust.
Sea-level highstand recorded in Holocene shoreline deposits on Oahu, Hawaii
This study shows a sea level highstand ~1.6 meter above the present level from ~5500 years ago to 2000 years ago.
Late Quaternary highstand deposits of the southern Arabian Gulf: a record of sea-level and climate change
This study shows a sea level highstand ~1 to 2 meters above the present level about ~5500 years ago.
Seem the sea level has FALLEN since the Holocene Optimum. Why?
GLACIAL ADVANCE
A new approach for reconstructing glacier variability based on lake sediments recording input from more than one glacier January 2012
The highest glacier growth started 600 years ago prior to that most glaciers had melted away.
Ice free Arctic Ocean, an Early Holocene analogue
Temperature and precipitation history of the Arctic
VALIDATION
Sea Level Changes Past Records and Future Expectations
Gail – Thanks for some pertinent information at long last!
However, according to Wikipedia:
In January 2015, 26 of the 38 members of the International Anthropocene Working Group published a paper suggesting the Trinity test on 16 July 1945 as the starting point of the proposed new epoch.
Come on you COWARD
Answer the question . You make even more of a MOCKERY of yourself by refusing to.
Question 1 for Jimbo, the AGW scammer troll and LIAR
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
…. Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
RUN and HIDE, you obnoxious little worm.
” according to Wikipedia”
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
They created a committee of AGW apostles to come up with a propaganda change of geological era.
Thing is , they say 1945, just at the start of the major cooling era.
OOPS.bo strikes out again !!
Maybe if he turned and actually face reality, instead of constantly showing the huge yellow streak down his back he might actually see the ball !!
Question 1 for Jimbo, the AGW scammer troll and LIAR
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
…. Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
Come on COWARDLY slimy little troll..
answer if you dare.
Unanswered questions for Andy.
Gail suggests:
A sea level highstand ~1 to 2 meters above the present level about ~5500 years ago.
1) What was the population of homo sapiens sapiens in coastal cities during the first 3/4 of the Holocene?
2) Where’s the light coming from that’s casting those shadows?
Same place as to light the snow behind the guys at the back left.
See how the flare casts a very feeble shadow from the guys close on the right.
Use you brain , after you find where you left it at the bottom of your sewer.
Then maybe you can answer these questions Jimbo, if you can get rid of that massive yellow streak.
Question 1 for Jimbo, the AGW scammer troll and LIAR
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
…. Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
I specifically stated Ruddiman’s theory BTW.
NATURE: The 8,000-year-old climate puzzle: Models bolster case for early human effect on greenhouse-gas levels.
“Researchers have found new evidence to support the theory that human agriculture was changing the climate 8,000 years ago.”
I’m glad you enjoyed the joke Gail!
Wiki do provide a reference, which ultimately leads here:
http://quaternary.stratigraphy.org/workinggroups/anthropocene/
Look at Jimbo the fetid grub scurrying away from answering simple questions
A cockroach in the light.
Question 1 for Jimbo, the AGW scammer troll and LIAR
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
…. Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
Looks like they goofed then….
They are saying 1945, before CO2 could have had any effect, and just before the drop in temperatures down to 1970 cold period.
Oh dear,, poor Jimbo can’t take a trick…
Maybe he should wear a different dress next time ??
Or maybe the huge, slimy, yellow steak down his back is a big turn off.
1945 is also just before the large jump in Arctic sea ice shown by DOE and new Russian data from 1950 to the extremes of the mid 1970’s
Obviously anthropogenic, right Jimo.
Speaking of sea ice…. a couple of questions you might have the courage to answer, Jimbo… or NOT…
Question 1 for Jimbo, who can’t take a trick,
Even if the Arctic sea ice were to drop back a lot further than now, towards the pre-LIA norm, why is this a problem ?
Question 2 for Jimbo, the ignorant troll with the massive yellow streak.
Do you think it would be beneficial if Arctic sea lanes were actually open, instead of trapping ships in sea ice?
…. Or would it be more beneficial if they were closed all year like back in the extremes of 1979. ?
Gail – They didn’t goof. Their criteria require evidence that could be ascertained by future stratigraphy.
Jimbo like awards….
A yellow-back snivelling snot-picking troll.
Now with his name on the trophy
ROTFLMAO… Now I have to clean my monitor off.
Good one AndyG55
Wikipedia has long been rejected as a viable source on climate information since it has a long record of allowing non experts to eliminate substantive revisions to their information put forth by recognized experts in their fields. When it comes to climate information Wikipedia is “fake news” and will remain so until it becomes an honest purveyor of facts.
It is a place to start but most certainly not a place to end a persons investigation into available information on climate and climate studies.
360 comments! Is that some kind of record for the world’s longest pissing contest? Even though you try very hard to pretend to hate each other, a good time was had by all, especially us people reading the comments.
Tony was away @ CPAC so his attack dogs ran wild. ?
OT
Dr Lindzen’s petition to Donald Trump
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/02/25/richard-lindzen-petition-to-president-trump-withdraw-from-the-un-convention-on-climate-change/
May it be successful. :-)
More fake science…
One in five species on Earth now faces extinction, and that will rise to 50% by the end of the century unless urgent action is taken. That is the stark view of the world’s leading biologists, ecologists and economists who will gather on Monday to determine the social and economic changes needed to save the planet’s biosphere.
“The living fabric of the world is slipping through our fingers without our showing much sign of caring,” say the organisers of the Biological Extinction conference held at the Vatican this week.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/25/half-all-species-extinct-end-century-vatican-conference
So those attending the Biological Extinction conference believe there will be great extinctions? Wow! Stunning!
Gee, I wonder who the attendees of the Mickey Mouse Club consider to be their greatest mouse? We may never know, unless the Grauniad tells us.
Well, that answers the question of what the next Hobgoblin the Warmists are going to try and push.
There is just one problem. Where Are The Corpses?
However the Commies have never let reality get in the way of a good crisis if it can be used to push their agenda of a world wide totalitarian dictatorship.
I saw this article being headlined when I opened the news on my homepage and didn’t bother to click on it and read it because I generally don’t waste my time with “science’ articles that make fantastic claims of doom while having a weasel word like “could” in the title of the story. Just like in front line politics, the desperate members of Academia’s green blob will ramp up the amplitude of their claims to try and maintain their relevance. I believe that nobody in their right mind believes their BS anymore after decades of exposure to such BS. I think Nostradamus has more credibility with the chicken little crowd than the “Scientists” that produce this crap.
Of course the rapid descent into glaciation is often an extinction event so maybe that is what they are talking about.
Gail, as long as species have been evolving, species have been going extinct. It is estimated that over 99.9% of all species that ever lived are now extinct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction
List of all species that may have gone extinct since the invention of “CAGW”…
1979 – Last sightings of the Javan tiger.
1981 – The Puhielelu hibiscadelphus becomes extinct.
1981 – Last sighting of the green-blossom pearlymussel – The 24-rayed sunstar.
1985 – The platypus frog
1989 – The golden toad – The Atitlán grebe
1990 – The dusky seaside sparrow
1994 – Saint Croix racer
1997 – The Hainan ormosia
That’s ten in forty years. How many species are there? Good question!
About 8.7 million (give or take 1.3 million) is the new, estimated total number of species on Earth.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110823180459.htm
So they are predicting 4,350,000 species extinctions by 2101? Well, at the current rate, it would take much more than a century, more like 174,000 centuries, or 17,400,000 years :lol:
Alarmists just aren’t real good with numbers. Maybe instead of using models, they should try using a calculator and a brain.